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Old 12-06-2006, 11:04 PM   #1
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Drivers Can't Rely on Summer and All-Season Tires, or Electronics for Control on Snow

Drivers Can't Rely on Summer and All-Season Tires, or Electronics for Control on Snow and Ice

The Daily Auto Insider
Tuesday, December 5, 2006

Even with antilock brakes, traction control and vehicle stability systems, many vehicles are not fully prepared to handle winter driving conditions, according to a news release by The Tire Rack, a tire retailer and a source of tire and wheel information.

A demonstration at The Tire Rack's winter tire testing facility in South Bend, Indiana, showed that anti-lock brake (ABS), traction control (TCS), and vehicle stability systems do not actually increase traction, and that all-season and summer-only tires are ineffective on packed snow and ice. About 80 percent of new vehicles are equipped with all-season tires, and the remaining 20 percent with summer-only tires.

Acceleration tests showed that rear-wheel drive passenger vehicles equipped with winter tires benefited from up to 40 percent more traction on ice, and that the capabilities of all-wheel drive sport utility vehicles could be improved by 28 percent over their original equipment summer tires.

"All-season tires are a compromise intended to provide acceptable traction and performance traits under the widest variety of possible conditions," said Matt Edmonds, Tire Rack Vice President. "Drivers falsely assume that this includes sufficient traction for winter weather, but as these tests clearly demonstrate, this is not the case."

All-season tires feature tire tread designs and rubber compounds engineered to provide extended mileages and durability in warm weather, but are less effective in winter's freezing temperatures and on ice. And summer-only tires are not intended to be driven at all in cold temperatures. But winter tires deliver significantly better performance because their tread designs and rubber compounds are specifically engineered to maximize traction in snow and ice, while remaining flexible in colder temperatures.

The Tire Rack said its demonstration complemented tests conducted in Europe. Those tests showed how on snow covered roads, winter tires can cut braking distances by 47 percent when compared to vehicles originally equipped with summer-only tires. While a car equipped with summer-only tires required 367 feet to stop from 50 MPH, the same vehicle equipped with winter tires required only 196 feet. Even when the temperature was above freezing, winter tires were also shown to reduce braking distances. At 44 degrees Fahrenheit, on a road as wet as might be experienced during a snow melt, the braking distance from 56 mph to 0 was reduced by 15 feet — a full car length.

SOURCE: The Tire Rack
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:27 AM   #2
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Down here in SATX, it RARELY hits below 40. My "summer" tires work pretty much all year round. There are a few days, though, when the temp falls very low and it feels like they don't want to grip as much. On that note, when it gets cold, I notice other changes w/ the Camaro as well...spongier clutch would have to be the most annoying. When it gets icy, I just stay home. No one here knows how to drive in cold weather....and I'm not claiming to be the best either.
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Old 12-07-2006, 01:09 AM   #3
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Winter driving takes some time to get used to and it seems most people forget over the summer how to drive in winter weather. Thus, body shops love the first snow of the winter season $$$$. I don’t care for long winter drives if it’s really bad out but I love messing around on the slick roads when no one is around. It’s like drifting all the time… “Let’s see, how long can hang this one out”. You do have to be careful thou because the FUZZ can get you for reckless driving. Also, you can go through gas in a flash from all the wheel spinning… 4 wheel drive and POSI make snow and ice even better. It’s a blast to see Corvettes, Camaros, and Mustangs get caught in the first snow of the year, wide low profile tires + snow = going nowhere.
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:18 AM   #4
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Thanks for that interesting read.

As for winter driving, personally, I don't mind driving in snow. I have had the misfortune of getting caught in snow with the SS, NOT FUN. :eek: But having the Jeep and 4-wheel drive makes it easy.

My biggest complaint, the other nuts in 4X4's who think they can go just as fast and stop just as quickly as they would when roads are dry!!! Even though I have 4-wheel drive, I still drive like I have egg shells under the pedals, andallow twice the distance between cars as I normally would. But I still have tailgaters, people talking on their cell phones, etc., etc., when the roads are snow covered.

