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Old 04-26-2010, 03:15 PM   #57
radz28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole@Fastlane View Post
I love how you spell your state and city.

If you are towing you just tighten up the aspect ratio of the turbine side to light the turbo quicker.The faster you want to spool the turbo the tighter you get the a/r.In a racing application you open up the a/r for higher rpm power but it wont light up as quick.

If superchargers were better for towing i think all the diesel manufacturers would be using them but they stopped using them and went to turbos in the 1970s and have never looked back.

There is absolutely no application where a supercharger is going to out perform a turbo.

It comes down to what you like.I personally would rather just keep an eye on the egt guage than have to worry about belt tensioners, 8 or 10 rib set ups with all the pulleys, and worrying about belt slipage.
I had better words to use, but I have to look professional, lol

Well - I'm not going to argue with guys who've had the results you have I can't think of any diesels have have SCs... I think I can be honest and say that I just lean more toward SCs, though I totally recognize turbos being AT LEAST equals in terms of power and efficiency.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:59 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
I had better words to use, but I have to look professional, lol

Well - I'm not going to argue with guys who've had the results you have I can't think of any diesels have have SCs... I think I can be honest and say that I just lean more toward SCs, though I totally recognize turbos being AT LEAST equals in terms of power and efficiency.
Really that is all it comes down to is personal preference.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:22 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole@Fastlane View Post
I love how you spell your state and city.

If you are towing you just tighten up the aspect ratio of the turbine side to light the turbo quicker. The faster you want to spool the turbo the tighter you get the a/r.In a racing application you open up the a/r for higher rpm power but it wont light up as quick.

If superchargers were better for towing I think all the diesel manufacturers would be using them but they stopped using them and went to turbos in the 1970s and have never looked back.

There is absolutely no application where a supercharger is going to out perform a turbo.

It comes down to what you like. I personally would rather just keep an eye on the egt gauge than have to worry about belt tensioners, 8 or 10 rib set ups with all the pulleys, and worrying about belt slippage.
Let me start by saying, I am in this to speak freely and I don’t; want to come off as arguementive...with that said –

If you are towing, yes the what you ay is true, you can change the turbo configuration to be “more favorable” for towing however turbo or turbo(s) will make a sh-t pot of heat if you are towing a heavy load at sustained mid to high engine RPMs and that ain’t good. Plan on building a cast iron manifold from the head to the turbo. – I know the turbo is bitchen but it is what it will cost in reliability to the surrounding area that worries me. Like that guy in the other post that built a twin turbo kit and mounted the turbos basically right up against the valve covers.

Respectfully – you are wrong about the diesel manufacturers and why they use turbos. First of all even today many of the biggest and baddest diesel motor that come from Detroit Diesel and Volvo use compound forced induction – turbos over a roots. But more importantly the turbo on a diesel packages better and lives forever. Roots blowers won’t go 1 million plus miles like a turbo will and centrifugals and diesels are an oxy-moron.

Again while I am a huge fan of turbos and we do sell a complete line of turbo kits for the street and real world, it will be hard to beat a huge centrifugal on a gas motor and last time I checked Top fuel still ran blowers – regardless of how much power it takes to drive them the pay-back far and a way exceeds it in that application.

Lastly Pro Mod – Show me 1 turbo car that has been consistent, repeatable, reliable and so on. The fastest guys in Pro Mod with turbos are my friends and / or consult with my friends. I want nothing more than to see a turbo do well in Pro Mod but the blowers still rule – fa-getta-bout Nitrous

Hard to believe the turbo guy is now talking about blowers but hey the fact are the facts – Turbo makes more power lb for lb but that does not always mean they make the most power
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:24 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
I had better words to use, but I have to look professional, lol

Well - I'm not going to argue with guys who've had the results you have I can't think of any diesels have have SCs... I think I can be honest and say that I just lean more toward SCs, though I totally recognize turbos being AT LEAST equals in terms of power and efficiency.
A turbo is not equal to a SC in power and efficiency - the Turbo is flat out better 90% of the time - It is just what it costs (not just dollars) to get there sometimes that scares people.

