Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
autoguy
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Members Area > General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion

General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion Come chat about other cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-18-2008, 04:29 PM   #1
JMROD
 
Drives: 2SS RS ABM "Bumbleblue"
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 60
Question: Cars only driven by one wheel?

I never new this but my friend was telling me that all cars actually only get driven by one wheel (torque/power transfered to only one wheel). Is this true?

Do muscle cars work like this as well? I am familiar with slip differential but I am kind of dissapointed to think that even muscle cars, and our Camaro, will only be driven by one wheel. 400hp+ to one wheel?

Anyway can someone please enlighten me on the subject.
JMROD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2008, 05:12 PM   #2
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Unless it's a motorcycle....um no. Cars are driven by at least two wheels.

What the slip differencial does is allocate more power to one wheel than the other when necessary, like wheel slip or off roading: but to get ALL the power to one wheel....that would require some extreme conditions.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2008, 05:53 PM   #3
camaro5


 
camaro5's Avatar
 
Drives: Off Into The Sunset
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 4,430
Dragon is right.

It just occurred to me though...

Maybe you're talking about the way a non-limited slip rear drive car will light up (spin) the right rear tire.

I had a 69 Camaro like that until I changed the differential. That poor right rear tire! I used to fog the entire neighborhood - good times

The famous Mustang chase scene in Bullitt shows this situation clearly.

He lights up the right rear while the left just sits there.

The 2010 Camaro will definitely have Limited-Slip available. Be sure yours is so equipped when ordering or purchasing.

camaro5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2008, 08:31 PM   #4
Mindz
E.B.A.H.
 
Mindz's Avatar
 
Drives: you wild...
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In the happy padded room wearing a jacket that makes me hug myself...
Posts: 18,176
FWD = all power to Right front wheel. At least in my eclipse and my saturn it is.
__________________
Blue Rush, 2010 SS [Car of the Week 3/22/2010] Traded in on...ZLZBUBB, 2013 ZL1
Mindz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2008, 08:45 PM   #5
Camaro_Corvette
36.833283,-76.021958
 
Camaro_Corvette's Avatar
 
Drives: Team 1LE
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 22,962
my monte carlo will every now and then leave a pair of black stripes, but most of the power is on the right front like mindz....thought i'd throw that out there....
__________________

Last edited by Camaro_Corvette; 04-18-2008 at 10:27 PM.
Camaro_Corvette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 08:55 AM   #6
MerF
Go Rays!
 
MerF's Avatar
 
Drives: 03 Trailblazer
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St Pete, Florida
Posts: 2,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindz View Post
FWD = all power to Right front wheel. At least in my eclipse and my saturn it is.
But put the car in a situation where the right wheel has better traction and the left one will spin, I guarantee. I'm not proud of it, but I have had a few FWD cars on the track. :/
MerF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 09:44 AM   #7
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 21,981
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
I know of only 2 cars that are driven by 1 wheel:
  • the T-Rex. It has a motorcycle type rear end, and the front looks like blunt F1 car without a spoiler. http://www.go-t-rex.com/
  • go karts.
I think the problem being reffered to is torque steer. I think (could be wrong) that in front wheel drive cars the enginie powers the right front axle half which then transfers power to the left front. This, combined with less than perfect suspension and driveline setups allows for the right front to get more power than the left. When that happens, the car feels like its being driven by the right front. This doesn't happen in rear drive cars because everthing is symetrical.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 10:24 AM   #8
LSxcellent
 
Drives: MINI Cooper S
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 284
Nah, your friend is misunderstanding the situation...

If both tires have equal traction (ie going straight down a road) then they both contribute to forward motion.

If you bias one wheel with more traction (ie shift more weight onto it, either by turning or by sitting on that side of the car) then the other wheel will slip first under heavy load.

So, if you SIT in your car, you add XXXlbs to that side, and in the USofA this is the left side of the car, so that tire will have more traction, and the result of this is the right wheel will slip first.

