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Old 04-11-2008, 08:41 AM   #1
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Who out there DOESN'T want FI (turbo) ?

Is it just me, or is there anybody else that doesn't want a, s/c t/c what have you, on the 'maro? by all means i want a 500 hp top model, but i want it on the engine. and as for all those who just have to have a blown engine and want to keep their factory warranty, what if gm made a s/c in their after-market performance branch as an accessory???
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:25 AM   #2
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I don't know, There's a lot of extra stuff to be done when you bolt on a blower. the fuel system, the ignition, possibly the throttle body. And much more depending on how much boost you want to make. I gues I don't want all the cost and head aches of doing all that aftermarket. I'd feel much better about having it out of the box ready to wail with the factory warrany. That way I can drive it as hard as I want and it's covered. Now after the warranty expires. I'll be looking for 600 rwhp to start. Just my thoughts.
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Old 04-11-2008, 12:10 PM   #3
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I'm with you. I'd rather have 500 all motor than 500 FI. I hope GM will sell a warrantied S/C aftermarket like Ford does. It'll probably be a mild/medium S/C if that's the case (100-150hp). The fuel system shouldn't be bad to upgrade. The fuel pump should be rated to handle it already. All you should need at most would be new injectors.
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:02 PM   #4
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The Camaro Team needs to stop all this "GT500 envy". The GT500 is an overweight, underperforming, overpriced, pig. I'd rather my Z/28 wasn't a GT500 clone.
I seriously doubt they'd let the Camaro embody those descriptions. Something inside me just says 'no'. The GT500 is supposedly a benchmark... And we all know Fords were made to be broken! j/k
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:06 PM   #5
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What is all this about warrenty. They cannot void your warrenty for after market parts unless they can conclude that the issue you are having is related to the after market.
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:29 PM   #6
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GM acc. need to be installed at a dealership at the time of purchase to be totally covered by warranties, in most cases!!
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:36 PM   #7
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... The GT500 is an overweight, underperforming, overpriced, pig. I'd rather my Z/28 wasn't a GT500 clone.
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I seriously doubt they'd let the Camaro embody those descriptions. Something inside me just says 'no'. The GT500 is supposedly a benchmark... And we all know Fords were made to be broken! j/k
Agreed, Lucky for us the Camaro won't be any of those things.
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:40 PM   #8
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I don't care how they get to 500+HP, using the S/C or NA, I know what kind of performance machine I will be getting if Chevy builds it. The GT500 is nice, but it does have some short falls. Thank god it does, cause GM can learn from them and inject their always awesome engineering and run away with the crown. If the GT500 didn't exist would we be having this debate? I am now glad that we are waiting for the new Camaro, seeing how being last into the line up, we have already seen the competitions answers or hand!! THEY HAVE NOT FOUND THE SOLUTION YET, GM WILL!!!!
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:46 PM   #9
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I'd rather get the car NA with lots of power. I'd add FI if I wanted a big push to compete a level up.

I don't want my Camaro to beat the competition based on the supercharger. I want to add that to an already dominant motor so I can be assured that no one will catch up by matching mods. For example, if Car A has 500 hp and Car B has 450 hp plus 60 hp from a supercharger, all Car A has to do is add a catback exhaust to match horsepower. I'd want Car A because it starts ahead without FI and stays ahead by adding FI. Besides, any type of FI adds different types of wear to the motor. I know that all parts can be upgraded to compensate for this, but using a car as both a daily driver and a performance machine as I will do for a while makes certain modifications less desirable. Furthermore, FI out of the factory is usually less cost effective than FI in the aftermarket. In the aftermarket, a driver can get more horses per dollar. GM will offer a supercharger kit for the same price as an even better set of engine internals if you go straight to the companies you want to use. Finally, there is no better feeling than building your own street monster. If you put in the research and time to custom build your motor with the right parts, you'll appreciate it more than going to the Chevrolet website and ordering the supercharged Camaro. All you've got to do is not order the top engine trim and save the extra cash for all those mods that separate the top tier from the next step down. When your second string Camaro starts posting better times than your friend's top dog, you'll feel like Drake University did when they got to the NCAA tournament. You'll be a winning underdog. It's a good feeling.
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:37 PM   #10
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I'd rather get the car NA with lots of power. I'd add FI if I wanted a big push to compete a level up.

