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Old 08-16-2009, 10:05 AM   #1
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the truth about your LEGAL LONG TUBE headers/cats

every one seems to think just because they buy long tube headers with cats that they are legal, not really

read over,, starting on page 4


http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:23 AM   #2
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Good Find, this should help people make educated decissions about how they will mod they car.

This is why I am a big fan of Supercharging as opposed to headers and exhaust mods.

You can have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:04 AM   #3
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Thanks for the info
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:06 AM   #4
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Watch out "BIG BROTHERS" gonna get ya for those illegal cats!!!!
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:09 AM   #5
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These regulations need to be revisited and revised. The goal should be the final results, not the components used. The regulations as they are do not allow for any advancements in technology; either in effectiveness or efficiency, weight, size, heat, etc.

When these regs were developed back in the early 80's computers weren't even remotely as common or as powerful as they are today. The design technology and materials we have now are WAY beyond what they had or envisioned back then.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:45 PM   #6
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As usual, good post doc!
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro1 View Post
every one seems to think just because they buy long tube headers with cats that they are legal, not really

read over,, starting on page 4


http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf
I don't think everyone things this at all .. what gave you that impression? I think many people know the deal on long tubes ..

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Old 08-16-2009, 01:51 PM   #8
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:33 PM   #9
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if you really think that a cop is going to site an EPA regulation if he writes you a citation for illegal long tube headers??

Highly doubt it. While you statement is well founded... and yes, it's been against EPA regulation for years that if you alter a working catalytic converter, it's illegal. But where's the enforcement? It's not like there's EPA agents going door to door looking for aftermarket cats on new cars.

I live in a county in Va that doesnt even do a sniffer test, I could care less about the legalities of long tube headers. But someone in a different state where they have to be visually inspected and sniff tested with CARB numbers, it may be a concern for them.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
These regulations need to be revisited and revised. The goal should be the final results, not the components used. The regulations as they are do not allow for any advancements in technology; either in effectiveness or efficiency, weight, size, heat, etc.

When these regs were developed back in the early 80's computers weren't even remotely as common or as powerful as they are today. The design technology and materials we have now are WAY beyond what they had or envisioned back then.
Doc, I agree with you 100% that it really should focus on outcomes, not components, but these regs are not entirely from the 80s, they were also developed for OBD-II vehicles. They are in place because of the self-diagnostic capabilities of our cars. The 8yrs/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer was done for the change to OBD-II.

The only time it is enforced is against shops doing "illegal" modifications, or if someone is a real a-hole and they want to make an example out of you. But it is a real problem when you sell a car in some states, you can be held responsible for returning the car to as-delivered condition, or fined, or both.

Sometimes I hate the government, I love this part:

Quote:
What may happen if I don't use the correct converter?

First, it is a violation of Federal law because it is likely to increase the amount of pollution coming out of the vehicle. Penalties for violations by individuals, service or repair shops or fleet operators are up to $2,500 per violation. (Each improper installation is considered a violation.) New car dealers can be penalized up to $25,000 per violation. Any person who causes a violation could be subject to the same penalty as the installer.
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:14 PM   #11
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grow a pair!!!!!!!
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:28 PM   #12
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It really does not matter where you live, if you know someone and/or are willing to pay a little extra, when they test your car it will run like a hybrid. There are and have always been ways to circumvent the system.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:29 PM   #13
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In California, headers/CAI's that don't have a CARB stamp are a big no-no. If Arnold finds out you're running long tubes he (allegedly) goes to your house and kicks you square in the nuts for polluting. Then he jumps in his private jet and flies back home
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro1 View Post
every one seems to think just because they buy long tube headers with cats that they are legal, not really

read over,, starting on page 4


http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf

Doesn't everyone know this?
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDBeck23 View Post
if you really think that a cop is going to site an EPA regulation if he writes you a citation for illegal long tube headers??

Highly doubt it. While you statement is well founded... and yes, it's been against EPA regulation for years that if you alter a working catalytic converter, it's illegal. But where's the enforcement? It's not like there's EPA agents going door to door looking for aftermarket cats on new cars.

I live in a county in Va that doesnt even do a sniffer test, I could care less about the legalities of long tube headers. But someone in a different state where they have to be visually inspected and sniff tested with CARB numbers, it may be a concern for them.
Your right Cops Dont' have time for this but in states where Emmission testing is done under the watchful eye of a camera, there is no way around it, grease or no grease.

There are Emission Enforcement officers in states where emission testing is done.

They don't do sniffer tests here either for car 96 and newer, it is OBD2 testing where they plug in to the computer and check the Readiness Monitors, if they are not set indicating all systems are operational you fail.

This is the strictest form of emisson testing I have ever seen, when you move or change the cats the monitors will not set.

If you want a good read, Google Readiness tests or monitors.

Every customer deserves to know up front what he or she is getting into when making a purchase, Not driven by the sale.

I educate my customers , and sometimes I lose sales on specific parts but it is better than having someone mad at me come emisson time.

There are many ways to make power legally.

Ted.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:08 AM   #16
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i dont let the government tell me how to mod my car. if i want to put new cats on my car, i will have someone from the epa watching me do it to rub it in their face and i would be so happy watching him/her helplessly watching!!!
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:17 AM   #17
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i dont let the government tell me how to mod my car. if i want to put new cats on my car, i will have someone from the epa watching me do it to rub it in their face and i would be so happy watching him/her helplessly watching!!!

LOL, I want to be there to see that Please let us know when this is going to happen.

The good part will come when you go to road test it.

They are not as Helpless as you think.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:56 PM   #18
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i dont let the government tell me how to mod my car. if i want to put new cats on my car, i will have someone from the epa watching me do it to rub it in their face and i would be so happy watching him/her helplessly watching!!!
and then ...
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:53 PM   #19
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These rules have been on the books for some time and anyone who modifies the exhaust is subject to them. It is just another risk involved in modifying a vehicle. Some states are worse than others.

But there have always been and will always be ways around the rules. And if the reward is worth the risk people will take the chance. I know I would/have. Just know that nothing is free..
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:59 PM   #20
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and then ...
LOL! +1
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:21 PM   #21
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Legal and long tubes in the same sentence is funny.
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:55 PM   #22
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In my county in ohio we have an echeck. If you car is obd 2 they plug into your car and see if it passes the test. If you dont have OBD 2 your car must go on the rollers. Dont think long tubes would be a good idea for me. Will wait for GMPP headers to try and keep warranty as much as possible.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:50 PM   #23
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:34 PM   #24
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:36 PM   #25
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from page 4....

Quote:
When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust
system repair;

while it is a federal offense to remove a working piece of emissions equipment.... their own rule book says that I can replace a stock one for an aftermarket one.... when it is missing from the vehicle.

I cant help it if some thief came and stole my cats. I'm just glad I had a set of long tube headers and aftermarket cats for my "other" car sitting in the garage.
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