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Old 07-27-2010, 02:46 PM   #99
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whatevr company u chose , all these kits are great...its pretty much what suits u, and what power range and rpm model u like
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:50 AM   #100
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based on the sheer numbers of magnuson blower guys here - it is hard to argue that it is not the best way to go. It looks cool too. I am having a GMS Cold Air installed and dyno'd shortly and I know that will also work with a mag blower if I ever get up the funds to go f/i

I love the stealth look of the turbo though. I think you could twin turbo your car and run the piping through the factory air box so it looks all stock
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:04 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by JAFOnomore View Post
based on the sheer numbers of magnuson blower guys here - it is hard to argue that it is not the best way to go. It looks cool too. I am having a GMS Cold Air installed and dyno'd shortly and I know that will also work with a mag blower if I ever get up the funds to go f/i

I love the stealth look of the turbo though. I think you could twin turbo your car and run the piping through the factory air box so it looks all stock
We have done this with our corvette kits
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:05 PM   #102
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J.R.

I have taken the time to read this entire thread. If I missed anything, I apologize, but I have a few questions.

First off, thank you for taking the time to explain your area of expertise. I am torn between Supercharging and Turbo-Supercharging my Camaro.

I have an SS with the LS-3.

You mentioned the cooling of the Turbo system by undercar air flow. Are the turbo's in your system mounted under the car at the exit point of the exhaust manifold, or are they mounted at the rear?

I read where with a properly sized system, there is relatively no "turbo lag." Can you explain this a little more. I am very intrigued by this.

My next question has to do with some of the dyno graphs that have been posted. It seems that unless I'm reading them incorrectly, there is a huge in-rush of power, starting from near idle up to around 5000-5500 and then the powers drops off. Is this common. I was under the impression that Turbos created power up to and beyond the RPM capability of the engine. Is there something in the way the boost comes on that reads differently from the "blown" engines on the Dyno. The blown engines seem to make torque hard and fast and build HP all the way to or almost all the way to the red line. The charts shown here seem to show the turbo engines climbing abruptly and then peaking and dropping back off...

I know there is some professional difference of opinion related to this, but at the same relative boost level, if a turbo system provides more net gain, is there any relative difference on the long range strain on the engine? Would it be prudent to go ahead and put forged internals in the short block, or would that be un-necessary at moderate boost levels? Is it recommended to put a fuel booster or different injectors on a supercharged engine. I would not want to lean an engine out and risk breaking a piston through ring binding against the cylinder walls....
I never really knew the way a waste gate worked until reading this thread, and a question related to that is is the waste gate adjustable in small increments at any time or is this something should only be done during a dyno session? For example, could you have a hand held tuner and
"adjust" the waste gate from say 6 to 8 lbs of boost and just plug in a different tune....I guess if would be a boost on the fly so to speak...

I've ridden turbo'ed motorcycles and they are amazing, and therfore I am leaning a little towards a turbo system... I'm also a fan of sleepers. To me there is nothing more satisfying than knocking the smirk off someones face as their much more expensive car is suddenly trailing far behind a car they just knew they could smoke.

If I was to buy one of your systems, do you have a recommendation for an installer you have used in the Central South Texas area. I live between Austin and San Antonio... I'm still a couple of months away from purchasing, but I want to have my ducks lined up when the time comes...

I apologize for the long post... but really want the information from someone that has been there done that....

Anyone else with arguments for something else, or supporting information, feel free to chime in...
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:13 PM   #103
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Lots of people are torn as both methods offer a great power increase. It just comes down to what you really want vs. what you can afford. The twin turbo set ups are at the top of the food chain and of all the twin turbo kits out there the Granatelli/TTi system offers the most power with superior fit and finish. We are talking about “real” production style kits. You can always find companies that promise the world with no ability to deliver. I have exhausted my opinion as to why I feel the turbo is the best choice – But basically it makes the most power (or should I say, it has the ability to make mega power and always superior torque).

Our turbos are mounted directly off the exhaust manifolds – Here are a few pics:




The black plate you see is spaced down .75” This allows cools air to vent over the turbos – it is natural airflow and therefore has the same cooling effect as it would on a stock application.. (We do not offer the muffler turbo style kits – they have tremendous turbo lag. As an example we dyno’d an STS kit the other day and at 3800 it had only reached 3psi on its way to 7 at 6000 rpm – that is just not right)

Turbo Lag – As defined lag is the delay or time it takes for positive pressure to reach the intake after going WOT (wide open throttle). In the past, turbos would have a lag, meaning it would take more time for a turbocharger to get positive pressure than say a roots type blower. What they don’t tell you is it takes a ton of power to drive the blower so it is all a trade off – fast forward 20 year later and it still take a ton of power to drive the blower but turbos have come a long way and the way they work now, TWINS have virtually no lag. That means when you step on it – you see positive pressure in the manifold. Search any Granatelli and Hellion customer on this board – NO ONE complains about lack of boost right off idle. – Therefore LAG is a non issue with Twins – single turbos may have a small amount but nothing to worry about.

