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Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

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Old 08-17-2009, 03:46 AM   #1
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Camaro in Motortrend's 2009 driver's car competition.

http://www.motortrend.com/av/feature...lap/index.html


Only partial vid clips now. Full results on the 19th. The driver appeared to like the gt500 better. However, the ss did get a better lap time than the bmw 1 series. Also, a vid of the cts-v.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:00 AM   #2
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Notice how they ask him.."You just drove the Gt500, how did this perform against it?? .. Then he lambasts the Camaro and says "The Mustang is better" and so forth.. He is comparing it to the GT500 yet he doesn't say GT500 a single time, only Mustang.. Motortrend never wants to compare the Camaro SS with its true competitor, the Mustang GT because they know the Camaro will always win in all areas without the track pack.. Then if you add the track pack, the Mustang is slow in comparison but these drivers would still say it feels better.. Ahh well, I say who cares what these rags think anyways.

It is the equivalent of this guy getting out of an aston martin and then test driving the ZR1 and saying that he would rather drive that all day long around a track because it just feels better..lol..
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:36 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Notice how they ask him.."You just drove the Gt500, how did this perform against it?? .. Then he lambasts the Camaro and says "The Mustang is better" and so forth.. He is comparing it to the GT500 yet he doesn't say GT500 a single time, only Mustang.. Motortrend never wants to compare the Camaro SS with its true competitor, the Mustang GT because they know the Camaro will always win in all areas without the track pack.. Then if you add the track pack, the Mustang is slow in comparison but these drivers would still say it feels better.. Ahh well, I say who cares what these rags think anyways.

It is the equivalent of this guy getting out of an aston martin and then test driving the ZR1 and saying that he would rather drive that all day long around a track because it just feels better..lol..
The guy who asked the question, making it clear that the mustang was a gt500 was a motortrend guy. The driver was a person they hired for this story. Motortrend said the camaro was the best out of the gt, rt, and ss. They even had a drag race where the ss almost kept up with the gt500, and they admitted it wasnt a fair race for the ss. Motortrend is one of the most pro camaro magazine out there. The driver they hired didnt make his comparison clear though is the problem.

They also tested the gt i think, so it will be interesting to see the lap time and compare.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:35 PM   #4
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The guy who asked the question, making it clear that the mustang was a gt500 was a motortrend guy. The driver was a person they hired for this story. Motortrend said the camaro was the best out of the gt, rt, and ss. They even had a drag race where the ss almost kept up with the gt500, and they admitted it wasnt a fair race for the ss. Motortrend is one of the most pro camaro magazine out there. The driver they hired didnt make his comparison clear though is the problem.

They also tested the gt i think, so it will be interesting to see the lap time and compare.
QFT.

of all of the major auto rags....Automobile, Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Road and Track......MT is easily the most Camaro-friendly. If you don't like what MT has to say about the Camaro vs Mustang saga it wont get any better.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:40 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Ahh well, I say who cares what these rags think anyways.

It is the equivalent of this guy getting out of an aston martin and then test driving the ZR1 and saying that he would rather drive that all day long around a track because it just feels better..lol..
I tend to equate these magazines to movie critics. I hardly ever agree with what they have to say. They're simply making a story to justify their existence.

There's a reason I don't buy any of them. I mean, I'll read what they have to say online, but I'd rather spend $20 on toilet paper.
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:13 PM   #6
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the September edition of Automobile Magazine has a pretty interesting write comparing the SS to the Stang GT with track pack running hot laps on a road course. you can probably find it on their site or somewhere online. personally I bought the magazine too keep to let all my buddies that say the mustang is better on road courses read the facts for themselves. Great Comparison and Write Up!!
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:58 PM   #7
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Just curious what the results actually were for the road course. Post 'em?
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:21 PM   #8
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Just curious what the results actually were for the road course. Post 'em?
I don't recall the times in that article, but I'm pretty certain the Camaro beat the GT by around .7 of a second.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:29 PM   #9
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i wonder what my lil 6 banger will do against a gt, new ones i think will smoke me, but the older gt's i think i can take
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:15 AM   #10
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I think the driver gave the car an accurate assessment. We've been hearing that the Camaro SS pushes and its setup may be on the conservative side since the first road tests. Performance cars are rarely perfect in their first year and if you think back to improvements made on the 2006 Z06, 1997 C5 and early F-bodies this shouldn't be surprising. The Camaro while technically being a Zeta its suspension geometry and setup have some substantial changes from the G8, Commodore and the Holdens. So in many ways it's new and will need to further be refined. Just like the driver I see lots of potential.

The 2010 Mustang GT and GT500 have been improved quite a bit since the nearly the same 2005/06 MY. It was hard to tell back then because there wasn't any real competition but they have refined their solid axle set up to new highs and it shows from the results.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:56 AM   #11
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I think the driver gave the car an accurate assessment. We've been hearing that the Camaro SS pushes and its setup may be on the conservative side since the first road tests. Performance cars are rarely perfect in their first year and if you think back to improvements made on the 2006 Z06, 1997 C5 and early F-bodies this shouldn't be surprising. The Camaro while technically being a Zeta its suspension geometry and setup have some substantial changes from the G8, Commodore and the Holdens. So in many ways it's new and will need to further be refined. Just like the driver I see lots of potential.

