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Old 06-15-2010, 03:09 PM   #86
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What's the opinion on the Hellion twin turbo or Supercharched big kit Kennebell?
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:54 PM   #87
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The opinion was go with Granatelli Twin Turbo or the Maggie TVS2300 - or both






Last edited by Granatelli; 06-30-2010 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:17 PM   #88
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click above to view Hellion's latest offering.
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:58 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@HellionPowerSystems View Post


click above to view Hellion's latest offering.
Just a few questions?

How does 5.5lbs of boost make 587hp and 597 ft/lbs? Assuming the stock engine made 370 rwhp - 5.5psi would produce 510hp at 100% efficiency - If you are quoting crank hp then 425 would turn into 586 - you must be quoting Eng hp not rear wheel.

7.5lbs would be 642 eng hp.

Your numbers make perfect sense and your video is a nice puff piece for Hellion. How do you tame down the compressor nice?

Can you really make 646hp with a 52lb injector? – What pump does that require?
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:07 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Granatelli View Post
A turbo is not equal to a SC in power and efficiency - the Turbo is flat out better 90% of the time - It is just what it costs (not just dollars) to get there sometimes that scares people.
So what are the other costs getting there? I know that you have to worry about heat and what not but...
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:33 PM   #91
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So what are the other costs getting there? I know that you have to worry about heat and what not but...
The reference was to upgrades to the engine if you plan to go over 625 rwhp (750 crank). There is no heat to speak of with the new GMS/TTi system as the turbos are under the car and get a cooling effect as you go down the road. In fact, we are conducting a study right now that shows the stock cats at WOT for 10 seconds are already 90 degrees hotter then teh GMS/TTi turbo for the same time frame. The longer at WOT the better the turbos look.

The same can be said for long tubes with micro cats - they produce as much or more heat then the turbos do in that location. All of a sudden the turbos are look'n REAL good in a comparo to any of the systems out there

Last edited by Granatelli; 06-27-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:34 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@HellionPowerSystems View Post


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Quote:
Originally Posted by dracer98 View Post
Just a few questions?

How does 5.5lbs of boost make 587hp and 597 ft/lbs? Assuming the stock engine made 370 rwhp - 5.5psi would produce 510hp at 100% efficiency - If you are quoting crank hp then 425 would turn into 586 - you must be quoting Eng hp not rear wheel.

7.5lbs would be 642 eng hp.

Your numbers make perfect sense and your video is a nice puff piece for Hellion. How do you tame down the compressor nice?

Can you really make 646hp with a 52lb injector? – What pump does that require?
Did you ever get an answer to this?
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:00 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Granatelli View Post
The reference was to upgrades tot he engine if you plan to go over 625 rwhp (750 crank). There is no heat to speak of witht he new GMS/TTi system as the turbos are under the car and get a cooling effect as you go down the road. In fact, we are conducting a study right now that shows the stock cats at WOT for 10 seconds are already 90 degrees hotter then teh GMS/TTi turbo for the same time frame. The longer at WOT the better the turbos look.

The same can be said for long tubes with micro cats - they produce as much or more heat then the turbos do in that location. All of a sudden the turbos are look'n REAL good in a comparo to any of the systems out there
Sweet... I didnt think heat was an issue with the lower mount but... I was trying to think of non-monetary costs that it seemed you were referring to. I would love nothing more than to buy your system right now... But it is looking like I will have to wait to closer to the end of the year if I get a contract I am looking for. Thank you for your info. You have been a huge help on this topic.

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Did you ever get an answer to this?
I was wondering that myself...
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:45 PM   #94
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Got a 2011 5.0 Mustang last night. We had beem working on the twin turbo kit for that as well. Customer wanted car back so I had to but my own. It is no personality like the Camaro. If fact there was a black 2010 Camaro in the parking lot like 20 feet from a black 2010 Mustang. Even in a sea of Mustangs, the 1 Camaro was best in class.

Driving it home, it seemed unstable by comparison to the Camaro as well. Lets see how the 4 cammer responds to boostage. I have a feeling lbs for lbs of boost the Mustang will react better based on the split cam profiles.

As to the question posed, if I did not explain properly, a hydrid roots blower or centrifugal or whatever supercharger might seem like less money to purchase but when you factor in you need to push long tubes, a CAI and quite possibly a cam then compound the labor to do all that and the Turbo System looks cost effective.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:41 PM   #95
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Since this thread is stickied I will toss up our 6-speed TT results in here for reference:

663rwhp and 649 ft/lbs of torque on 8psi
581rwhp and 564 ft/lbs of torque on 5psi

Info here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91275
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #96
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Sweet! Thanks! I'll be updating as we move along.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:55 AM   #97
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not trying to start anything with you granatelli as you are way more intelligent on turbos than I. what i do see a problem with was you were knocking ipsjeff on his kit for making something around 650 hp at 7psi not sure if it was SAE corrected or not. wouldn't your kit make something around 640 at 7 psi putting it within 2 percent of his kit?

