Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Grabiak Performance Center
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis

Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2014, 05:53 PM   #1
11SynergyGr&Bl
JZ
 
11SynergyGr&Bl's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Synergy Green Camaro
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 175
Pfadt Rear Sway bar, holy moly, anyone else?!!??

So I've started hearing this metal clunking sound in the passenger rear of the car recently. Sway bars have been installed for over a year now. I jacked up the car to find this very sad site =( I obviously can't claim this at the dealer due to aftermarket install of parts? How do I go about getting this fixed, welding? new control arm?!

Thanks in-advance, for now taking corners slower =(
Attached Images
 
__________________
*2011 SGM Camaro*
Hi/low 8k HID kit, Injen WB long tube, Pfadt stage 2, Rx black ice-olator, Rx catch can (color matched =D).

Last edited by 11SynergyGr&Bl; 01-27-2014 at 03:13 PM. Reason: not swaybar cause fyi.
11SynergyGr&Bl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:05 PM   #2
danvillekidd
2013 ZL1
 
danvillekidd's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 m6
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Danville, IN & Panama City, FL
Posts: 716
This has happend before on the FE3 suspensions. There have been reinforcement tabs made and sold by venders, both weld in and bolt in. I don't know if they are still being sold or not. I went and upgraded to the FE4 on my SS when I had it. New GM RLCA's are only about $60 each and have provisions for both the FE3 and FE4.
danvillekidd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:28 PM   #3
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,384
Odd you didn't get the reinforcements with the Pfadt bars. My first set was their racing sways and they came with them. Later I switched to the ZL-spec bars so new RCAs and endlinks. Far better design that the FE3. As Danvillkidd stated the new RCAs are made to accommodate both suspension types. However the FE3 mount point is just as flimsy on the new arms.
__________________
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:43 PM   #4
11SynergyGr&Bl
JZ
 
11SynergyGr&Bl's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Synergy Green Camaro
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 175
I never received any reinforcement brackets =( I'll have to call them to see if I can have them shipped then. The drivers side looks fine atm, but I corners will have to wait till I get that fixed =(
__________________
*2011 SGM Camaro*
Hi/low 8k HID kit, Injen WB long tube, Pfadt stage 2, Rx black ice-olator, Rx catch can (color matched =D).
11SynergyGr&Bl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 10:56 PM   #5
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11SynergyGr&Bl View Post
I never received any reinforcement brackets =( I'll have to call them to see if I can have them shipped then. The drivers side looks fine atm, but I corners will have to wait till I get that fixed =(
http://pfadtracing.com/camaro5_insta...tructions.html

Check Camaro5 RLCA Endlink Bracket Installation, that's what you're looking for.
__________________
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 11:51 PM   #6
11SynergyGr&Bl
JZ
 
11SynergyGr&Bl's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Synergy Green Camaro
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 175
Ya never.recieved those =(
__________________
*2011 SGM Camaro*
Hi/low 8k HID kit, Injen WB long tube, Pfadt stage 2, Rx black ice-olator, Rx catch can (color matched =D).
11SynergyGr&Bl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 03:41 AM   #7
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,196
See if they might have another LCA for you as well. The Pfadts don't weld in but work well. Been running them since they came out.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech CF 102 fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 08:04 AM   #8
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,521
I want to say Pfadt stopped manufacturing the reinforcement tabs. If they do not have them I know we have some on the shelf still.

__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 11:47 AM   #9
Dexman1349
2010 2SS/RS M6
 
Dexman1349's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 1,336
They still make the tabs as I just installed them with my Sport sways about a month ago. The tabs were sold separately from my bars (~$30), but I don't know if they were supposed to be included in the more aggressive packages.

Back to the OP, I would buy new lower control arms simply because I don't know anyone who can weld. You could use this opportunity to upgrade to the FE5 LCA's and bars.