Besides tires, alot of people need to use better judgement and some common sense when driving in the snow.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:24 AM   #5
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Besides tires, alot of people need to use better judgement and some common sense when driving in the snow.
AMEN. For what sleet and ice we see, we get a ton of accidents. Oh, and if I may add, people also seem to have trouble driving in the rain here too! Oh, my gosh...like it starts to dizzle and *WHAM*, accidents all over the place. Fresh rain = slick roads. Thank God it doesn't ice over and snow here all the time. I'd be staying home all the time.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:37 PM   #6
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Moose, I know want you mien about the “4 wheel drive Sh** Heads” as I like to call them. I drive a 99 Extended Cab Z71 and when there is snow and ice on the road I am always in creep mode. Hell, I get passed by cars and trucks all the time. I always say “ See yah in the ditch SH** Head” and most of the time I do…

This is what happened to me this morning on my way to work. There are a couple of nice curves on my road, one being right at the end of my driveway. Since Friday 12/01/06 most of West Michigan has received 8 + inches of snow. The roads are nice and slick. Some young high school kid on lunch, in his parents 2 wheel drive Lexus Cross Over hit the curve a little to fast and spun into the ditch. He was lucky. The buildup of snow from the roads being plowed stopped his driver side door less than two feet from smashing into a telephone poll. Furthermore, the buildup of snow kept the Lexus from a 30 foot plung to the stream bed bellow. Like I said, he’s lucky…

I had 8 minutes to get to work which is usually not a problem seeing how work is right around the corner. Plus, I am at the top of the food chain so being late for helping someone out of bind when it is snowing like a bitch out could be taking care of. I grabbed my tow strap out of the back and headed to the back of the Lexus. Guess what? Nothing to tie on to. The only tie on I could find is a little stamped steel bracket that Lexus uses to strap the Cross Over down when they ship them by boat or train. As dug in as he was into the snow bank that bracket was not going to hold up. I ended up giving the poor lad a ride to the local “Tow All” around the corner. Funny thing is I still mad it to work with one minute to spare…
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Old 08-26-2008, 05:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by KILLER74Z28 View Post
Drivers Can't Rely on Summer and All-Season Tires, or Electronics for Control on Snow and Ice

The Daily Auto Insider
Tuesday, December 5, 2006

Even with antilock brakes, traction control and vehicle stability systems, many vehicles are not fully prepared to handle winter driving conditions, according to a news release by The Tire Rack, a tire retailer and a source of tire and wheel information.

A demonstration at The Tire Rack's winter tire testing facility in South Bend, Indiana, showed that anti-lock brake (ABS), traction control (TCS), and vehicle stability systems do not actually increase traction, and that all-season and summer-only tires are ineffective on packed snow and ice.
Well DUUUUUUUHHHHH!!!!

Nobody in their right mind ever said that ABS or TCS or VSS "increased traction"

It allows you to better maintain control of your vehicle.

Now comes the idiotic, "I can threshhold brake better than ABS..." rant. Well, I'm glad you live in a world with perfectly smooth, clean, and straight streets that allow threshhold braking. I live in a world of corners, dirt, gravel, rain, snow and ice. I know I can stab into my brake pedal hard and late into a corner and still steer if I have to. And in a panic situation it is unlikely that you would be able to do anything but squash the pedal and pee your pants anyway. So much for threshhold braking.

Now, I'm like the rest of you. I like to turn off the electronic nannies and have fun with the car once in awhile but the other 99.99% of the time let's leave them on.
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Old 08-26-2008, 05:29 PM   #8
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god i love western washington. no snow, only a little road frost at night, summer tires all year long
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:14 PM   #9
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I live in Texas. No snow tires for me.
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:15 PM   #10
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Hey with Global warming most of the country won't have to worry about snow in
a few years....
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:45 PM   #11
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While we enthusiasts know better, most people have no idea. It's kind of amazing what people don't know about their cars.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:06 PM   #12
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well living here in canada winter driving is like a second nature. it takes time to get use to but once use to it, its a steady flow. imo driving in the snow is were u find out how good u are at driving. if u guys ever find urself in a empty parking lot with snow and ice on the ground spend somne time their and find out how to control ur car. not only is it fun but like someone else said ur able to find out how capable ur car is, yet while knowing ur limits u can use this new skill in any future situations
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:42 PM   #13
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well living here in canada winter driving is like a second nature. it takes time to get use to but once use to it, its a steady flow. imo driving in the snow is were u find out how good u are at driving. if u guys ever find urself in a empty parking lot with snow and ice on the ground spend somne time their and find out how to control ur car. not only is it fun but like someone else said ur able to find out how capable ur car is, yet while knowing ur limits u can use this new skill in any future situations
YEP. I was born in 1962 and remember when I was a child and ALL CARS had RWD. We all got around fine.

