Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
BeckyD@RodgersChevrolet
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V8


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2014, 06:58 PM   #18
Ret Fuzz
 
Ret Fuzz's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 249
Good luck with your choice.

Autocross is about handling and linear torque. Make your decision based on that .

I love my eforce and have over 33k on it .
__________________
2010 SS LS3 Eforce 3.25 pulley BTR Stage 3 Innovative 10% Overdrive Mcleod RXT Twin Disk ID 850 ZL1 Fuel Pump ADM FPCM MSD wires NGK Plugs Alky Control Meth Kit Trunk Mount
JBA long tubes No Cats Borla Exhaust

tuned by

http://www.slowhawkperformance.com/
Ret Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 10:59 PM   #19
Itsmeagain
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: OC
Posts: 56
I am leaning heavily on the E Force and can get it at a smoking deal $6200 delivered to my door. But I live on Cali so I can not retune or it voids the carb, I would love to run it with headers and an intake but once again there goes the carb... So I have to run the unit bone stock. And besides I don't want the hassle of changing parts every smog and retuning all the time.

What is the heart beat??? Is that just the Magnuson?
Itsmeagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 11:04 PM   #20
mlee
Charter Circle Member
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: Number Twenty-Three
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 27,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain View Post
I am leaning heavily on the E Force and can get it at a smoking deal $6200 delivered to my door. But I live on Cali so I can not retune or it voids the carb, I would love to run it with headers and an intake but once again there goes the carb... So I have to run the unit bone stock. And besides I don't want the hassle of changing parts every smog and retuning all the time.

What is the heart beat??? Is that just the Magnuson?
Heartbeat is a new Magnuson blower and an excellent choice.

If my only choice was an E-Force I'd stay Naturally Aspirated.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 12:29 AM   #21
Itsmeagain
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: OC
Posts: 56
What do you mean by that? Stay naturally aspirated? The Edelbrock E Force is not a good choice compared to Magnuson???

In this thread there are about 5 or so people that praise this kit? So I don't really understand why you say that? The numbers between the edelbroxk and the Maggie are very very close ok a stock application.
Itsmeagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:40 AM   #22
on3wego
 
on3wego's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 zl1 triple black
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 441
Heartbeat has my vote getting one myself
on3wego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:04 AM   #23
realcanuk
 
realcanuk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Corvette C6 983 RWHP
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-E View Post
How about customers in Australia that already spent $9000 on a blower spending nearly $11000 to get a heartbeat ?..
I am happy for them that they have money to spend. Like I said, I don't doubt the heartbeat is a great blower, I just haven't yet seen proof its any better or more efficient then the Eforce.
The eforce has been around a while now and has proved to be trouble free, while making decent power. If someone wants really big power, or plans to go that route later, neither the eforce or heartbeat are the right choice for them. Of the two in question, I think it comes down to personal preference.

If you have some actual logs, results, or proof that the heartbeat makes better power or runs cooler, please post it up. I keep hearing that story but never seeing any proof.
__________________
2007 C6 vert, auto, F55, LT3
LME LS402 , WCCH 245 Heads, Pat G. Custom cam
YSI / 3.0 pulley, ARH 1 7/8 headers, NPP
Dewitts / dual spals, A&A dual pump fuel system.
3.42 polished gears, hardened shafts, Alky control meth, Cartech line lock, ECS axle loops, Trans brace, 6L80 built by me.
ID 1000 injectors, comp rockers, Morel lifters, BT springs, Trend 3/8 pushrods, ATI 10% OD Damper
Circle D Triple Disc stall
1009 RWHP @ 7000, 817 RWTQ @ 6000, Built & Tuned by Seth at FEDERAL PERFORMANCE
realcanuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:05 AM   #24
realcanuk
 
realcanuk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Corvette C6 983 RWHP
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
Heartbeat is a new Magnuson blower and an excellent choice.

