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Old 08-14-2012, 09:24 PM   #1
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Talking Understanding F/I in a 5th gen Camaro

I get it now. These are ballpark HP figures for a 5th gen Camaro.
Roots (Maggie, SLP, Edelbrock) best for target HP 500-700, best for street, bypass valve keeps IAT’s low in traffic, and bypass valve puts rotors free spin drawing little HP in traffic.
Twin Screw (Whipple KB, Lysholm) best for target HP 600-850. Not sure if Whipple’s bypass is a full bypass or if the rotors are compressing recycled air. I know KB still compresses the recycled air causing IATs to spike in traffic.
Centrifugal (ProCharger, Vortec/Paxton) Best for high stall autos setup for the fastest drag strip E.T. over 750 HP, little to no benefit on street.
Turbos can be designed for 500-2000+, but work best without cats. I like the front mount turbonetics kit, but I worry about managing all of the hot side heat and the OEM’s do not run turbos post cats.
Agree, disagree? Do I pass the test teacher?

Last edited by audiomikej; 08-16-2012 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Fixed font
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:31 PM   #2
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Disagree. I'm a roots guy, but to say that Centri's have little to no benefit on the street is just crazy talk. Fact of the matter is, with any supercharger kit you will have at least 500rwhp on tap under your foot. Just about all of these superchargers are good for up to 750-800rwhp. It's only when you really start digging into your wallet and pushing the boost that Centri's run away into the 900-1000+ range.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomikej View Post
I get it now. These are ballpark HP figures for a 5th gen Camaro.
Roots (Maggie, SLP, Edelbrock) best for target HP 500-700, best for street, bypass valve keeps IAT’s low in traffic, and bypass valve puts rotors free spin drawing little HP in traffic.
Twin Screw (Whipple KB, Lysholm) best for target HP 600-850. Not sure if Whipple’s bypass is a full bypass or if the rotors are compressing recycled air. I know KB still compresses the recycled air causing IATs to spike in traffic.
Centrifugal (ProCharger, Vortec/Paxton) Best for high stall autos setup for the fastest drag strip E.T. over 750 HP, little to no benefit on street.
Turbos can be designed for 500-2000+, but work best without cats. I like the front mount turbonetics kit, but I worry about managing all of the hot side heat and the OEM’s do not run turbos post cats.
Agree, disagree? Do I pass the test teacher?

Disagree. Whoever gave you this info needs a junk punch.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:41 PM   #4
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:58 PM   #5
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Those are some vast over-generalizations there, some of which are completely wrong, and others sound like they're directly from a sales brochure.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:33 PM   #6
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Okay junk punch, watch out before I give you a piston slap
Let me try again.
PD roots
Edelbrock E-Force, low end torque king, great for low boost stock LS engines, great for the street. Cons: the long intake runners will start to be restrictive if you want to turn up the boost.
Magnacharger, great starter supercharger, most versatile, widest operating range, great for the street. It will bolt right up to a stock LS motor and perform great. Proven 100k+ mile durability. If you want to add a big cam, heads, or stroke you can spin to 18,000 RPM. Cons: None, other than 800 HP is the top and a few oil leaks.
Twin Screw
Whipple, a little bigger than the first two. Need fuel upgrades from the start. Can make more power than first two with other engine mods. Lower IATs than first two while under boost. Cons: A little less efficient than first two under ~5000 RPM in low boost mostly stock applications.
KB, For those who like sucking in the rear. Cons, heat soak in stop and go traffic, smaller support base.
Lysholm, For those who want a Lysholm Pros: good belt rap. Cons: cannot spin as fast as Maggie, history not as strong as the others.
Centrifugal
Small Procharger, Vortech/Paxton. Great for those who want to upgrade later to a big Centri. Easier to hook at the strip. Can run a little more boost safely on a stock bottom end because the torque curve starts later. Simple Air-Air intercooler, do not have to mess with IC pumps. Lowest cost to start out. Easier to add alky meth systems. Separate belt so if you break a belt you can still drive home. Cons: narrower power band than PD. Centri owners are mental! You must be wired a little different to own a centri. If you have specific technical questions about centri it is tough to get answers.
Big Procharger, Vortech/Paxton, drag strip king, can go into the thousands of HP. Easier to tune and run than turbo. Cons: will throw a belt if you let off too quickly.
Turbo for those who want turbo(s)
Cons for all of the above F/I over N/A heat soak. In road racing (20 min sessions) and stop and go traffic, watch for heat soak.

