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Old 07-03-2014, 09:56 AM   #26
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yes thanks...I see that. I am running stock alignment as I drive this all the time on the street and would prefer less wear. Could this sidewall wear have been from that one autox (10) one minute runs in 80 degrees ambient but the tires were too low at 34 and not up higher as some on this board have said you need to do for autox??? The car was also run by an autox instructor very hard for 2 runs and then I spun around completely in another run with all nanny's off....or do you think this was totally done on a track by less than full race alignment???
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:27 AM   #27
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yes thanks...I see that. I am running stock alignment as I drive this all the time on the street and would prefer less wear. Could this sidewall wear have been from that one autox (10) one minute runs in 80 degrees ambient but the tires were too low at 34 and not up higher as some on this board have said you need to do for autox??? The car was also run by an autox instructor very hard for 2 runs and then I spun around completely in another run with all nanny's off....or do you think this was totally done on a track by less than full race alignment???
IMO -

AutoX is brutal on front tires with heavy cars. It has to rotate a 4000lb object instantly, with essentially 1 front tire. You often have to run 40lb in the fronts on heavy cars to avoid tire damage.

You must also "give it up" more before corners. Smooth braking, but a LOT of it is required. Trail braking in AutoX is a no-no, you will understeer.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:45 AM   #28
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yes thanks...I see that. I am running stock alignment as I drive this all the time on the street and would prefer less wear. Could this sidewall wear have been from that one autox (10) one minute runs in 80 degrees ambient but the tires were too low at 34 and not up higher as some on this board have said you need to do for autox??? The car was also run by an autox instructor very hard for 2 runs and then I spun around completely in another run with all nanny's off....or do you think this was totally done on a track by less than full race alignment???
Hard to say with certainty. McRat makes excellent points. I have sidewall wear on my outboard rear (RR tire/CCW track) from running a bit too low pressures - 29-30 psi.

Camber does not accelerate wear during street driving, it's a common misconception. I have a friend who has 18k street miles on a set of Trofeos running -3.5 front camber.
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Old 07-05-2014, 06:27 PM   #29
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Just bought 4 S-04s to mount on my OEM extra set of wheels and sensors I bought.
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:35 PM   #30
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Just bought 4 S-04s to mount on my OEM extra set of wheels and sensors I bought.
Nice choice for the street! I hope to have the Yokohama AD08-Rs mounted by the end of this week, and will report my thoughts back to this thread...
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:39 PM   #31
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I have the tool now, it says we just hold it to the tire and go to the DIC menu and the owners manual shows how to train the sensors.
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:44 PM   #32
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I have the tool now, it says we just hold it to the tire and go to the DIC menu and the owners manual shows how to train the sensors.
It's actually a lot quicker and easier than I thought. It would still be nice if they'd use one of the newer systems that automatically recognize a second set -- but this will do for now...
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:51 PM   #33
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As mcrat pointed out...You can copy the sensor data to the other set so you do not need the tool when swapping.
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:16 AM   #34
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No, I think not. From what I understand each sensor has its own code, so if the car learns the ones on the car, then install new the new Tire sensors need to be learned, the car will not know the old ones when I put them back on, also you have to use the tool if you rotate tires right left front rear. We can only do right left on the Z28. That's the way I understand how it works, I may be wrong? Because if the other set of tires are sitting by my car, how does the DIC know what to display and where?
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:30 AM   #35
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No, I think not. From what I understand each sensor has its own code, so if the car learns the ones on the car, then install new the new Tire sensors need to be learned, the car will not know the old ones when I put them back on, also you have to use the tool if you rotate tires right left front rear. We can only do right left on the Z28. That's the way I understand how it works, I may be wrong? Because if the other set of tires are sitting by my car, how does the DIC know what to display and where?