I don't want my Camaro to beat the competition based on the supercharger. I want to add that to an already dominant motor so I can be assured that no one will catch up by matching mods. For example, if Car A has 500 hp and Car B has 450 hp plus 60 hp from a supercharger, all Car A has to do is add a catback exhaust to match horsepower. I'd want Car A because it starts ahead without FI and stays ahead by adding FI. Besides, any type of FI adds different types of wear to the motor. I know that all parts can be upgraded to compensate for this, but using a car as both a daily driver and a performance machine as I will do for a while makes certain modifications less desirable. Furthermore, FI out of the factory is usually less cost effective than FI in the aftermarket. In the aftermarket, a driver can get more horses per dollar. GM will offer a supercharger kit for the same price as an even better set of engine internals if you go straight to the companies you want to use. Finally, there is no better feeling than building your own street monster. If you put in the research and time to custom build your motor with the right parts, you'll appreciate it more than going to the Chevrolet website and ordering the supercharged Camaro. All you've got to do is not order the top engine trim and save the extra cash for all those mods that separate the top tier from the next step down. When your second string Camaro starts posting better times than your friend's top dog, you'll feel like Drake University did when they got to the NCAA tournament. You'll be a winning underdog. It's a good feeling.

I couldn't have said it better myself! That's my thoughts exactly. For those that are indifferent of where their ponies come from, when it come to top end, it makes a difference. And your right blur, i would much rather have a slightly less powerful straight motor and slap a blower on and easily be pulln' 600 rwhp!
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:59 PM   #11
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What is all this about warrenty. They cannot void your warrenty for after market parts unless they can conclude that the issue you are having is related to the after market.
Right. According to the law, the burden of proof is on them to prove the aftermarket part caused the problem. The consumer shouldn't have to prove the aftermarket part didn't cause the problem. Most of the time, though, you end up getting met with dealerships that try to deny your claim b/c of the parts, hoping you'll either pay or go away. Then you have to go through the hassle of arguing with them, possibly threaten legal action, etc. Not many people want that hassle.
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Old 04-11-2008, 04:24 PM   #12
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Then really, really hope for the LS3 engine. stock it is rated for 430hp/424lb-ft
With the optional exhaust it is 436/430.

GM has a hot cam swap for ithe LS3 (coded as the LS376) the retains EFI and pumps the out put to 480hp/475lb-ft.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...1224&engCat=ls

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Old 04-11-2008, 05:15 PM   #13
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^as awesome as that would be, i would much rather have an l76 that was tuned up. i don't care so much about afm, but i would really like vvt and flex fuel. i'm sure gm could tune that baby up to at least 400 ponies. oh, and for the record, it's not so much the gas efficiency i want, but i like the idea of having something that will still run if gas is too expensive to buy or non existent. and i would love a wider powerband(vvt).
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:24 PM   #14
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LS3 isnt guarranteed to have AFM. Thats been the biggest problem to our belief that the LS3 is coming. I want this engine I really do. I think its perfect for the Camaro. However, while it fits all of the perfomance # we have heard from GM and has been tapped for use in other production Vehicles, the LS3 at present does not have AFM.
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:57 PM   #15
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I'll take a 360 hp base V8 NA. If I were in the market for a 500 hp Camaro, I would still want it to be naturally aspirated. Superchargers can always be added to make more. once you have forced induction, it gets harder to make more power cheaply.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:48 PM   #16
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We're talking about two completely different ways to make HP. High HP engines that aren't blown have high compression ratios. Take the LS7 it has an 11 : 1 CR.

Now the LSA and the LS9 have 9 : 1 CR. If you put a blower on the LS7 you're only gonna be able to make about 6 PSI with out doing any thing to lower the compression ratio which lowers the base HP of the engine. So when starting with a high CR engine you are always going to be facing a trade off when you introduce FI.

Now an LSA or LS9 can easily handle over 10 pounds of boost with few mods making the same power as the blown LS7 (about 635hp) and be much more reliable due to the lower CR.

I don't really have a preference either way. I just want a blower and I am so impressed with the way Chevy built the LSA and its integrated intercooler that I don't see a need to do it after market. Nothing against the shade tree guys who want to do it themselves. Just a personal preference.

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Old 04-12-2008, 06:08 PM   #17
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Then really, really hope for the LS3 engine. stock it is rated for 430hp/424lb-ft
With the optional exhaust it is 436/430.

GM has a hot cam swap for ithe LS3 (coded as the LS376) the retains EFI and pumps the out put to 480hp/475lb-ft.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...1224&engCat=ls

Possible Applications*
·It looks like "just an LS", but you know the truth
That would be awesome if you could order the hot cam option with the camaro. Wishful thinking.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:55 PM   #18
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We're talking about two completely different ways to make HP. High HP engines that aren't blown have high compression ratios. Take the LS7 it has an 11 : 1 CR.

Now the LSA and the LS9 have 9 : 1 CR. If you put a blower on the LS7 you're only gonna be able to make about 6 PSI with out doing any thing to lower the compression ratio which lowers the base HP of the engine. So when starting with a high CR engine you are always going to be facing a trade off when you introduce FI.

Now an LSA or LS9 can easily handle over 10 pounds of boost with few mods making the same power as the blown LS7 (about 635hp) and be much more reliable due to the lower CR.