If my only choice was an E-Force I'd stay Naturally Aspirated.
Pretty dumb statement. I have yet to meet many eforce owners who are not happy with the decision.
__________________
2007 C6 vert, auto, F55, LT3
LME LS402 , WCCH 245 Heads, Pat G. Custom cam
YSI / 3.0 pulley, ARH 1 7/8 headers, NPP
Dewitts / dual spals, A&A dual pump fuel system.
3.42 polished gears, hardened shafts, Alky control meth, Cartech line lock, ECS axle loops, Trans brace, 6L80 built by me.
ID 1000 injectors, comp rockers, Morel lifters, BT springs, Trend 3/8 pushrods, ATI 10% OD Damper
Circle D Triple Disc stall
1009 RWHP @ 7000, 817 RWTQ @ 6000, Built & Tuned by Seth at FEDERAL PERFORMANCE
realcanuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 10:41 AM   #25
Itsmeagain
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: OC
Posts: 56
Well what would make really big power but is legal in California? The whipple?
Itsmeagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:57 AM   #26
realcanuk
 
realcanuk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Corvette C6 983 RWHP
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain View Post
Well what would make really big power but is legal in California? The whipple?
Define "really big".
__________________
2007 C6 vert, auto, F55, LT3
LME LS402 , WCCH 245 Heads, Pat G. Custom cam
YSI / 3.0 pulley, ARH 1 7/8 headers, NPP
Dewitts / dual spals, A&A dual pump fuel system.
3.42 polished gears, hardened shafts, Alky control meth, Cartech line lock, ECS axle loops, Trans brace, 6L80 built by me.
ID 1000 injectors, comp rockers, Morel lifters, BT springs, Trend 3/8 pushrods, ATI 10% OD Damper
Circle D Triple Disc stall
1009 RWHP @ 7000, 817 RWTQ @ 6000, Built & Tuned by Seth at FEDERAL PERFORMANCE
realcanuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 03:24 PM   #27
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,235
California has a little more regulations than most other states but if a car is tuned properly by a good tuner just about any forced induction system can pass emissions tests.

All of the TVS 2.3 roots blowers use the exact same rotors produced by Eaton. This includes the E-force, the LS9 on the ZR1 Corvette, Magnacharger, Heartbeat and many other superchargers built for other brands of cars. The difference between these blowers is all related to the airflow design and the cooling capacity of the intercooler(s) built into the supercharger. Better airflow always equals more power, this is why we do porting on heads, put in bigger cams and throtle bodies, to get better airflow. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at the internal design of a blower and see some have rounded flowing chambers and lids and some have square and boxy chambers and lids. This all effects airflow.

As you drive the blower faster it makes more heat. The ability of the blower to transfer the heat to the cooling system and still pass a large volume of air through the coolers always determine the upper limit of the performance capability of a blower. If you don't plan on running the blower at its limits these issues don't matter a bit. Any one of the blowers mentioned above can give you 550whp without breaking a sweat. But if you start trying to make 800whp with a 2.3 blower it is going to get down right impossible with some of these blowers because you cannot get the amount of air the engine needs crammed through the intercoolers at a reasonable temperature.

The Heartbeat is the newest kid on the block and Magnuson did a lot of research into the issues I have described in the above paragraphs and they made a better blower. I have already seen the maximum amount of boost some folks are running through this blower and it is above what the others will run. Try to run 17 pounds of boost through an E-force and tell me how that works for you, people are doing it without any trouble the Heartbeat. I'm swapping a heartbeat onto my car right now and within a couple of weeks I should be able to put up some numbers on the difference in maximum power between a Heartbeat and a LS9 blower at least.

I have had 5 different superchargers on different cars I have owned and just going by evaluation of the design features, I would recommend the Heartbeat.
__________________
ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air intercooler, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar, Hurst line lock, braided brake & clutch lines, Motul 660 and Porterfield R4 pads, racingbrake rotors. LPE nitrous controller. rwhp TBD...
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 04:48 PM   #28
realcanuk
 
realcanuk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Corvette C6 983 RWHP
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
California has a little more regulations than most other states but if a car is tuned properly by a good tuner just about any forced induction system can pass emissions tests.

