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Old 04-21-2008, 10:28 PM   #1
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now that camaro is coming out

now that the camaro is coming out what others do you think will follow for competion in 2010-2020 age to hold the resell value dwn.
What i am saying by the looks of it the muscle cars are comeing back may it be a bad time due to gas prices yes! but for a car collector like me that makes me wet my pants.
But back to my main question now that we have the camaro, the mustang, and the challenger.
what will be next?
or will they keep it at the 3 for this decade?

Personally i hope they bring back the firebirds too.
You never know.
From the past i hope they do bring back the firebirds.
Its the camaro's only real muscle car competion.
assumeing ford is still junk. which hasnt changed yet.
and dodge still doesnt have a tranny which may be r downfall boys.

I would like to hear other thoughts on this
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:26 PM   #2
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A firebird is a camaro essentially. Different badging so of course it's competition.

I don't think they'd bring the firebird back. I believe they're testing the waters with the muscle/pony car market before just bringing everything back.
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:33 PM   #3
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the firebird is practically dead. we might see a new GTO, the odds are worse than 50-50 though. I don't know what the current status of the rwd Impala is. Ford might be bringing back some rear drive cars from Australia. thats all I know
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:51 PM   #4
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Far as I can tell, the G8 might as well be the GTO for Pontiac. I doubt the Firebirds are coming back since GM needs to eliminate twin cars to save money (just like Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep is doing with vehicles like my Liberty and the Dodge Nitro).
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:56 PM   #5
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I agree they need to keep them different but hopefully they make a two door version all the pictures I've seen as the G8 have been 4 door
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:41 PM   #6
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but for a car collector like me that makes me wet my pants.
You are a car collector, yet you drive a Cavalier and a Trams Am? You didn't list any collectibles.


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Originally Posted by chucklesdead View Post
will they keep it at the 3 for this decade? You never know. From the past i hope they do bring back the firebirds.
Its the camaro's only real muscle car competion.
assumeing ford is still junk. which hasnt changed yet.
and dodge still doesnt have a tranny which may be r downfall boys.

I would like to hear other thoughts on this
I am not sure who "they" is, but there are more sports cars than just the three you mentioned. There are also the Japanese and European imports, which can very competitive.

I don't agree that the Firebird is the Camaro's only muscle car competition. There's the GTO , Charger, and the Mustang, which is not any junkier than your Cavalier. No offense, but they're substantially better than either of the cars you listed that you own. Regarding quality, GM and Ford are neck-and-neck, but Dodge falls behind a bit in overall quality, so I think their transmissions are the least of your concerns. They did have some torque converter issues a few years back though.
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:45 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by chucklesdead View Post

Personally i hope they bring back the firebirds too.
You never know.
From the past i hope they do bring back the firebirds.
Its the camaro's only real muscle car competion.
assumeing ford is still junk. which hasnt changed yet.
and dodge still doesnt have a tranny which may be r downfall boys.

I would like to hear other thoughts on this
Firebird would cannibalize sales of Camaro I think. Anyways Pontiac might be getting coupe version of the G8 so I think that's good enough.
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Old 04-24-2008, 08:54 AM   #8
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It doesn't really matter. GM has said a dozen times that the firebird isn't coming back and that they wont have model duplication any more.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:59 PM   #9
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It doesn't really matter. GM has said a dozen times that the firebird isn't coming back and that they wont have model duplication any more.
They can say that, but there aren't a whole lot of GM vehicles that aren't duplicated.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:33 PM   #10
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I can imagine a nearly 4000 pound Camaro. I can NOT imagine a heavy Firebird. I know they were the same car, but I don't think the Firebird's attitude is compatible with all that extra weight.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:51 PM   #11
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I always saw the Firechicken as a Camaro with a huge schnozz (Esp after 1968) and a silly looking Indian badge.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:57 PM   #12
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They can say that, but there aren't a whole lot of GM vehicles that aren't duplicated.
I don't think there are any that don't have mechanical twins somewhere in the world. But perhaps GM will try to stop 'triplicating' and 'quadruplicating'.
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:09 PM   #13
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The firebirds were always a bit heavier then camaros. 4th gens anyway.
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:37 PM   #14
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I'm not sure GM ever intended to mean that they wouldn't be using the same platforms all over (it's so much cheaper to do so)...but they'd try to differenciate them better. (as in, much fewer G5/Cobalt twins). They're keeping their word with the Lambda quadriplets. Aside from all being crossovers...I don't think they look alike at all. Then you've got the Aura/Malibu: I think they've got the idea!
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:04 AM   #15
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I could go on and on about how ur idiots thinking a stock z28 would stand up to my stock ws6. but frankly i dnt have the time to type out all the stats to show why so blah!