The 2010 Mustang GT and GT500 have been improved quite a bit since the nearly the same 2005/06 MY. It was hard to tell back then because there wasn't any real competition but they have refined their solid axle set up to new highs and it shows from the results.
This
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
I don't recall the times in that article, but I'm pretty certain the Camaro beat the GT by around .7 of a second.
garagelogic is correct. the camaro had the fastest lap of 1:40.0 compared to the mustangs 1:40.07 which we all know isn't anytype of lead, but my point is the camaro beat the mustang in it's own race. I'm not trying to start any major arguments, just tired of hearing the camaro would not hang with the mustang/track pack on a windy road. The article goes into great detail.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by qdz21 View Post
garagelogic is correct. the camaro had the fastest lap of 1:40.0 compared to the mustangs 1:40.07 which we all know isn't anytype of lead, but my point is the camaro beat the mustang in it's own race. I'm not trying to start any major arguments, just tired of hearing the camaro would not hang with the mustang/track pack on a windy road. The article goes into great detail.
When I see that 0.7 sec, I think: "Camaro has VASTLY inferior handling, and enough power to overcome that deficit".

Too bad. They made the rear end handle great, but left the front a mess. I wonder how hard it'll be to balance it out and get that front end gripping? Will we have to have a super-hard ride to do it? Or will just lowering an inch or two, along with slightly stiffer springs and a fat sway bar, do the trick?
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by qdz21 View Post
garagelogic is correct. the camaro had the fastest lap of 1:40.0 compared to the mustangs 1:40.07 which we all know isn't anytype of lead, but my point is the camaro beat the mustang in it's own race. I'm not trying to start any major arguments, just tired of hearing the camaro would not hang with the mustang/track pack on a windy road. The article goes into great detail.
The guy above got it right. Reasonably similar cars in the same segment and the difference on the racetrack is less than a second despite more than a 100hp advantage for the Camaro? The difference in mid range torque should have the Camaro absolutely running off and hiding from the Mustang. Reality? Camaro is running away on the straights and the Mustang is absolutely up the Chevy's backside in every corner. The Camaro SS should have an easy two or three second lead on the Mustang at least, and it just doesn't.

Yeah, this comparo proves it, handling is not on the same level between these two.
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:12 PM   #15
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Here is the link to the article in the Automobile Magazine. http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...ies/index.html

Long write up but interesting. It comparison starts on page 3 and the numbers are listed on the last page( i believe page 8).
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by syr74 View Post
The guy above got it right. Reasonably similar cars in the same segment and the difference on the racetrack is less than a second despite more than a 100hp advantage for the Camaro? The difference in mid range torque should have the Camaro absolutely running off and hiding from the Mustang. Reality? Camaro is running away on the straights and the Mustang is absolutely up the Chevy's backside in every corner. The Camaro SS should have an easy two or three second lead on the Mustang at least, and it just doesn't.

Yeah, this comparo proves it, handling is not on the same level between these two.
I see it this way: the difference is less than a second for a car that weighs 300 lbs less and is being praised for how effective it is around the track. I think it's a nice compliment for the Camaro that even though it's pretty portly at almost 3900 lbs it still managed to just barely outrun the Mustang around a road course.
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:29 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DeathChill View Post
I see it this way: the difference is less than a second for a car that weighs 300 lbs less and is being praised for how effective it is around the track. I think it's a nice compliment for the Camaro that even though it's pretty portly at almost 3900 lbs it still managed to just barely outrun the Mustang around a road course.
x1
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:24 AM   #18
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I see it this way: the difference is less than a second for a car that weighs 300 lbs less and is being praised for how effective it is around the track. I think it's a nice compliment for the Camaro that even though it's pretty portly at almost 3900 lbs it still managed to just barely outrun the Mustang around a road course.
I can appreciate the love for the home team. But, the longer the Camaro is out, the more it seems like a slightly plush, big power cruiser with phenomenal brakes than a pure GT/ponycar, which is really meant to be a more comfortable evolution of a sports car. There is nothing wrong with that, but I think it points out that the Camaro and Mustang really aren't the same kind of car this go 'round.

In terms of personality and execution Camaro slants more heavily toward the muscle car side of the equation while the Mustang is more of a true American GT/ponycar.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:44 AM   #19
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Full results on the 19th. The driver appeared to like the gt500 better.
Let's just say there are going to be a lot of unhappy people on this board when they read the full article.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:47 AM   #20
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Let's just say there are going to be a lot of unhappy people on this board when they read the full article.
Why is that? Because the GT500 IS significantly faster? Makes more power?

I don't get why they would be unhappy.. it's just facts. They SHOULD already be aware of it.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:51 AM   #21
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Let's just say there are going to be a lot of unhappy people on this board when they read the full article.
No offense, but why would anyone here be unhappy? We did not spend 50k on a performace car, and if we did, it would likely be a Corvette.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:52 AM   #22
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Let's just say there are going to be a lot of unhappy people on this board when they read the full article.
Well of course you know it will be "Well a Vette!!" conversation......when that article hit. People on one side want to compare the Camaro to the GT because of price. Never mind the huge power difference. So here comes the GT500...the same gap in power, but heh the price comes to play.

The 2011 GT will need to be the one to compare. The old model is just that. On a older platform. The new one will be the direct competitor. Then we will see what does what. Until then the argument will never end. No matter who says what, or what is done by who.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:53 AM   #23
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Why is that? Because the GT500 IS significantly faster? Makes more power?

I don't get why they would be unhappy.. it's just facts. They SHOULD already be aware of it.
Nope, nothing to do with the GT500 but thanks for assuming.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:56 AM   #24
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Car performance year over year is a moving target. GM should get a lot of credit for what they have accomplished with really an augmented Zeta sedan architecture in their first year. I can't stress enough that refinement takes time. Pull out a 2005 Mustang GT or a 2006 GT500 and compare them to 2010 models to see just how far Ford has come in performance with really similar underpinnings.
A lot of engineering is still trial and error.
The good news is GM can tune the suspension to cut away the understeer as the car is really a balanced machine. The concern still has to be curb weight as that probably isn't likely to get any better and will always be hurdle to the Camaro's performance.
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:08 PM   #25
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Closed,

I'm way beyond sick of this conversation.
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