Better? What did I miss? I know some would prefer the way a certain F/I sounds over another. For me I think they all sound great!

Last edited by audiomikej; 08-16-2012 at 09:23 PM. Reason: fixed font
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:55 PM   #7
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by audiomikej View Post
Okay junk punch, watch out before I give you a piston slap
Let me try again.
PD roots
Edelbrock E-Force, low end torque king, great for low boost stock LS engines, great for the street. Cons: the long intake runners will start to be restrictive if you want to turn up the boost.
Magnacharger, great starter supercharger, most versatile, widest operating range, great for the street. It will bolt right up to a stock LS motor and perform great. Proven 100k+ mile durability. If you want to add a big cam, heads, or stroke you can spin to 18,000 RPM. Cons: None, other than 800 HP is the top and a few oil leaks.
Twin Screw
Whipple, a little bigger than the first two. Need fuel upgrades from the start. Can make more power than first two with other engine mods. Lower IATs than first two while under boost. Cons: A little less efficient than first two under ~5000 RPM in low boost mostly stock applications.
KB, For those who like sucking in the rear. Cons, heat soak in stop and go traffic, smaller support base.
Lysholm, For those who want a Lysholm Pros: good belt rap. Cons: cannot spin as fast as Maggie, history not as strong as the others.
Centrifugal
Small Procharger, Vortech/Paxton. Great for those who want to upgrade later to a big Centri. Easier to hook at the strip. Can run a little more boost safely on a stock bottom end because the torque curve starts later. Simple Air-Air intercooler, do not have to mess with IC pumps. Lowest cost to start out. Easier to add alky meth systems. Separate belt so if you break a belt you can still drive home. Cons: narrower power band than PD. Centri owners are mental! You must be wired a little different to own a centri. If you have specific technical questions about centri it is tough to get answers.
Big Procharger, Vortech/Paxton, drag strip king, can go into the thousands of HP. Easier to tune and run than turbo. Cons: will throw a belt if you let off too quickly.
Turbo for those who want turbo(s)
Cons for all of the above F/I over N/A heat soak. In road racing (20 min sessions) and stop and go traffic, watch for heat soak.

Better? What did I miss? I know some would prefer the way a certain F/I sounds over another. For me I think they all sound great!

Not really. Still way over simplifying things. Big centris don't throw belts any more than any other setup.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:47 PM   #9
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Didn't want to be too wordy. Could have said PD for the street, Centri for the strip.

What am I missing? Would love to get into more detail

For example, how to understand this


http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_127899.gif

If throwing belts is not the weak link for big centri then what is?

How much power does it take to spin a centri before the boost comes in? (Engine RPM idle-3K)
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:56 PM   #10
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Do you even plan on boosting?
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:27 PM   #11
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This "PD vs Centri" debate is becoming as stupid as "L99 vs LS3" debates.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:53 AM   #12
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This "PD vs Centri" debate is becoming as stupid as "L99 vs LS3" debates.
Overwhelming amount of .………
Well craziness,lost,or opinionated ???