If you see power drop off in the graphs it is because we are all turning the dyno of at that point. I can tell you for sure our turbo kit will just keep making power until you blower the engine up – it does not give up at any RPM – the camshaft may drop off but ….. it will pull until you lift – I think the dyno graph are confusing you – if you are comparing our TT kit to say a Maggie – the Maggie may have more torque below 2000 rpm but after that – we win hands down all the way to 10,000 if you have the balls to go that high

You do not need to forge the internals if you plan to stay below 575 to the tires

Something just came up – I hope to complete this tonight – see ya

Last edited by Granatelli; 11-30-2010 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:02 AM   #104
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most of the forced induction kits sold will include the mating (required) injectors. As for a fuel pump booster, the stock system will support 475 to 500 at the rear. After that you need at minimum a fuel pump booster. To be safe an in tank pump and system upgrade should be done when going over 600 rwhp.

If you had a prof tune for say 8 psi then it would be fine at 6psi because the MAF would correct for it. However if you had a tune for say 12 psi and then only made 6, it would be super rich and yes a hand held with 2 tunes can accomplish your goal. If the question was can you adjust boost on the fly, yes with a turbo boost can be adjusted very easily and there are controllers that make it easy to go from 3 psi to 20 psi and beyond with ease

As for installer - we are happy to hook you up with the right company in your area - we have a few
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:55 PM   #105
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Procharger 8 lbs. boost

2010 CGM SS M6
Upgrades:
Procharger S/C (8 lbs. boost / 60# injectors)
Aquamist methanol injection
American racing LT headers w/mids
Magnaflow axle back
Meziere electric water pump
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:27 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Mcnhammer View Post
2010 CGM SS M6
Upgrades:
Procharger S/C (8 lbs. boost / 60# injectors)
Aquamist methanol injection
American racing LT headers w/mids
Magnaflow axle back
Meziere electric water pump
I love the Procharger, I just don't like the air filter sucking the hot air like that
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:55 AM   #107
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525 RWHP/490 RWTQ - L99 with Magnuson TVS2300 (6 lbs, 3.8"), Comp Cams (219/223 115+3)

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Old 10-15-2010, 12:27 PM   #108
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I love the look of the Maggie but i'm not impressed with their performance
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:42 AM   #109
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Jusy wanted to say great thread and lots of good info. I have an Edlbrock SC and love it. Great for low end torque. I have 625 RWHP.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:34 AM   #110
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I haven't seen anybody with the Edelbrock E-Force S/C post any results on here. Before installing the E-Force S/C I had Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers, Ported intake, LMR CAI and dyno tune. It put down 414/rwhp and 406/rwtq. After installing the E-Force S/C( minus the ported intake) adding a Roto-Fab CAI and getting a dyno tune by Jeremy Formato it put down 546/rwhp and 522/rwtq with 6# of boost.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:56 PM   #111
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That sounds about right - congrats
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:04 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granatelli View Post
Lots of people are torn as both methods offer a great power increase. It just comes down to what you really want vs. what you can afford. The twin turbo set ups are at the top of the food chain and of all the twin turbo kits out there the Granatelli/TTi system offers the most power with superior fit and finish. We are talking about “real” production style kits. You can always find companies that promise the world with no ability to deliver. I have exhausted my opinion as to why I feel the turbo is the best choice – But basically it makes the most power (or should I say, it has the ability to make mega power and always superior torque).

Our turbos are mounted directly off the exhaust manifolds – Here are a few pics:




The black plate you see is spaced down .75” This allows cools air to vent over the turbos – it is natural airflow and therefore has the same cooling effect as it would on a stock application.. (We do not offer the muffler turbo style kits – they have tremendous turbo lag. As an example we dyno’d an STS kit the other day and at 3800 it had only reached 3psi on its way to 7 at 6000 rpm – that is just not right)

Turbo Lag – As defined lag is the delay or time it takes for positive pressure to reach the intake after going WOT (wide open throttle). In the past, turbos would have a lag, meaning it would take more time for a turbocharger to get positive pressure than say a roots type blower. What they don’t tell you is it takes a ton of power to drive the blower so it is all a trade off – fast forward 20 year later and it still take a ton of power to drive the blower but turbos have come a long way and the way they work now, TWINS have virtually no lag. That means when you step on it – you see positive pressure in the manifold. Search any Granatelli and Hellion customer on this board – NO ONE complains about lack of boost right off idle. – Therefore LAG is a non issue with Twins – single turbos may have a small amount but nothing to worry about.

If you see power drop off in the graphs it is because we are all turning the dyno of at that point. I can tell you for sure our turbo kit will just keep making power until you blower the engine up – it does not give up at any RPM – the camshaft may drop off but ….. it will pull until you lift – I think the dyno graph are confusing you – if you are comparing our TT kit to say a Maggie – the Maggie may have more torque below 2000 rpm but after that – we win hands down all the way to 10,000 if you have the balls to go that high

You do not need to forge the internals if you plan to stay below 575 to the tires

Something just came up – I hope to complete this tonight – see ya
Is this a skid pad for the Camaro?
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