And unless these camaro's are perfect. which would be the first gen of the car to not be a total failure when first launching. the firebird will be back in 2012 2 yrs after for gm to fix all the camaro's mistakes but call it a firebird and sell it for less.

^ that would only be what the 5th time that has happened .
Thats the only reason im buying the camaro is i hopeing im wrong and gm finnally has a decent release of the car.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:19 AM   #16
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I could go on and on about how ur idiots thinking a stock z28 would stand up to my stock ws6. but frankly i dnt have the time to type out all the stats to show why so blah!
Uhh....are you claiming your existing WS6 would beat a 2010 Camaro Z28? That's just silly based on the numbers we've been presented so far. But it's a pointless argument, since we don't even know for sure if there will be a Z28 instead of an SS.

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And unless these camaro's are perfect. which would be the first gen of the car to not be a total failure when first launching.
The other generations of Camaro's were failures? I've never been a Camaro fan (till I saw the new concept), but I am fairly certain that NO generation of the Camaro has been considered a "total failure".

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the firebird will be back in 2012 2 yrs after for gm to fix all the camaro's mistakes but call it a firebird and sell it for less.
Sorry dude, but you're wrong. GM has already confirmed they do not want to cannibalize the Camaro by sharing its sales with another model.


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Thats the only reason im buying the camaro is i hopeing im wrong and gm finnally has a decent release of the car.
Not to sound like an ass (even though I have an uncanny knack for it), but since you think the new Camaro is destined to be a "total failure", why are you posting on a Camaro forum?
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:41 AM   #17
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I could go on and on about how ur idiots thinking a stock z28 would stand up to my stock ws6. but frankly i dnt have the time to type out all the stats to show why so blah!

And unless these camaro's are perfect. which would be the first gen of the car to not be a total failure when first launching. the firebird will be back in 2012 2 yrs after for gm to fix all the camaro's mistakes but call it a firebird and sell it for less.

^ that would only be what the 5th time that has happened .
Thats the only reason im buying the camaro is i hopeing im wrong and gm finnally has a decent release of the car.
Do we have to remind you that with out the Camaro there wouldn't be a Firebird? There won't be a Firebird this time around... the WS6 of the last generation could spank the SS (this was the Chevy top dog those years with the SLP performance package in it) but no the Camaro wasn't a junk car and then the firebird came along... that's just stupid... they just wanted to get the pony car market to the pontiac loyal too...
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:43 AM   #18
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You are a car collector, yet you drive a Cavalier and a Trams Am? You didn't list any collectibles.




I am not sure who "they" is, but there are more sports cars than just the three you mentioned. There are also the Japanese and European imports, which can very competitive.

I don't agree that the Firebird is the Camaro's only muscle car competition. There's the GTO , Charger, and the Mustang, which is not any junkier than your Cavalier. No offense, but they're substantially better than either of the cars you listed that you own. Regarding quality, GM and Ford are neck-and-neck, but Dodge falls behind a bit in overall quality, so I think their transmissions are the least of your concerns. They did have some torque converter issues a few years back though.
GM and Ford are no where near "neck and neck" in quality and they haven't been for a few years... this is the reason you see more impalas than fusions and more cobalts than focuses because GM makes better cars than Lame Duck Ford... tell me a Ford that gets compared to the ride/feel of a bimmer then come talk to us... Just wait for the New camaro and then you'll know what i mean...
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Old 05-01-2008, 05:46 PM   #19
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GM and Ford are no where near "neck and neck" in quality and they haven't been for a few years... this is the reason you see more impalas than fusions and more cobalts than focuses because GM makes better cars than Lame Duck Ford... tell me a Ford that gets compared to the ride/feel of a bimmer then come talk to us... Just wait for the New camaro and then you'll know what i mean...
My first car was a GM, an '87 Oldsmobile. I have no allegiance in the GM vs. Ford debate, because I just don't care. I plan to own a Camaro, and I will give up my Mustang to get one. But, for the record, I wouldn't compare a Ford or a GM to the ride quality of a BMW. That's just stupid.