Pages and pages of it
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:28 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by audiomikej View Post
Okay junk punch, watch out before I give you a piston slap
Let me try again.
PD roots
Edelbrock E-Force, low end torque king, great for low boost stock LS engines, great for the street. Cons: the long intake runners will start to be restrictive if you want to turn up the boost.
Magnacharger, great starter supercharger, most versatile, widest operating range, great for the street. It will bolt right up to a stock LS motor and perform great. Proven 100k+ mile durability. If you want to add a big cam, heads, or stroke you can spin to 18,000 RPM. Cons: This SC has a con in that it will be more expensive than any other SC on the market if you want to make big power. Anything over 550RWHP will require upgrades. It can get to a point that you can spend twice as much on the SC upgrades than the SC kit originally cost. This kit probably has the one of the highest IAT's on the market other than the KB and 1.9 TVS units so again it needs costly upgrades to keep IAT's in check.
Twin Screw
Whipple, a little bigger than the first two. Need fuel upgrades from the start. Can make more power than first two with other engine mods. Lower IATs than first two while under boost. Cons: A little less efficient than first two under ~5000 RPM in low boost mostly stock applications. This one makes more power per pound of boost than all other PD blowers above 8psi so I don't know where you came up with that "a little less efficient" phrase.
KB, For those who like sucking in the rear. Cons, heat soak in stop and go traffic, smaller support base.
Lysholm, For those who want a Lysholm Pros:This is the low end and overall torque king. I have never seen better torque #'s from a SC. good belt rap. Cons: cannot spin as fast as Maggie, history not as strong as the others.
Centrifugal
Small Procharger, Vortech/Paxton. Great for those who want to upgrade later to a big Centri. Easier to hook at the strip. Can run a little more boost safely on a stock bottom end because the torque curve starts later. Simple Air-Air intercooler, do not have to mess with IC pumps. Lowest cost to start out. Easier to add alky meth systems. Separate belt so if you break a belt you can still drive home. Cons: narrower power band than PD. Centri owners are mental! You must be wired a little different to own a centri. If you have specific technical questions about centri it is tough to get answers.
Big Procharger, Vortech/Paxton, drag strip king, can go into the thousands of HP. Easier to tune and run than turbo. Cons: will throw a belt if you let off too quickly.
Turbo for those who want turbo(s)
Cons for all of the above F/I over N/A heat soak. In road racing (20 min sessions) and stop and go traffic, watch for heat soak.

Better? What did I miss? I know some would prefer the way a certain F/I sounds over another. For me I think they all sound great!
Fixed statement are in red. I don't know enough about the others to comment one way or another.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:29 PM   #14
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Lightbulb

Thank you Vader SS for the feedback! Tell us how you really feel about the Maggie

Yes S3XPather, I have been exploring three options as an over winter project.
1. Mast L99 stage 1 cam with a 50 shot
2. LS9 cam conversion plus supercharger
3. Lethal Injection’s 3rd circuit appeal cam, they don’t release the specs but they do say the lift and duration are so big the valves never actually close. It’s not an issue because I have access to two Procharger unreleased F.U.-2 blowers that can be 300% overdriven. Setup as twins with waste gates opening at 1 RPM over idle it will maintain full boost to redline. Direct injected at 30 Bar, the setup basically converts my piston style engine into a gas turbine. I like this option because I want to think it will be able to be driven on the street.

I would consider a centri just trying to understand them better. I drive about 6000 miles per year on the street and I do not want a pig that gets less than 12 MPG. I also want to stay with a pump gas 91 octane tune. I would consider alky/meth unless they destroy my cats.
Trying to decide which supercharger would be the most street friendly matched with a L99 plus LS9 cam conversion, LT headers w/ cats, and ZL-1 fuel pump. My driving style is tame on the street, rarely cross 4K RPM. At the track I push it to limit (Road race and 1/8 mile drags)
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:17 PM   #15
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That custom text is hard to read.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:31 PM   #16
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Please do tell us...what is a Prochager F.U. 2 blower?

I can't wait to hear this.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:12 PM   #17
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Here is a video of what it is adapted from


We actually started out with this blower but found it was too big for an automotive application. Camslambam not sure why my font is always different, we will see if I fixed it on this post.

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Old 08-16-2012, 09:19 PM   #18
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Please do tell us...what is a Prochager F.U. 2 blower?