Here is a pic of the FE3 (3rd one down) and the FE5 (bottom one):


As you can see, the newer style bars connect on the outside of the springs which make for a better connection point, and hence the fact that Chevy stopped using the FE3 in 2012.
__________________
2/7/2014: 419 hp, 419 tq

Cosmetic: ZL1 front w/mailslot, painted stripes, powdercoated SS rims, tow hook, and Gary's customs bowties, painted emblems and taillight bezels

Suspension: Pfadt subframe bushings, Pfadt rear UCA bushings, Z28 Upper control arms, Spohn trailing arms with BMR trailing arm & differential bushings, ZL1 Toe Rods and springs, Prothane radius arm inserts & steering rack bushing, Pfadt Sport sways, Pfadt strut brace

Drivetrain: RMCR tune, CAI intake, Kooks headers, high-flow cats & exhaust, VMAX TB, ZL1 fuel pump, LSR Tri-Ax shifter

Bumblebee Racecar Build
Dexman1349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 12:01 PM   #10
130R
Machine Washable.
 
130R's Avatar
 
Drives: Western Digital.
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11SynergyGr&Bl View Post
Ya never.recieved those =(
Just an FYI, a large washer will do the same thing as that tab...
130R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 12:03 PM   #11
PfadtRacing
 
PfadtRacing's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro, 2006 Z06
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 3,375
11SynergyGr&Bl - Why didn't you call me and ask one of the engineers how to solve your problem? We are always here to help! Just because you spent money with us a year ago doesn't mean you can't call us and ask an expert on where to go next - our line is 888-972-2464.

Essentially you have been driving the crap out of your car and that's why it is broken - it's no fault of the sway bar. Any company's sway bar put under extreme use is going to have to transfer the force somewhere. I'd look at this as a badge of honor that you drive your Camaro like it's meant to be driven. There's only so much force that can be put on a stock vehicle before parts need repair and I am glad to see that our bars held up nicely - it was the stock mount that finally gave up.

My advice to you is get it welded up and go with a reinforcement tab from ApexChase. These things happen man, the harder you push your vehicle the more you have to strengthen things up. I for one am impressed.

-kerry@pfadt
PfadtRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 03:04 PM   #12
11SynergyGr&Bl
JZ
 
11SynergyGr&Bl's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Synergy Green Camaro
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 175
I figured you were closed Sundays, most shops are. I was going.to call today on my lunch. I was in no way blaming.the sway bar, or your products. Ive had nothing but excellent customer service from everyone there, and the springs sway bars still give me a grin when I cornor at spirited speeds ^.^. Ive raced and autocrossed for a long time and know factory products only can sustain so much. Sorry about.that.

Chase, you still have.a.pair of those? How.much? Thanks again!
__________________
*2011 SGM Camaro*
Hi/low 8k HID kit, Injen WB long tube, Pfadt stage 2, Rx black ice-olator, Rx catch can (color matched =D).
11SynergyGr&Bl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 04:11 PM   #13
caverman


 
caverman's Avatar
 
Drives: '69 SS Convertible
Join Date: May 2009
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,070
I would do the tab for a short term fix but in the long run you should switch over to the Pfadt FE4 ZL1 bars. I'm sure you can sell your FE3 bars for a reasonable amount and just put it towards he cost of the FE4. Throw in a good alignment to Pfadt's aggressive street specs and you'll be all good to go.
__________________
-2010 Camaro 2SS | M6 | VR w/White Stripes | 1 3/4" KOOKS - 3" Magnaflow | LPE 3.91 gears | ADM tuned | Halltech w/ADM Scoop | Spohn/BMR Trailing Arm/Toe Rod | BC Coilovers| Pedders FE4 ZL1 swaybars | Cradle/Diff/Radius Rod bushings | VMax TB | Morimoto Projectors | MGW shifter | Red Calipers
Build Journal
caverman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 04:43 PM   #14
Dexman1349
2010 2SS/RS M6
 
Dexman1349's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130R View Post
Just an FYI, a large washer will do the same thing as that tab...
Not unless the washer has tabs that lock along the bottom. They actually do transfer some additional weight to the LCA itself.

Here is where I got my tabs:
http://www.jdpmotorsports.com/manufa...ro-zl1-1410135
__________________
2/7/2014: 419 hp, 419 tq

Cosmetic: ZL1 front w/mailslot, painted stripes, powdercoated SS rims, tow hook, and Gary's customs bowties, painted emblems and taillight bezels

Suspension: Pfadt subframe bushings, Pfadt rear UCA bushings, Z28 Upper control arms, Spohn trailing arms with BMR trailing arm & differential bushings, ZL1 Toe Rods and springs, Prothane radius arm inserts & steering rack bushing, Pfadt Sport sways, Pfadt strut brace

Drivetrain: RMCR tune, CAI intake, Kooks headers, high-flow cats & exhaust, VMAX TB, ZL1 fuel pump, LSR Tri-Ax shifter

Bumblebee Racecar Build
Dexman1349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 05:59 PM   #15
130R
Machine Washable.
 