All of the TVS 2.3 roots blowers use the exact same rotors produced by Eaton. This includes the E-force, the LS9 on the ZR1 Corvette, Magnacharger, Heartbeat and many other superchargers built for other brands of cars. The difference between these blowers is all related to the airflow design and the cooling capacity of the intercooler(s) built into the supercharger. Better airflow always equals more power, this is why we do porting on heads, put in bigger cams and throtle bodies, to get better airflow. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at the internal design of a blower and see some have rounded flowing chambers and lids and some have square and boxy chambers and lids. This all effects airflow.

As you drive the blower faster it makes more heat. The ability of the blower to transfer the heat to the cooling system and still pass a large volume of air through the coolers always determine the upper limit of the performance capability of a blower. If you don't plan on running the blower at its limits these issues don't matter a bit. Any one of the blowers mentioned above can give you 550whp without breaking a sweat. But if you start trying to make 800whp with a 2.3 blower it is going to get down right impossible with some of these blowers because you cannot get the amount of air the engine needs crammed through the intercoolers at a reasonable temperature.

The Heartbeat is the newest kid on the block and Magnuson did a lot of research into the issues I have described in the above paragraphs and they made a better blower. I have already seen the maximum amount of boost some folks are running through this blower and it is above what the others will run. Try to run 17 pounds of boost through an E-force and tell me how that works for you, people are doing it without any trouble the Heartbeat. I'm swapping a heartbeat onto my car right now and within a couple of weeks I should be able to put up some numbers on the difference in maximum power between a Heartbeat and a LS9 blower at least.

I have had 5 different superchargers on different cars I have owned and just going by evaluation of the design features, I would recommend the Heartbeat.
I cant wait to see the results of your blower swap. Please post them up for us to see. So far the 2 detailed threads I can find on heartbeat installs are both on caddys. Both made unimpressive power on big boost numbers, and both had IATS higher than I see on my eforce.
People may think I am pushing the eforce but I am not. I am hoping that the claim of more power and lower IAT's with the heartbeat is true, in which case I might consider a swap myself. So far what I have seen doesn't support the claims though.
__________________
2007 C6 vert, auto, F55, LT3
LME LS402 , WCCH 245 Heads, Pat G. Custom cam
YSI / 3.0 pulley, ARH 1 7/8 headers, NPP
Dewitts / dual spals, A&A dual pump fuel system.
3.42 polished gears, hardened shafts, Alky control meth, Cartech line lock, ECS axle loops, Trans brace, 6L80 built by me.
ID 1000 injectors, comp rockers, Morel lifters, BT springs, Trend 3/8 pushrods, ATI 10% OD Damper
Circle D Triple Disc stall
1009 RWHP @ 7000, 817 RWTQ @ 6000, Built & Tuned by Seth at FEDERAL PERFORMANCE
realcanuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:42 PM   #29
yenkostyle
 
yenkostyle's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 SS/RS 2015 1LE
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 163
Here is a thread on the heartbeat. Seeing how they have not released a kit for the SS yet its difficult to get much info on them.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346187

I can't wait to see some solid info and testing on this supercharger.
yenkostyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:48 PM   #30
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by realcanuk View Post
I cant wait to see the results of your blower swap. Please post them up for us to see. So far the 2 detailed threads I can find on heartbeat installs are both on caddys. Both made unimpressive power on big boost numbers, and both had IATS higher than I see on my eforce.
People may think I am pushing the eforce but I am not. I am hoping that the claim of more power and lower IAT's with the heartbeat is true, in which case I might consider a swap myself. So far what I have seen doesn't support the claims though.
Just looking at your signature, you are getting a lot of power out of the eforce, I would not say a 2.75 upper and a 10% lower are pushing any 2.3 blower to the limits. You are spinning your blower around 21,000 rpm if your limiter is @6500. You have a very good longblock to get those kind of numbers.