I'm interested to know. My old 2011 ram 1500 learned two different sets. I had stockers I ran in winter and 22s in the summer. I could swap tires all around the truck or back and forth to summer to winters and it knew exactly was going on all the time. Never had to relearn. Wonder if the Maro is the same
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:53 AM   #36
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SOME sensors have the ability to be cloned. Not sure which ones.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:36 AM   #37
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brt - thanks for the tire review.


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What the heck do all the numbers on the tire wall mean if the contact patch to the ground varies like that?
The "size" numbers only pertain to the tire's maximum section width (taken at the maximum sidewall width. They are really just "nominal" size numbers, and there is some official amount of tolerance from there. I've heard this tolerance to be 7%, but I don't know if that's 7% either way or 7% from max under to max over.

That's separate from the effect that wheel width has on actual measured section width, which amounts to about 40% of the difference between actual wheel width and the tire size's "measuring width" wheel.

Embossed sidewall numbers have never had anything to do with the actual tread width at the contact patch.


As far as TPMS on a track day tire & wheel setup goes - does anybody really pay attention to the TPMS when they're out there on the track at speed? You aren't likely to hear any little beep with a full-face helmet on and the windows open at 100+ mph or at WOT in the lower gears.


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Old 07-06-2014, 10:21 AM   #38
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Tested the BFG Rivals yesterday on a raceweight 4100 lb Chevy Volt FWD (fronts only).

YEEE HAAWW for a 200 Treadwear. Sticky bastards! Good feel. First set base times on OEM 215-17's at consistent 78 second laps. Then the 225 Rival punked that to 71 seconds. Never seen a tire make that much difference, ever.

Sadly, unless you're willing to go 315/30-18 + 335/30-18 you are out of luck.

Yes, you are right. A 4100lb, 150HP Volt is not a 4100lb, 505HP Camaro. But nearly ALL the load is on the fronts. Those skinny ass tires were being abused.

Funny sidebar. A guy showed up in a Godzilla (Nissan GT-R). His best times were in the 72's. I know this because he came up to me and my daughter during the event and was stunned by The Silent Death. Funny shiit! Nice guy, new to AutoX. "Harder than it looks!"... No shiit?
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2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3.
And a bunch of Duramaxes.

Last edited by McRat; 07-06-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:35 AM   #39
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Jump on Lateral-g.net a few guys are having issues with the Rivals delaminating or just get a hold of Keith at Custom Works Products.


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Old 07-06-2014, 10:41 AM   #40
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Jump on Lateral-g.net a few guys are having issues with the Rivals delaminating or just get a hold of Keith at Custom Works Products.


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I'll do more research, but from what I understand, the Rivals are Street-Class AutoX tires. For 2015, tires must be TW 200.

They were sticky Lap One, with the glaze still on them. Like A6's. They might not like a lot of heat.
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress
2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness.
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2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3.
And a bunch of Duramaxes.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:42 AM   #41
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Uh, where is the link to the delam Rivals?

Thanks!
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress
2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness.
2010 ZR1 "Satan" no times yet.
2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3.
And a bunch of Duramaxes.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:54 AM   #42
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Z/28: Let's Talk Tires!

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Uh, where is the link to the delam Rivals?

Thanks!

Found it and trust me Keith runs his cars hard

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...t=46576&page=2


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Old 07-06-2014, 11:06 AM   #43
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Oh Lordy. That radial cut is what it looks like, a cut. Don't know what he ran over, but he ran over something. There is no radial seam in a tire.

That "delam" on the side is because he did not race correctly. Modern tires use 2 kinds of rubber. What you see is the sticky rubber tread vs the hard rubber base. True for all true street tires.

Looks like folk on that site hate BFG's for some reason.

I'm not brand loyal though when it comes to tires, I've run a lot of tires, on a lot of vehicles, in many different kinds of competition.