Last edited by Granatelli; 04-30-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:55 PM   #61
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I will say - I just went to the Fastlane site and it looks like a nice place to take your car. I hope if you are in California or a west coast customer you try us out.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:31 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Granatelli View Post
408 stock? Wow! that is 70hp higher than any car we have ever dyno'd here with no mods
I had Kooks Headers, High Flow Cats and Dyno Tune prior to getting the Maggie installed..
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:46 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granatelli View Post
Let me start by saying, I am in this to speak freely and I don’t; want to come off as arguementive...with that said –

If you are towing, yes the what you ay is true, you can change the turbo configuration to be “more favorable” for towing however turbo or turbo(s) will make a sh-t pot of heat if you are towing a heavy load at sustained mid to high engine RPMs and that ain’t good. Plan on building a cast iron manifold from the head to the turbo. – I know the turbo is bitchen but it is what it will cost in reliability to the surrounding area that worries me. Like that guy in the other post that built a twin turbo kit and mounted the turbos basically right up against the valve covers.

Respectfully – you are wrong about the diesel manufacturers and why they use turbos. First of all even today many of the biggest and baddest diesel motor that come from Detroit Diesel and Volvo use compound forced induction – turbos over a roots. But more importantly the turbo on a diesel packages better and lives forever. Roots blowers won’t go 1 million plus miles like a turbo will and centrifugals and diesels are an oxy-moron.

Again while I am a huge fan of turbos and we do sell a complete line of turbo kits for the street and real world, it will be hard to beat a huge centrifugal on a gas motor and last time I checked Top fuel still ran blowers – regardless of how much power it takes to drive them the pay-back far and a way exceeds it in that application.

Lastly Pro Mod – Show me 1 turbo car that has been consistent, repeatable, reliable and so on. The fastest guys in Pro Mod with turbos are my friends and / or consult with my friends. I want nothing more than to see a turbo do well in Pro Mod but the blowers still rule – fa-getta-bout Nitrous

Hard to believe the turbo guy is now talking about blowers but hey the fact are the facts – Turbo makes more power lb for lb but that does not always mean they make the most power
You can not compare top fuel or pro mod using a roots to anything.The reason they run them is because the fuel they use cools the air charge so there is no intercooler needed and they are able to run a 15:1 static compression ratio before boost.

Look at the drag radial classes,outlaw 5.0,outlaw 10.5,true 10.5.THE TURBO CARS RULE those classes.
The diesel manufacturers run compound twin turbo set ups not with blowers.
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:46 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Cole@Fastlane View Post
You can not compare top fuel or pro mod using a roots to anything.The reason they run them is because the fuel they use cools the air charge so there is no intercooler needed and they are able to run a 15:1 static compression ratio before boost.

Look at the drag radial classes,outlaw 5.0,outlaw 10.5,true 10.5.THE TURBO CARS RULE those classes.
The diesel manufacturers run compound twin turbo set ups not with blowers.
You and I are on the same page and same side - I hope others realize that as we banter about the finest points.

I have a Detroit Deisel in my motorhome and it is single turbo "yes compound" into a roots blower. My fathers is a twin turbo forced through a bigger roots

Words from Detroit website

Over the years, Detroit has been the most successful engine used in most passenger buses. Using the tried and true 8v92 making 500hp and 2100 ft/lbs trqe these engine achieve greatness by twin turbocharging the commonly know roots style compressor (supercharger) What is unique in design is the lack of a belt driven appendage. The blower is driven off a gear connected in the center of the crankshaft. Recently however, companies have strived to meet ecological standards. Most recently Detroit, which had the famous 6V92 in all MC9s, a single turbocharged application compounding through a smaller but similar design roots blower, now offer their 4 stroke series 60, 300-500 hp engines. This is a great engine, but it's fairly new; less than 15 years in popularity, and is also one of the most expensive ones in the marketplace. They average between $18,000 - $27,000.

As for class dominance - I see you sell Hellion Turbo kits - Yet Hellions' flagship car is a Procharger blown engine package - thier turbo car witht he same engine and bigger tires can't go as fast - perhaps now (not sure) but for a long time.