I don't really have a preference either way. I just want a blower and I am so impressed with the way Chevy built the LSA and its integrated intercooler that I don't see a need to do it after market. Nothing against the shade tree guys who want to do it themselves. Just a personal preference.
u make a very good point. i guess i'm just kinda old fashion. but what about the ls2? guys are slappn' maggies on goats left and right and i don't hear about them pickn' their rods up off the ground?
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:55 PM   #19
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u make a very good point. i guess i'm just kinda old fashion. but what about the ls2? guys are slappn' maggies on goats left and right and i don't hear about them pickn' their rods up off the ground?
You're absolutely right.

Like the LS7, the LS2 has 10.9 : 1 CR, the LS3 has 10.7 :1 and the L76 has 10.4 : 1. All pretty close to what the LS7 has. So any forced induction system for these engines will have to be in the 5-6 pounds area. If you do that you will be pretty safe. Again, all these engines are boost limited due to the high CR.

And don't let me fool you. If the Camaro doesn't have a supercharger, I will be getting an aftermarket one. Quick, fast and in hurry!

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Old 04-13-2008, 08:22 AM   #20
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^soooo, wouldn't u have a greater all around net gain if got 500 hp on the engine w/ a high cr and stuck a blower on their with 5-6 lbs??? i'm not trying to knock u or anything, it's just in my mind once u get a factory blown engine, it seems like u have to just settle w/ that hp or get a really really expensive aftermarket that's even better. whereas, w/ a straight motor, u can strap on a mediocre blower and pick up 100 ponies.
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Old 04-13-2008, 11:21 AM   #21
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^soooo, wouldn't u have a greater all around net gain if got 500 hp on the engine w/ a high cr and stuck a blower on their with 5-6 lbs??? i'm not trying to knock u or anything, it's just in my mind once u get a factory blown engine, it seems like u have to just settle w/ that hp or get a really really expensive aftermarket that's even better. whereas, w/ a straight motor, u can strap on a mediocre blower and pick up 100 ponies.
Here is how I see it:

500hp NA V8: you can add a blower that will give you 5-6lbs of boost

Smaller 500hp V8 with a factory blower: you can swap the pulley and add 5-6 lbs of boost to what the factory gave you for pocket change.

Assuming that both setups will require a tune maybe an upgraded fuel system, it sounds like the factory blower will save you some serious cash. It will also save you a lot of work.
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:33 PM   #22
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Hm...I'd prefer to have my V8 N/A. I'm not really worried about it, though, because most likely the top level V8 (the one that could potentially be S/C) will be out of my price range. Besides...I would like to have a V8 that puts out 400-450 RWHP (with mods)...and I don't think a supercharger is necessary for that...
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:13 PM   #23
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^soooo, wouldn't u have a greater all around net gain if got 500 hp on the engine w/ a high cr and stuck a blower on their with 5-6 lbs??? i'm not trying to knock u or anything, it's just in my mind once u get a factory blown engine, it seems like u have to just settle w/ that hp or get a really really expensive aftermarket that's even better. whereas, w/ a straight motor, u can strap on a mediocre blower and pick up 100 ponies.
I'm not feeling any tension, Just good conversation!


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Here is how I see it:

500hp NA V8: you can add a blower that will give you 5-6lbs of boost

Smaller 500hp V8 with a factory blower: you can swap the pulley and add 5-6 lbs of boost to what the factory gave you for pocket change.

Assuming that both setups will require a tune maybe an upgraded fuel system, it sounds like the factory blower will save you some serious cash. It will also save you a lot of work.
This is the point I was dancing around. Grape's got it. An engine with a Lower CR and a blower installed has a much higher capability to increase the HP than a NA motor that is almost tapped with a high CR.

Like Grape said, its really easy to swap out a pulley beef up the fuel injection get a tune, and wammo! you just double the blowers capability.

Not to say that NA motors don't have some real advantages cus they do. For a daily driver I would highly recommend an NA motor. Just cus it will be tame in stop and go traffic, and have all the juice you want when it's time to throttle up.

Basically my advice would be, if you are gonna get a S/C build the motor with that in mind. You will get much more out of the S/C vice having to go low boost on a high CR engine. But if you have the money and want a quick and easy way to increase your HP. A low boost S/C will cerainly get the job done. If the Camaro doesn't have a S/C option I will probably to just that.

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Old 04-13-2008, 07:35 PM   #24
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^i can say i agree w/ u for the most part. i guess i'm just old timy, and yes, mine will be a daily driver. although i might put a new intake or maybe headers and exhaust, mine's gona be pretty much stock. i'm doing this for 3 reasons, one, i'm not gona put a whole lot of $$$$$$ in it, 2, i'd be fine w/ 400-500 hp and i don't need terrible mpg, 3, watch barret jackson, the stocks sale for a whole lot more than say those 69 ss's w/ a 383 stroker in em. although i do appreciate a highly modded beast, i do love a good ol' fashion stock chevy
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:08 PM   #25
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tip for the long term owners, do any mods you want that dont involve sheet metal or structure changes. If you swap out any parts; clean em, wrap em and put tham in a crate.
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