Both wheels contribute to forward motion no matter what, but under the WORST conditions the WORST happens.... the wheel that has the MOST grip usually gets the LEAST torque (as a result of 'differential drive' action).

This is why you need either a limited slip diff or a good traction control system (like the new Dynamic Traction Control on the new Caddilac CTS-V). These systems detect when the Unloaded wheel (ie least traction) spins, and reproportions torque to the Loaded wheel (and it does this by clamping down on the Unloaded wheel, redirecting the torque to the other side).

So basically your friend is wrong, but its not a simple yes/no question anyway.

~LSx
__________________
"When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?"
LSxcellent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 12:18 PM   #9
Power Junkie
GM give me my fix please!
 
Drives: 95 Toyota GT4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: England.. aka the EU's whipping boy!!! (but not for much longer, hopefully)
Posts: 173
In some way the guy is right... all power delivered to one wheel.... it's called The "Fly Wheel".
__________________
How does a man show he's planning for the future???
He buys 2 cases of beer instead of one!!!
Power Junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 12:54 PM   #10
Mythic
 
Mythic's Avatar
 
Drives: '03 Monte Carlo SS
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: VaBeach VA
Posts: 349
All I know is a few years back when I had an 84 Z28 we had a really bad ice storm. There was at least 1 1/2" of ice on the street. Lucklily, the car was parked before the ice hit so all four tires were still on pavement. I got the car moving but I got stuck trying to make a 3 point turn. I gave it a little thottle, then some more, then alot and the car never moved. When I got out and walked around the car, both front wheels and the rear left were firmly planted. However, the right rear wheel had burned down in to the ice coating the road and was just sorta hanging out. I could run my hand under the tire without touching it or the ice.

Luckliy since the ice was so bad, I put it in neutral, and pushed it back into its parking space. Then I went back inside, called in to work and went back to bed.
Mythic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 01:11 PM   #11
rocketman 12
SOON.........
 
rocketman 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 ABM #1340(app.) 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wolcottville, Indiana
Posts: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro_corvette View Post
my monte carlo will every now and then leave a pair of black stripes, but most of the power is on the right front like mindz....thought i'd throw that out there....

My '02 Monte does the same thing, it will even jump to the right a little, like the right wheel is just spinning, but the left is actually getting traction. I think it might have something to do with the extra 250lbs. on the left side of the vehicle...
__________________
I can't wait to do this in my Camaro
rocketman 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 02:50 PM   #12
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman 12 View Post
My '02 Monte does the same thing, it will even jump to the right a little, like the right wheel is just spinning, but the left is actually getting traction. I think it might have something to do with the extra 250lbs. on the left side of the vehicle...

yes and no. it mainly has to do with the drivetrain itself. tho weight/traction does have its part to play. imagine a simple rear-wheel-drive vehicle, with one rear wheel on asphalt with good grip, and the other on a patch of slippery ice. With the load, gradient, etc., the vehicle requires, say, 2000 Nm of torque to move forward (i.e. the threshold torque). Let us further assume that the non-spinning traction on the ice equates to 400 Nm, and the asphalt to 3000 Nm.

If the two wheels were driven without a differential, each wheel would push against the ground as hard as possible. The wheel on ice would quickly reach the limit of traction (400 Nm), but would be unable to spin because the other wheel has good traction. The traction of the asphalt plus the small extra traction from the ice exceeds the threshold requirement, so the vehicle will be propelled forward.

With a differential, however, as soon as the "ice wheel" reaches 400 Nm, it will start to spin, and then develop less traction ~300Nm. The planetary gears inside the differential carrier will start to rotate because the "asphalt wheel" encounters greater resistance. Instead of driving the asphalt wheel with more force, the differential will allow the ice wheel to spin faster, and the asphalt wheel to remain stationary, compensating for the stopped wheel by extra speed of the spinning ice wheel. The torque on both wheels will be the same - limited to the lesser traction of 300 Nm each. Since 600 Nm is less than the required threshold torque of 2000 Nm, the vehicle will not be able to move.