Regarding your claims that "GM and Ford are no where near "neck and neck" in quality and they haven't been for a few years", I'm not going to argue with you. Instead, I'll let you go to

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

or

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

to see for yourself.
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:22 PM   #20
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I can imagine a nearly 4000 pound Camaro. I can NOT imagine a heavy Firebird. I know they were the same car, but I don't think the Firebird's attitude is compatible with all that extra weight.
Who ever said the new camaro was even going to weigh that much.. from what we have seen with dimensions the camaro shouldnt be that heavy of a car..
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:46 PM   #21
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But, for the record, I wouldn't compare a Ford or a GM to the ride quality of a BMW.
Even though a few magazines are doing just that with the G8?
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:17 AM   #22
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Even though a few magazines are doing just that with the G8?
Good point. I think the gap is closing between luxury imports and domestic sedans. It's good that this is finally happening, but the G8 is an exception to the rule. I see it as GM frantically making the very best car that they can, in order to earn trust back from a generation of Americans buying Japanese vehicles. GM is losing a lot of money right now, but we as consumers are getting the best cars for the buck. It's a winning situation for us, and I am glad it's finally happening. The US automakers have a tarnished reputation right now, and it's going to cost billions to fix that. I just hope it's not too little, too late.
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Old 05-02-2008, 08:23 AM   #23
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I could go on and on about how ur idiots thinking a stock z28 would stand up to my stock ws6. but frankly i dnt have the time to type out all the stats to show why so blah!
"ur"
"i"

And many more examples as to why your post holds no value. But far be it for me to argue with a "collector" with such an extensive lineup as Cavalier, etc.

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Old 05-02-2008, 09:19 PM   #24
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My first car was a GM, an '87 Oldsmobile. I have no allegiance in the GM vs. Ford debate, because I just don't care. I plan to own a Camaro, and I will give up my Mustang to get one. But, for the record, I wouldn't compare a Ford or a GM to the ride quality of a BMW. That's just stupid.

Regarding your claims that "GM and Ford are no where near "neck and neck" in quality and they haven't been for a few years", I'm not going to argue with you. Instead, I'll let you go to

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

or

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

to see for yourself.
This is one site. when it comes down to it and i see the Fords coming in CONSISTENTLY lower in C&D comparos to GMs that leads me to believe (and this also includes personal experience with the 2 brands) that Ford is missing something that GM has finally got... Sorry but they aren't neck and neck... look at the fusion compared to the malibu or the impala you'll see a big difference...
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Old 05-02-2008, 11:26 PM   #25
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I always saw the Firechicken as a Camaro with a huge schnozz (Esp after 1968) and a silly looking Indian badge.
Then you must be too young to remember the days when Firebirds had Pontiac engines!

The 400 'Bird was a good runner. My '68 was a 350 until I blew it. I stuck a built 455HO/TH400 in there and there were few cars that could keep with it. I ran a '69 SS396 Camaro 4 times because I beat him so bad on the first run that he figured he must've had wheel spin. So, I gave him a second try. He missed second that time. I let him go again and let him have the jump - blew past him in second gear. Forth run was it (I was about out of fuel as it got 6MPG on a good day). I collected my $25 and went home!

The Pontiac engines were torque monsters and built right they could be very competitive.

In later years there were always differences in insulation and trim - the Firebirds were always fancier. A girl friend has a 2000 T/A and it's much fancier than my 2000 SS.

With all the downsizing and realignment, I'd be concerned about the Pontiac name being around much longer. GMC trucks too. The only real difference there is a little better noise insulation (according to the GMC dealer) and the grille/headlights.

Times are changin'!
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