Last edited by Granatelli; 04-30-2010 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:54 PM   #65
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You and I are on the same page and same side - I hope others realize that as we banter about the finest points.

I have a Detroit Deisel in my motorhome and it is single turbo "yes compound" into a roots blower. My fathers is a twin turbo forced through a bigger roots

Words from Detroit website

Over the years, Detroit has been the most successful engine used in most passenger buses. Using the tried and true 8v92 making 500hp and 2100 ft/lbs trqe these engine achieve greatness by twin turbocharging the commonly know roots style compressor (supercharger) What is unique in design is the lack of a belt driven appendage. The blower is driven off a gear connected in the center of the crankshaft. Recently however, companies have strived to meet ecological standards. Most recently Detroit, which had the famous 6V92 in all MC9s, a single turbocharged application compounding through a smaller but similar design roots blower, now offer their 4 stroke series 60, 300-500 hp engines. This is a great engine, but it's fairly new; less than 15 years in popularity, and is also one of the most expensive ones in the marketplace. They average between $18,000 - $27,000.

As for class dominance - I see you sell Hellion Turbo kits - Yet Hellions' flagship car is a Procharger blown engine package - thier turbo car witht he same engine and bigger tires can't go as fast - perhaps now (not sure) but for a long time.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:30 AM   #66
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:38 AM   #67
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I recently had a Stage II Blower Cam installed by Andy at ADM Performance to go along with my other mods (Listed in my signature). The cam added an additional 60 RWHP. I have a Magnaflow axle back exhaust on order. My car made over 600RWHP on the dyno.
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Old 06-07-2010, 05:01 PM   #68
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Hi, I am new to the forums, but I have been reading here alot ever sense i got my new 2SS Camaro 4 days ago. I was looking to put a SC in it but happened to stumble across this discussion and I am glad i did because of the information/geniuses that are taking the time to hash this out.

I only have one question and it might have gotten answered already but....which one is more reliable? As in installing it and 2 years down the line it frying/going out?

I read up about how placment for a Turbo is key for not frying it or the engine/parts.

I am asking becuase iam leaning more towards getting a Turbo kit now after reading this thred. I had a SC on my first car (v6 grand prix dayton 500 edition) and the only problem I ever had after about 6 years was the SC pullying snapping. That and a new belt costed me maybe around 250$. I always keep 93 running in my cars and after the dealer gas runs out I will be putting 93 on my camaro as well and probley doing the fuse pull trick mentioned on here.

This forums is very informtional and I love every min I am in here reading it, learning more about the car. Thanks.
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Old 06-07-2010, 05:20 PM   #69
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I recently had a Stage II Blower Cam installed by Andy at ADM Performance to go along with my other mods (Listed in my signature). The cam added an additional 60 RWHP. I have a Magnaflow axle back exhaust on order. My car made over 600RWHP on the dyno.
Looks like you lost nothing so no trade off - great choice
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Old 06-07-2010, 05:22 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by klandry View Post
Hi, I am new to the forums, but I have been reading here alot ever sense i got my new 2SS Camaro 4 days ago. I was looking to put a SC in it but happened to stumble across this discussion and I am glad i did because of the information/geniuses that are taking the time to hash this out.

I only have one question and it might have gotten answered already but....which one is more reliable? As in installing it and 2 years down the line it frying/going out?

I read up about how placment for a Turbo is key for not frying it or the engine/parts.

I am asking becuase iam leaning more towards getting a Turbo kit now after reading this thred. I had a SC on my first car (v6 grand prix dayton 500 edition) and the only problem I ever had after about 6 years was the SC pullying snapping. That and a new belt costed me maybe around 250$. I always keep 93 running in my cars and after the dealer gas runs out I will be putting 93 on my camaro as well and probley doing the fuse pull trick mentioned on here.

This forums is very informtional and I love every min I am in here reading it, learning more about the car. Thanks.
For me the choice was easy - Granatelli Twin Turbo - it is all you will ever need - no headers - no drama - just an easy simple 550hp or you can turn it up to 1200
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