130R's Avatar
 
Drives: Western Digital.
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
Not unless the washer has tabs that lock along the bottom. They actually do transfer some additional weight to the LCA itself.

Here is where I got my tabs:
http://www.jdpmotorsports.com/manufa...ro-zl1-1410135
Sorry no, those do NOTHING more than a large washer will do; nothing. But if it's worth $30.00 for some peace of mind, by all means, spend the $30.00…
130R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 07:02 PM   #16
PfadtRacing
 
PfadtRacing's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro, 2006 Z06
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 3,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11SynergyGr&Bl View Post
I figured you were closed Sundays, most shops are. I was going.to call today on my lunch. I was in no way blaming.the sway bar, or your products. Ive had nothing but excellent customer service from everyone there, and the springs sway bars still give me a grin when I cornor at spirited speeds ^.^. Ive raced and autocrossed for a long time and know factory products only can sustain so much. Sorry about.that.

Chase, you still have.a.pair of those? How.much? Thanks again!
That's all great to hear. I just don't want to think you aren't getting the service that we believe you deserve. There's a lot of stuff we can't control like some of our piece part manufacturers, etc., that can hold up production, but we can always control how you are treated so please don't hesitate calling us - and you are right, we are closed Sat & Sun. Hope you get it all worked out and if you need anything call me direct at 888-972-2464 ext 103.

-Kerry

PfadtRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 07:44 PM   #17
JDP Tyler
 
JDP Tyler's Avatar
 
Drives: Chevys at the limit
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 7,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130R View Post
Sorry no, those do NOTHING more than a large washer will do; nothing. But if it's worth $30.00 for some peace of mind, by all means, spend the $30.00…
I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree.. see the small tabs that fold under and into the control arm to disperse the load? That is the reason they are better than washers, otherwise every company who makes these reinforcement brackets wouldn't have bothered to something along those lines.

Pfadt:

BMR

Granatelli


O.P,

I suggest getting a new rear lower control arm along with some reinforcement brackets. As said before, the newer style has provisions for both styles so that when/if you decide to upgrade to the FE4 style down the road, you will be one step closer. Not to mention they are cheap! Probably close to the cost of having them repaired.

Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007
JDP Tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 08:12 PM   #18
130R
Machine Washable.
 
130R's Avatar
 
Drives: Western Digital.
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 569
Says the guy trying to sell a set of brackets…

Let me guess, you haven't tried a washer of appropriate diameter and thickness, but know the aftermarket bracket works better?

All I know is when I 1st started seeing posts of the LCAs tearing, I decided to reinforce the area with an appropriate washer (thickness and diameter). After 2 years and 34K hard canyon miles (peak lateral loads of 1.2g) with the rear bar at its maximum setting, my LCA's still look new.

I agree I wouldn't repair the old LCA though; just replace it. For the cost of the arm, repairing it is more trouble than its worth...
130R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 09:00 PM   #19
Jrichards73
 
Jrichards73's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS Victory Red
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 685
The bracket hooks under the arm because the load is pulling UP on the connection, a washer will keep it from pulling OUT, but has no effect in the vertical, which is the issue.

The Newer arm has the same tabs, and they are just as weak. They are $60 apiece so not really expensive and it gives you both mounting points. I would buy the arm and then have a piece welded to the tab area.
__________________
Jrichards73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 09:23 PM   #20
130R
Machine Washable.
 
130R's Avatar
 
Drives: Western Digital.
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrichards73 View Post
The bracket hooks under the arm because the load is pulling UP on the connection, a washer will keep it from pulling OUT, but has no effect in the vertical, which is the issue.
That's an interesting point, and intuitive as to how they failure might occur, but most of the pictures I saw of actual failures showed signs of the material working in a fore/aft manner, like in these photos:




If you look at this last picture, there appears to be a moment that distorts the material in a fore/aft manner. Once that happens, the lower pivot works loose and continues to work the area opening the hole. Once enough material is removed, the top of the bracket becomes very weak and tears, allowing the end link to ultimately pull through the enlarged hole.