I can't wait to hear this.
The F U procharger is what theyre making me to take down the jolly green giant. I don't think I need to go into detail about the custom name!!
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:10 AM   #19
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The F U procharger is what theyre making me to take down the jolly green giant. I don't think I need to go into detail about the custom name!!
You did mention a top secret project...
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:49 AM   #20
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Wow...the power of the Internet prevails. I'll tell you what, if a centri is non-beneficial on the street...I'll meet you half way say around tulsa an show you against your NA car. I shouldn't beat you if it's non-beneficial? Black and white test.
In other words...you need to experience some of these blowers dude.

Not trying to be rude, just trying to simply say don't do everything in life based on reading the Internet forums.
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:20 AM   #21
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^^^^^^^^
Oh - it's called "internet forum engineered".....

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Old 08-17-2012, 09:37 AM   #22
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everyone thinks of pd vs centri like we have one gear. I always hear about low end rpm vs all the pull up top...yadda yadda. Dude...it's a 6 speed. You will go through gears pretty quick. Yes there is a difference in how they drive...but its not as radical as everyone lets on IMO. Boosted, period=awesomeness. Pick your method of FI.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:46 AM   #23
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How bout instead of taking shots at someone who is trying to piece all the data together,

why don't the experts in this thread give the guy a bone and correct his misconceptions without all the sarcasm.

Sound fair?
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:31 AM   #24
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Thank you Vader SS for the feedback! Tell us how you really feel about the Maggie

Yes S3XPather, I have been exploring three options as an over winter project.
1. Mast L99 stage 1 cam with a 50 shot
2. LS9 cam conversion plus supercharger
3. Lethal Injection’s 3rd circuit appeal cam, they don’t release the specs but they do say the lift and duration are so big the valves never actually close. It’s not an issue because I have access to two Procharger unreleased F.U.-2 blowers that can be 300% overdriven. Setup as twins with waste gates opening at 1 RPM over idle it will maintain full boost to redline. Direct injected at 30 Bar, the setup basically converts my piston style engine into a gas turbine. I like this option because I want to think it will be able to be driven on the street.

I would consider a centri just trying to understand them better. I drive about 6000 miles per year on the street and I do not want a pig that gets less than 12 MPG. I also want to stay with a pump gas 91 octane tune. I would consider alky/meth unless they destroy my cats.
Trying to decide which supercharger would be the most street friendly matched with a L99 plus LS9 cam conversion, LT headers w/ cats, and ZL-1 fuel pump. My driving style is tame on the street, rarely cross 4K RPM. At the track I push it to limit (Road race and 1/8 mile drags)
Current Mod list, C.A.I. CAI, LT headers w/ cats, tune, lowering springs, 20x9 OEM wheels with NT-05 275-40 on all corners. Next up: sway bars.
I'm doing the LS9 cam with the Eforce. Went LS9 cam because it's a GM engineered blower cam...and it's dirt cheap. I went with the eforce because it's the closest to the LS9 supercharger for about 3/4 of the price. I have the ZL1 fuel pump and the Eforce 60# injectors. I have headers and a CAI. I'm putting it all together now. I prob won't have dyno results until sept because I'm doing it myself on spare weekends...if you follow my build thread you can see what I've bought/installed and what else I end up needing. I'm already looking at the 1LE rear end axles/ gears
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #25
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How bout instead of taking shots at someone who is trying to piece all the data together,

why don't the experts in this thread give the guy a bone and correct his misconceptions without all the sarcasm.

Sound fair?
You go first and show us what you mean.
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Built by Vengeance Racing
9.31@154.81 mph
Procharger F1-X
RPM Level 7 4L80e + Coan Converter
Hendrix 9" Rear Axle + 3.50 Gear
ARH 2" LTs+3.5" Exhaust
Fore Fuel System, Bogarts + Hoosier Slicks
Pfadt Drag Pack Suspension
My Build Thread | Best Pass To Date

Last edited by HufferSS; 08-17-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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