I'm no expert. I'm a hobby racer with a lot seat time. If My Car Ever Arrives, I'll run the Rival 18's and see what's up. Trofeo's (illegal) vs. Rivals (Legal).
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress
2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness.
2010 ZR1 "Satan" no times yet.
2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3.
And a bunch of Duramaxes.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:08 AM   #44
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Actually almost everyone on the site runs bfg's. I plan to watch the thread to see its outcome


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Old 07-06-2014, 11:37 AM   #45
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I've seen that line on bias tires (on an angle, and I went over 200mph with that line), but not radials yet. So I may be ignorant. But I don't think that's delam.

I will try and hunt up my Delam of Death video to show what delam does. There is also a "chunking" video. I sent tires to Standard Testing Labs, Inc, to verify tires before Bonneville. The Delam Radial video is great. The tire exploded on the testing machine.

Unless somebody is Chunking (pieces of tread rubber rip off), I would not worry.

I see the same side block line on the Volt's Rivals passenger side. But I looped the car at over 60mph, a full rev and half. It tore into the side block and shows the line between the two compounds.

I will admit I've only ran a dozen or so BFG race tires. I have more experience with other brands.

Like I said, I'm a Professional Amateur. I've wrecked a LOT of tires on a lot of vehicles. Mostly because I suck.

But what I saw in that thread would not worry me. I've seen it before with the side blocks, but never on the tread of a street tires. I have seen that with a bias tire, but after calling Mickey Thompson's race engineer, I ran with it with no problems.
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2002 Z06 "Blue Meanie" 11.36 ET
2003 Z06 in progress
2009 CTS-V "Spooky" 12.36 ET, bone stock at 1600 mi. Rainy day in Sacramento. Sadness.
2010 ZR1 "Satan" no times yet.
2013 Volt SCCA Solo2 #771 HS3.
And a bunch of Duramaxes.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:17 PM   #46
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I'm interested to know. My old 2011 ram 1500 learned two different sets. I had stockers I ran in winter and 22s in the summer. I could swap tires all around the truck or back and forth to summer to winters and it knew exactly was going on all the time. Never had to relearn. Wonder if the Maro is the same
What happens if you rotate them? Yes if the sensor is cloned, then you just swap and no big deal. But our owners manual says if we change sensors we have to learn the sensor.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:28 PM   #47
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My car is white and white is always supposed to hide dirt better but after washing her I take a speed run to dry and in 2 miles she is dirty again back on the lower door and rear fenders.

Hopefully Skylane is working on a kit to run these http://goo.gl/JvHUrj
Wheres the logic in that? White does "NOT" hide dirt better its the fastest color to show dirt...Mid colors are better dirt camouflage , gun metal grey etc.....
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:29 PM   #48
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Yes a sensor can be cloned, but you need the number off the one that's in the tire you are changing. I do not want to break all the tires down. So I will just lure the new tire. It takes a more costly coning tool to do it. It's good for shops to do it, because it takes less time to clone than learn.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #49
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brt - thanks for the tire review...

As far as TPMS on a track day tire & wheel setup goes - does anybody really pay attention to the TPMS when they're out there on the track at speed? You aren't likely to hear any little beep with a full-face helmet on and the windows open at 100+ mph or at WOT in the lower gears.
When I'm on-track I'm alternating between oil temp & pressure and TPMS. The Trofeo Rs have a fairly narrow window, regarding optimal pressure, and running in high temperatures makes it very hard to get this just right. The "do not exceed" pressure is 34, and optimal is 32. So, yes -- I often have the TPMS screen up when I'm on the track...
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:50 PM   #50
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When I'm on-track I'm alternating between oil temp & pressure and TPMS. The Trofeo Rs have a fairly narrow window, regarding optimal pressure, and running in high temperatures makes it very hard to get this just right. The "do not exceed" pressure is 34, and optimal is 32. So, yes -- I often have the TPMS screen up when I'm on the track...


Ditto for me

Tire temp on TPMS is the primary thing I watch when on track. Too high psi, I end the session. Oil temp I watch for curiosity knowing I'm going to get two indications (A/C cutoff, then a warning light) if it gets hot.
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