i only bring this up because you were knocking the validity of his numbers. with the numbers you are showing here, you either were knocking jeff's kit for no reason or you decided to bump your hp numbers up just to compete? not sure which way it is.

i know as him being a vendor he wont say anything, but i just felt i had to say something.

i will be buying one of your guys kits...wont be for another year till i get out of germany though.

just keep up the good work and make me miss the states even more...
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:47 PM   #98
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not trying to start anything with you granatelli as you are way more intelligent on turbos than I. what i do see a problem with was you were knocking ipsjeff on his kit for making something around 650 hp at 7psi not sure if it was SAE corrected or not. wouldn't your kit make something around 640 at 7 psi putting it within 2 percent of his kit?

i only bring this up because you were knocking the validity of his numbers. with the numbers you are showing here, you either were knocking jeff's kit for no reason or you decided to bump your hp numbers up just to compete? not sure which way it is.

i know as him being a vendor he wont say anything, but i just felt i had to say something.

i will be buying one of your guys kits...wont be for another year till i get out of germany though.

just keep up the good work and make me miss the states even more...
I was being sarcastic - sorry

We are letting our quality, fit and finish speak for itself. Our numbers are real world. But like it has been said, it is hard to compare differnet cars on different dynos on different days.

Half to STOCK dyno claims are already 30 or 40 hp higher than what we see from the dealer
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:46 PM   #99
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whatevr company u chose , all these kits are great...its pretty much what suits u, and what power range and rpm model u like
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:50 PM   #100
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based on the sheer numbers of magnuson blower guys here - it is hard to argue that it is not the best way to go. It looks cool too. I am having a GMS Cold Air installed and dyno'd shortly and I know that will also work with a mag blower if I ever get up the funds to go f/i

I love the stealth look of the turbo though. I think you could twin turbo your car and run the piping through the factory air box so it looks all stock
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:04 PM   #101
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based on the sheer numbers of magnuson blower guys here - it is hard to argue that it is not the best way to go. It looks cool too. I am having a GMS Cold Air installed and dyno'd shortly and I know that will also work with a mag blower if I ever get up the funds to go f/i

I love the stealth look of the turbo though. I think you could twin turbo your car and run the piping through the factory air box so it looks all stock
We have done this with our corvette kits
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:05 PM   #102
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J.R.

I have taken the time to read this entire thread. If I missed anything, I apologize, but I have a few questions.

First off, thank you for taking the time to explain your area of expertise. I am torn between Supercharging and Turbo-Supercharging my Camaro.

I have an SS with the LS-3.

You mentioned the cooling of the Turbo system by undercar air flow. Are the turbo's in your system mounted under the car at the exit point of the exhaust manifold, or are they mounted at the rear?

I read where with a properly sized system, there is relatively no "turbo lag." Can you explain this a little more. I am very intrigued by this.

My next question has to do with some of the dyno graphs that have been posted. It seems that unless I'm reading them incorrectly, there is a huge in-rush of power, starting from near idle up to around 5000-5500 and then the powers drops off. Is this common. I was under the impression that Turbos created power up to and beyond the RPM capability of the engine. Is there something in the way the boost comes on that reads differently from the "blown" engines on the Dyno. The blown engines seem to make torque hard and fast and build HP all the way to or almost all the way to the red line. The charts shown here seem to show the turbo engines climbing abruptly and then peaking and dropping back off...

I know there is some professional difference of opinion related to this, but at the same relative boost level, if a turbo system provides more net gain, is there any relative difference on the long range strain on the engine? Would it be prudent to go ahead and put forged internals in the short block, or would that be un-necessary at moderate boost levels? Is it recommended to put a fuel booster or different injectors on a supercharged engine. I would not want to lean an engine out and risk breaking a piston through ring binding against the cylinder walls....
I never really knew the way a waste gate worked until reading this thread, and a question related to that is is the waste gate adjustable in small increments at any time or is this something should only be done during a dyno session? For example, could you have a hand held tuner and
"adjust" the waste gate from say 6 to 8 lbs of boost and just plug in a different tune....I guess if would be a boost on the fly so to speak...

I've ridden turbo'ed motorcycles and they are amazing, and therfore I am leaning a little towards a turbo system... I'm also a fan of sleepers. To me there is nothing more satisfying than knocking the smirk off someones face as their much more expensive car is suddenly trailing far behind a car they just knew they could smoke.

If I was to buy one of your systems, do you have a recommendation for an installer you have used in the Central South Texas area. I live between Austin and San Antonio... I'm still a couple of months away from purchasing, but I want to have my ducks lined up when the time comes...

I apologize for the long post... but really want the information from someone that has been there done that....

Anyone else with arguments for something else, or supporting information, feel free to chime in...
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