An observer will simply see one stationary wheel and one spinning wheel. It will not be obvious that both wheels are generating the same torque (i.e. both wheels are in fact pushing equally, despite the difference in rotational speed). This has led to a widely held misconception that a vehicle with a differential is really only "one-wheel-drive". In fact, a normal differential always provides equal torque to both driven wheels (unless it is a locking, torque-biasing, or limited slip type).


plus how many of you have ever seen someone do a burnout on the LEFT side only of a rwd car?

the reason the right side does it is because it actually recieves more power than the left side of the axle due to the rotational force applied from the driveshaft.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 03:48 PM   #13
z28camaro2471
C5 Member #227
 
z28camaro2471's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post

plus how many of you have ever seen someone do a burnout on the LEFT side only of a rwd car?

the reason the right side does it is because it actually recieves more power than the left side of the axle due to the rotational force applied from the driveshaft.
Plus, to further illustrate your point, you'll always see cars pivot to the right rear on a hard launch. The left front always comes up first due to the engine's rotation.
z28camaro2471 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 05:30 PM   #14
camaro5


 
camaro5's Avatar
 
Drives: Off Into The Sunset
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 4,430
That was a good point about traction control too.

It's a whole new ball game now - better game.


New info - here's a new car driven by one wheel!


The times, they are a changing. We've been seeing all kinds of craziness on the roads of Detroit these days in response to the insanity of expensive gas. We saw our second Detroit area Smart ForTwo last night and are wondering if the taste for hulking behemoths is being usurped by the compact and efficient. This was followed up by the shock we felt when we snapped this little bugger parked outside a local bank. The "Scoot Coupe" is a two person runabout featuring engines ranging in size from 50cc up to 150cc, and have an MSRP starting at $6,199. That seems like a lot to pay for something that tops out at only 45 MPH. For that money we'd rather have an old El Camino with a surplus golf cart in the bed.


http://jalopnik.com/381523/scoot-cou...-world-pending
Attached Images
 

Last edited by camaro5; 04-19-2008 at 06:19 PM.
camaro5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:26 PM   #15
rocketman 12
SOON.........
 
rocketman 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 ABM #1340(app.) 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wolcottville, Indiana
Posts: 939
ummmm......^^^^^^^^
__________________
I can't wait to do this in my Camaro
rocketman 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:30 PM   #16
camaro5


 
camaro5's Avatar
 
Drives: Off Into The Sunset
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 4,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman 12 View Post
ummmm......^^^^^^^^
LOL What a POS!
camaro5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 04:21 AM   #17
Synerbee
SoCal Headturners
 
Synerbee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SGM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Anaheim Hills, California
Posts: 5,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
Dragon is right.

It just occurred to me though...

Maybe you're talking about the way a non-limited slip rear drive car will light up (spin) the right rear tire.

I had a 69 Camaro like that until I changed the differential. That poor right rear tire! I used to fog the entire neighborhood - good times

The famous Mustang chase scene in Bullitt shows this situation clearly.

He lights up the right rear while the left just sits there.

The 2010 Camaro will definitely have Limited-Slip available. Be sure yours is so equipped when ordering or purchasing.

It sad whenever my dad makes a right in 69 camaro turn faster than 25 it burns out the right tire
Synerbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 04:04 PM   #18
lil_red_v6
one wheelin
 
lil_red_v6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 yamaha r6
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: saginaw
Posts: 2,214
Send a message via Yahoo to lil_red_v6
wow this thread is old.
lil_red_v6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New member here chiming in. Want to know which cars the camaro is benchmarked against Sal08 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 16 04-21-2008 06:50 PM
Why you like Muscle Cars? .Hack General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 14 03-04-2008 02:57 PM
Question for people who have turboed muscle cars Mindz General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 14 10-15-2007 06:45 AM
Crash tests downgrade small cars KILLER74Z28 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 0 12-19-2006 03:31 AM
Rear-drive cars KILLER74Z28 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 0 08-21-2006 02:42 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.