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Old 04-11-2008, 12:23 AM   #1
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Flex-fuel?

I can't see GM not making the 5th-gen flex fuel capable? I think it's ultra important for car makers to offer cars that are capable of running on alternative fuels and increasing the number of diesel options available to consumers. Getting away from gas is definitely something we need to do.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:30 AM   #2
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i agree. in fact, flex-fuel is one of the biggest reasons i'm waiting for the 'maro and not getting a goat. i want my muscle to last!
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Old 04-11-2008, 03:19 PM   #3
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I agree. I would feel really good about driving a Flex-Fuel pony car.
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:40 PM   #4
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There is no reason not to do it. If people don't want it, they don't need to buy E85. The increased costs are marginal, slightly more expensive parts for a few things but nothing major
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:34 PM   #5
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I just hope they start opening up more E85 stations in my area.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:55 PM   #6
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I want to see the new Camaro be E85 capable.

Actually I'd like to know what it cost to make this gas because it's more combustable than regualar unleaded. I want to know what's taking so long to make it available. Then I also here that corn costs a lot too. What gives?

Any one got some articles or expert knowledge on this stuff?
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:29 PM   #7
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I personally couldn't care less about E85, I want cellulosic ethanol (if you haven't noticed ready, I'm quite a "C85" fanboy)!!! E85 is bad for us and doesn't work so well in the real world.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:07 PM   #8
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I personally couldn't care less about E85, I want cellulosic ethanol (if you haven't noticed ready, I'm quite a "C85" fanboy)!!! E85 is bad for us and doesn't work so well in the real world.
chemically they are no different -85% ethanol 15% gasoline. Cellulose is a feedstock to produce ethanol, just like corn is. So "C85" could stand for corn as much as cellulose. so how about CE85 as a name? GAH - could still be Corn Ethanol. How about we change the spelling of corn to korn (not to be confused with the band KoRn)
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:25 PM   #9
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chemically they are no different -85% ethanol 15% gasoline. Cellulose is a feedstock to produce ethanol, just like corn is. So "C85" could stand for corn as much as cellulose. so how about CE85 as a name? GAH - could still be Corn Ethanol. How about we change the spelling of corn to korn (not to be confused with the band KoRn)
I understand that. I included the "C" because to me that represents cellulose.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:43 PM   #10
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I would love to have a flex fuel camaro! but please, not with a diesel
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
I want to see the new Camaro be E85 capable.

Actually I'd like to know what it cost to make this gas because it's more combustable than regualar unleaded. I want to know what's taking so long to make it available. Then I also here that corn costs a lot too. What gives?

Any one got some articles or expert knowledge on this stuff?
As I understand it, the cost of production is around $1/gal. On top of that there are taxes and profits. In the end, it costs a bit more to fuel up on E85 because of reduced economy. The reason it is taking so long is because gas stations need to do large overhauls to handle the more corrosive fuel. That and there isn't much availible, for two reasons 1) most gets used in E10, and 2) not enough stations to sell E85, so why produce it! It is more popular in the midwest where the corn is grown.


And scotsman, I figured you knew what you were talking about but there may have been others who read your post and get confused. I agree 100% though, corn ethanol bad, cellulose ethanol good.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
I want to see the new Camaro be E85 capable.

Actually I'd like to know what it cost to make this gas because it's more combustable than regualar unleaded. I want to know what's taking so long to make it available. Then I also here that corn costs a lot too. What gives?

Any one got some articles or expert knowledge on this stuff?
Well, here's portions of what I know as they relate to your post...

I don't know that it's "more combustible", but it does hold less energy than gasoline. It may be possible to adjust the engine to more efficiently extract that energy, which could result in real-world results that are pretty much even with gasoline. The real advantages, though, are that it's renewable so it will never have to run out and that (in the US) it supports local farmers who otherwise have get paid by the government to NOT grow stuff, a tremendous waste of money and people.

Corn doesn't really cost that much, food prices are so high because energy prices are so high. There's a couple ethanol discussions over on gmfullsize.com where we've got some farmers who actually grow the stuff and they have a pretty thorough understanding of the market, and that's where that info came from.

However, there's a couple problems with corn as ethanol. One is that they don't use the whole plant, just the kernel. They're throwing away large amounts of energy that way. Another is that corn just isn't the most efficient plant for the job. Sugar cane, where the climate permits, makes much more ethanol, but there are other options. Soybeans have been proposed, and I suspect that sugar beets might be pretty good too.

Personally, I think we should be looking to the waste stream for energy sources and materials to be converted into fuel. Those are two separate things; converting biomass into fuel often uses as much or more energy than the fuel delivers, which means that the fuel is really a storage medium, not an energy source. That's fine with me, because what I want is liquid fuel for internal combustion engines; I really enjoy driving that type of vehicle and want there to always be fuel. The energy can be produced whatever way we want, and we'll always find a way to produce energy.