My contention is, a thicker washer with a larger OD reinforces the bracket so it can't deform in the first place, which is what the aftermarket brackets do, making the tabs on the aftermarket brackets irrelevant…

That said, though my washers have served the purpose quite well, I'm not an engineer. Since someone may use an inappropriate sized washer, I will concede and recommend the brackets instead… How's that?

Last edited by 130R; 01-27-2014 at 09:33 PM.
130R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 09:33 PM   #21
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130R View Post
Says the guy trying to sell a set of brackets…

Let me guess, you haven't tried a washer of appropriate diameter and thickness, but know the aftermarket bracket works better?

All I know is when I 1st started seeing posts of the LCAs tearing, I decided to reinforce the area with an appropriate washer (thickness and diameter). After 2 years and 34K hard canyon miles (peak lateral loads of 1.2g) with the rear bar at its maximum setting, my LCA's still look new.

I agree I wouldn't repair the old LCA though; just replace it. For the cost of the arm, repairing it is more trouble than its worth...
Not everyone had this issue. You may have never had of this issue, even without your washers. I didn't have a problem either but have run a set since they came out. Cheap insurance. As was pointed out, it's not as much a lateral load as it's a vertical one. A washer isn't going to help much in that instance. There were several fixes back then, from welding to bolting a new bracket in. Pfadts solution was the easiest FIX since it addresses all the possible scenarios without drilling or welding. We're all glad your washers worked for you but more than likely, it wouldn't have helped the people that had failures.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech CF 102 fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 10:08 PM   #22
Jrichards73
 
Jrichards73's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS Victory Red
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 685
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130R View Post
Since someone may use an inappropriate sized washer, I will concede and recommend the brackets instead… How's that?
I'll also agree the washer certainly helps, since you are sandwiching the metal, the bracket is only marginally better without welding them in. Of course if you can weld them in you would just grab some existing stock to use. The tabs make it idiot proof for those that can't, and hopefully stave of failure until they move on to the next cool thing...
__________________
Jrichards73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 10:55 PM   #23
sting808

 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 809
FYI

Had a pair of BMRs for sale. If I can find them... I converted to FE4 LCA and using the new style swaybars. I have my old LCA if you want them, but they are drilled out for the larger 12mm studs. I believe I may still have the BMR braces that are on them, drilled out, too. Just pay shipping and they're yours. But need the larger endlink studs so not recommended.

Here's a BMR brace that uses the older 10mm OE studs.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322735

If you weld them, the Pfadt/BMR bracket brace may not fit well if done sloppy. If you're replacing, do consider replacing both LCA and going the new style FE4 swaybar design. It's much much better than the old FE3 style, inside mount version.
sting808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 12:57 AM   #24
Rogan
No Pain No Gain
 
Rogan's Avatar
 
Drives: Yellow 5th Gen 2SS RS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SFL
Posts: 1,551
Not sure if the dealer had to take off the lower control arm to replace the half shafts and maybe they didn't bolt the endlink on hard, but I had pfadt reinforcement.

__________________
2010 2SS/RS/L99 - Headers/CAI/SWAYs/CoilOvers/Tune/Steel Braided Brake Lines/Frozen Slotted Rotors
Rogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 11:01 AM   #25
Dexman1349
2010 2SS/RS M6
 
Dexman1349's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 1,336
Whoa. Ouch. But they look like they were installed backwards. I had my tabs facing the other way...
__________________
2/7/2014: 419 hp, 419 tq

Cosmetic: ZL1 front w/mailslot, painted stripes, powdercoated SS rims, tow hook, and Gary's customs bowties, painted emblems and taillight bezels

Suspension: Pfadt subframe bushings, Pfadt rear UCA bushings, Z28 Upper control arms, Spohn trailing arms with BMR trailing arm & differential bushings, ZL1 Toe Rods and springs, Prothane radius arm inserts & steering rack bushing, Pfadt Sport sways, Pfadt strut brace

Drivetrain: RMCR tune, CAI intake, Kooks headers, high-flow cats & exhaust, VMAX TB, ZL1 fuel pump, LSR Tri-Ax shifter

Bumblebee Racecar Build
Dexman1349 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.