I will put the numbers up on the Heartbeat when it is done. I suspect I will be able to spin it a little faster before the power drops off and this will translate into more peak horsepower. My LS9 blower made a peak of 835 no matter what combination of pulleys I ran on the car. I could show more boost on the gauge but the boost was coming from hot air rather than more air and to make more power you have got to get more air in the engine. Couple weeks and it should be on the dyno.
__________________
ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air intercooler, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar, Hurst line lock, braided brake & clutch lines, Motul 660 and Porterfield R4 pads, racingbrake rotors. LPE nitrous controller. rwhp TBD...
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:53 PM   #31
realcanuk
 
realcanuk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Corvette C6 983 RWHP
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
Just looking at your signature, you are getting a lot of power out of the eforce, I would not say a 2.75 upper and a 10% lower are pushing any 2.3 blower to the limits. You are spinning your blower around 21,000 rpm if your limiter is @6500. You have a very good longblock to get those kind of numbers.

I will put the numbers up on the Heartbeat when it is done. I suspect I will be able to spin it a little faster before the power drops off and this will translate into more peak horsepower. My LS9 blower made a peak of 835 no matter what combination of pulleys I ran on the car. I could show more boost on the gauge but the boost was coming from hot air rather than more air and to make more power you have got to get more air in the engine. Couple weeks and it should be on the dyno.


Actually according to my calculations the eforce is spinning just under 20000 at 6800 rpm. On the dyno the power stays right at 780 to 6700 which is as far as I pushed it. My 780 is through an auto and a stall so it would be a little higher with a stick.
I am sure the heartbeat will be awesome. I look forward to the results.
__________________
2007 C6 vert, auto, F55, LT3
LME LS402 , WCCH 245 Heads, Pat G. Custom cam
YSI / 3.0 pulley, ARH 1 7/8 headers, NPP
Dewitts / dual spals, A&A dual pump fuel system.
3.42 polished gears, hardened shafts, Alky control meth, Cartech line lock, ECS axle loops, Trans brace, 6L80 built by me.
ID 1000 injectors, comp rockers, Morel lifters, BT springs, Trend 3/8 pushrods, ATI 10% OD Damper
Circle D Triple Disc stall
1009 RWHP @ 7000, 817 RWTQ @ 6000, Built & Tuned by Seth at FEDERAL PERFORMANCE
realcanuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 12:01 AM   #32
mlee
Charter Circle Member
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: Number Twenty-Three
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 27,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain View Post
What do you mean by that? Stay naturally aspirated? The Edelbrock E Force is not a good choice compared to Magnuson???

In this thread there are about 5 or so people that praise this kit? So I don't really understand why you say that? The numbers between the edelbroxk and the Maggie are very very close ok a stock application.
Meaning I would not put a supercharger on my car if the only choice was E-Force. You'll get way more bang for your buck choosing ANY of the others.

I understand you may have limited choices in CA but if the Whipple or Heartbeat is one of them this really isn't a choice.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 08:21 AM   #33
H-E
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 zr1 Camaro 2011 vert
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: everywhere
Posts: 1,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by realcanuk View Post
Actually according to my calculations the eforce is spinning just under 20000 at 6800 rpm. On the dyno the power stays right at 780 to 6700 which is as far as I pushed it. My 780 is through an auto and a stall so it would be a little higher with a stick.
I am sure the heartbeat will be awesome. I look forward to the results.
Do you have a Camaro with an e force?...your 780hp is Canadian hp right?..jk
H-E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 08:59 AM   #34
realcanuk
 
realcanuk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Corvette C6 983 RWHP
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 631
Yes. Purely Canadian HP. As you know it's not a camaro, it's what camaros want to be when they grow up. Same results though.
__________________
2007 C6 vert, auto, F55, LT3
LME LS402 , WCCH 245 Heads, Pat G. Custom cam
YSI / 3.0 pulley, ARH 1 7/8 headers, NPP
Dewitts / dual spals, A&A dual pump fuel system.
3.42 polished gears, hardened shafts, Alky control meth, Cartech line lock, ECS axle loops, Trans brace, 6L80 built by me.
ID 1000 injectors, comp rockers, Morel lifters, BT springs, Trend 3/8 pushrods, ATI 10% OD Damper
Circle D Triple Disc stall
1009 RWHP @ 7000, 817 RWTQ @ 6000, Built & Tuned by Seth at FEDERAL PERFORMANCE
realcanuk is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.