Drive smart and any car with WINTER TIRES will get around fine. As long as your not on the TOLLWAY. FTS.
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Old 08-26-2008, 11:03 PM   #14
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YOU GET TO FORTY DEGREES!!!!!!!

WOW Im lucky to get a night in the low fiftys once in a blue moon.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:55 AM   #15
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YOU GET TO FORTY DEGREES!!!!!!!

WOW Im lucky to get a night in the low fiftys once in a blue moon.
Hah! I've seen Forty BELOW! I've driven on pure ICE (winter racing league on frozen lakes!) as well as trying to navigate a treacherous-hilly mountain pass in a TRUE blizzard! I can hardly imagine driving without snow!

New England is generally famous for some gnarly weather and the past few years have seen record snowfall! Last winter I drove to North Conway NH with my wife, and the snow banks at the end of peoples driveway were 15 FEET tall! Crazy!

But with all my winter driving experience, I can say with certainty that WINTEr tires are a must. All-Season tires are for people who live in Maryland, Virginia, etc where you _might_ get a little snow once in a while. Up here they are almost mandatory (though hardly anyone uses them!).

I agree though, the best way to learn to drive in the winter is in a LARGE open parking lot (that you ALREADY KNOW) with no curbs, poles, people, cops, etc. and take your car for a real spin! Try and actually drive in a panic situation! You'll learn fast... and there are also winter-performance driving schools out there where professional driving instructors can teach you more.

Remember, if its below 40degF more than a week at a time, you should be running snow tires!

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Old 08-28-2008, 10:35 AM   #16
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well living here in canada winter driving is like a second nature. it takes time to get use to but once use to it, its a steady flow. imo driving in the snow is were u find out how good u are at driving. if u guys ever find urself in a empty parking lot with snow and ice on the ground spend somne time their and find out how to control ur car. not only is it fun but like someone else said ur able to find out how capable ur car is, yet while knowing ur limits u can use this new skill in any future situations
Yeah me and my friend were doing that in a parking lot in diffrent cars but we were just messin around and a cop came back and gave us tickets we got diffrent court dates and said we were practice driving and the judge let us both off haha
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:11 PM   #17
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well living here in canada winter driving is like a second nature. it takes time to get use to but once use to it, its a steady flow. imo driving in the snow is were u find out how good u are at driving.
The Great Ice Storm of 1998 proved that Canadians aren't any better at driving on ice than North Texans are

We get ice more often than snow.

We have all that ultra cold air from being due south of Manitoba down low and a lot of warm moist air from the Gulf of Mexico aloft. It comes down as rain and freezes as it hits the ground.

and only the hordes of Michigan and Ohio transplants here have winter tires.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:47 AM   #18
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Drove all winter in Chicago on PZeros and was just fine... One just has to know how to drive in snow... It's not that hard and I'm from Texas originally.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:51 AM   #19
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Drove all winter in Chicago on PZeros and was just fine... One just has to know how to drive in snow... It's not that hard and I'm from Texas originally.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:52 AM   #20
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LOL

This was at the bottom of the page on another thread.. I didn't even look at the dates honestly.. Blame the site for suggesting it to me.. :P
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:37 AM   #21
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LOL

This was at the bottom of the page on another thread.. I didn't even look at the dates honestly.. Blame the site for suggesting it to me.. :P
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:55 PM   #22
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LOL

This was at the bottom of the page on another thread.. I didn't even look at the dates honestly.. Blame the site for suggesting it to me.. :P
don't worry, you're not the first person to revive this thread. Regardless, this heatwave is the perfect time to be thinking about driving on snow and ice.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:56 PM   #23
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Yeah.. My Maggy reminds me every time the car gets out in the stop/go traffic.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:37 PM   #24
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Drove all winter in Chicago on PZeros and was just fine... One just has to know how to drive in snow... It's not that hard and I'm from Texas originally.
with that said, it is A LOT easier to drive with snow tires, especially if you have to deal with any sort of an incline. It is plenty easy to make the SS skid with fresh snow on the ground or ice.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:25 AM   #25
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well living here in canada winter driving is like a second nature.
Unless you are from BC.

Winter driving mayhem. Far to many people who cant drive. Multiculturalism allowing foreigners to get their licences without understanding or learning English/french to read the road signs is becoming really rampant out here. Then there are the ignorant baby on board mothers who will turn, go, and stop wherever they damn well please....

That said I did get caught in a little snow storm in the camaro on summer tires, not something I'd like to repeat if I dont have to lol. Not impossible to drive but a bit nervewracking when there is a lake on the right with no barrier.
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