Anyway, back to the waste stream. Much of it can be turned into energy. Any biomatter, of course, can; there is a company that makes biodiesel out of turkey giblets from a turkey-trimming factory. More interestingly, there's a company making biodiesel out of algae semi-naturally growing on sewage retention ponds; they get the algae started and then don't have to put money or effort in, the algae eats up the sewage leaving nearly-clean water, and the end result is easy to convert into biodiesel.

I keep mentioning biodiesel, because that's where more R&D is going, but I'm pretty sure anything that can be made into biodiesel can be made into ethanol with a little more effort.

For other energy sources, there are the usual candidates -- solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, ocean wave, nuclear, etc. I fear that the end of fossil fuels, if it really happens, is going to happy very suddenly; and in that case, I bet nuclear will end up being used, because it will probably be the quickest and cheapest way to get a lot of energy. I don't really mind which one it is, but that seems most likely to me.
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:51 PM   #13
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See the things is, it probably won't be any one thing, I think we're learning not to depend on a "sole provider" as that hasn't worked out for us and has put us in a real crunch in more ways than one. So more than likely there will be several solutions when it comes to choosing a power source for alternative propulsion and fueling.
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Old 04-12-2008, 02:23 PM   #14
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See the things is, it probably won't be any one thing, I think we're learning not to depend on a "sole provider" as that hasn't worked out for us and has put us in a real crunch in more ways than one. So more than likely there will be several solutions when it comes to choosing a power source for alternative propulsion and fueling.
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:49 PM   #15
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more than likely there will be several solutions when it comes to choosing a power source
That would be really great.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:40 PM   #16
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Didn't father once say to forget everything we know about engines?

How's this sound: Flex Fuel Hybrid V-8???? I likey....
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:22 PM   #17
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\Flex Fuel Hybrid V-8???? I likey....
Hybrid? How bout diesel.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:40 PM   #18
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Didn't father once say to forget everything we know about engines?

How's this sound: Flex Fuel Hybrid V-8???? I likey....
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Hybrid? How bout diesel.
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:04 AM   #19
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Hummmmm????? I don't know about anyone here but I for one do not think ethanol is as wonderful as we've been told. I know in my "06 3.9 V6, my milage drops from 31 highway to 27-28 highway using E10. I have been told by others who can use E85 their mileage drops around 20%, Now, what makes this so wonderful if you use more fuel going from A to B?????? Plus food costs are shooting up.
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:17 AM   #20
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Once Ethanol gets down in cost, it will more than make up for the drop in mileage. The fuel has less energy in it than gasoline, so you won't go as far on a gallon; that was known since the beginning (just not a flaunted fact, you know?)

But at a buck a gallon.....plus once engines begin to be tailored more for Ethanol, efficiency will go up and that mileage decrease will shrink....I think it becomes more worth it.

Ethanol is only in it's baby stages, there's still Cellulosic ethanol that needs to come online. That will completely eliminate the food problem...even though Corn isn't the major reason behind the hike in prices...

Still...this green gasoline stuff is showing even more promise than ethanol. I'll be following that VERY closely.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:04 PM   #21
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once engines begin to be tailored more for Ethanol, efficiency will go up and that mileage decrease will shrink....
Exactly. Ethanol has less energy stored in it, but being higher octane it should be possible to extract that energy more efficiently in an engine designed for it.

Quote:
Cellulosic ethanol that needs to come online. That will completely eliminate the food problem...
And lots of other ways to make it, which I think I posted earlier in this thread.

Quote:
even though Corn isn't the major reason behind the hike in prices...
Energy cost is the reason food is so expensive. If we can bring the cost of energy down, food will get cheaper -- even if some components of food get more expensive.

Quote:
Still...this green gasoline stuff is showing even more promise than ethanol. I'll be following that VERY closely.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:31 PM   #22
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My camaro is going to run off of piss. lol
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:50 PM   #23
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My camaro is going to run off of piss. lol
lol thats very funny than the world would be a smelly place, Its time for a revolution, but I can't see these alternative's be fully FULLY develop unless one day are oil wells start to run dry, and we reduce are intake of crude oil from our Arab friends in till than $.$.$ but flex fuel on the camaro, LT1, LT2, I don't know about the ss, maybe
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:36 PM   #24
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Brazil has a surplus of cheap Ethanol to sell made from sugar cane. The congress will not allow import.
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:01 PM   #25
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Well, that would be something I agree with them on, then...it would sorta defeat the purpose of moving to become Energy Independance.
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