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Old 08-21-2009, 09:41 AM   #1
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Question The truth about Shorty Headers

I'm looking to find if the Shorty headers (GMPP or anyone else's version of shorties) are worth getting. Thoughts?

1. Is there any performance gain, loss, or stays the same?
2. Are there any impacts on engine life/durability?

Seems the LT headers are voiding warranties and I don't have that kinda money to replace a new engine, if I did I would have put the LS7 in my car by now So I'm looking to anything different that is fun and neat to do to this beautiful car.
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:13 AM   #2
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Well, if you have to worry about emissions testing, then I'd say, from the few threads we've seen, that shorties may be worth it if you can't run LTs. The Doug Thorleys seem to be the only ones that have been tested so far, so I'm only going off of those, but I imagine we'll be seeing more soon.

Personally, I had two sets of LTs, a set of mids', and finally ended-up with shorties on my last car and can say the sound and power are no comparison to shorties. However, after receiving two +$200 tickets for the LTs, I'll be going shorties this time, so long as there is at least a measured 10-15 RWHP improvement. For the money these are going for, that's CAI-plus $$$.

If you can get away from visual inspections, and have a good tuner and run cats', I think you're going to be okay.
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:23 AM   #3
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...finally ended-up with shorties on my last car and can say the sound and power are no comparison to shorties...
You felt the shorty gave a better sound and power?

Thanks for your input. I'm more worried about warranty than anything else and the Doug Thorley's look pretty sweet. If I was to get that, then all I would need a is a good high flow cat replacement that is warranty legal as well.
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:23 AM   #4
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Longtubes would void your exhaust warranty... that is about it.

There is no reason to run shortys outside of California.
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:29 AM   #5
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Longtubes would void your exhaust warranty... that is about it.

There is no reason to run shortys outside of California.
Well, Most LT's throw a light so then you get tired of seeing the light and here comes a TUNE to get rid of the light and the Warranty goes bye-bye.

Shorties are the safer bet but less HP gains for sure. I really wish Kooks/ARH made shorties!!

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Old 08-21-2009, 11:29 AM   #6
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You felt the shorty gave a better sound?

Thanks for your input. I'm more worried about warranty than anything else and the Doug Thorley's look pretty sweet. If I was to get that, then all I would need a is a good high flow cat replacement that is warranty legal as well.
Eh - I'm not sure I did. If anything, it droned a little more. Also, I put on a 2.5-inch Y-pipe at the same time. It felt okay, but that's the butt-o-meter; we all know how accurate that can be sometimes. Still - there's no comparison to LTs in any way, at all.

You know - I want to see if changing to high-flow cats' would help power much. I'm suprised to see GM use four cats'. I'd be interested in seeing what gains there are in going to a pair of cats' compared to the OEM four-cat' set-up.

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Longtubes would void your exhaust warranty... that is about it.

There is no reason to run shortys outside of California.
Unless you get a tune, then I'm sure the powertrain warranty goes bye-bye. Some of our cars, though, are getting by quite well without a tune, so

And yes, on the California comment. You don't live here, so you don't suck at life, therefore, I say go with a cat'd LT system, lol. (FWIW - to anyone else in CA: no offense, lol. I think you get my drift )
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:39 PM   #7
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I highly doubt you are going to get your entire powertrain warranty voided over a tune...

I think it is more the paranoid blowing things out of proportion... they have to prove that the tune did x damage... and it is an LS* motor.. they dont exactly just die.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:43 PM   #8
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Well - I guess those that are willing to risk it will find out. Most of the powertrain is controlled by the computer. Why do you think there's TM programmed into cars? I thought it was to protect them from too much power/torque during certain circumstances. I've been bullied by the dealership many times, and it always comes down to the customer being responsible for the diagnostics. What's going to happen when they say they aren't going to fix it? Is the customer going to pay for a lawyer to fight it out? I don't know.

It probably wouldn't be a problem in about 99% of the cars out there. I'd just hate to be that 1%.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:55 PM   #9
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I think it is more the paranoid blowing things out of proportion... they have to prove that the tune did x damage...
Yes they have to prove the modification caused the damage being claimed under the warranty in order to deny the claim.

If you swap your exhaust and your door handle falls off, they're not likely to deny that.

The problem becomes the fuzzy effects of certain modifications.

They could very easily deny almost any powertrain claims with a tune because the tune effects so much of the operation of the engine.

Since a warranty is essentially a civil contract, even though warranties are governed by the Magnunson Moss Warranty Act, there is no gov't agency that enforces the MMWA, so your only recourse is civil ie take them to court.

If you have the $$ to hire an attorney to take them to court over a warranty claim denial, you could probably just pay the $$ to fix things yourself and shouldn't be worrying too much about warranty claims.

So unless you're willing to go to court to enforce your warranty claim, a tune is probably not a good idea...
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:30 PM   #10
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If you have to deal with strict emissions testing, Shorties are the way to go.

Longtubes offer the best overall power gains of header choices, but some places they cant be used and still pass emissions (visual, sniffer, and OBD testing)
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:50 AM   #11
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So basically don't buy Longtubes or have fun with your car unless you have a lawyer.... lol this is funny... I got trans work done at the dealer with a full nitrous bottle in the trunk...
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:37 AM   #12
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So basically don't buy Longtubes or have fun with your car unless you have a lawyer.... lol this is funny... I got trans work done at the dealer with a full nitrous bottle in the trunk...
LOL!

So you guys think shorties are not worth the money to HP gain trade off? Has there been any Dyno's or HP gain reports on them? I'm thinking that since a supercharger is on the list (hopefully next year), the shorties will work good with it, I already have the 3 inch exhaust on it.
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:47 AM   #13
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LOL!

So you guys think shorties are not worth the money to HP gain trade off? Has there been any Dyno's or HP gain reports on them? I'm thinking that since a supercharger is on the list (hopefully next year), the shorties will work good with it, I already have the 3 inch exhaust on it.
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Old 08-22-2009, 01:11 PM   #14
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So basically don't buy Longtubes or have fun with your car unless you have a lawyer.... lol this is funny... I got trans work done at the dealer with a full nitrous bottle in the trunk...
LUCKY! Hey - I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Basically - you gotta' pay to play...

Quote:
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LOL!

So you guys think shorties are not worth the money to HP gain trade off? Has there been any Dyno's or HP gain reports on them? I'm thinking that since a supercharger is on the list (hopefully next year), the shorties will work good with it, I already have the 3 inch exhaust on it.
Well the Doug Thorleys were reported to make almost 20 RWHP, though, I think that's probably on the high-end of what to reasonably expect for gains. Now, if you're planning on FI, then I think they'll be a little more worth it over the manifolds.

JMVHO. I've been through both law enforcement issues and warranty issues because of LTs, so... take it how you want
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:59 PM   #15
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which shorty headers provide the most hp? and i'm guessing the kooks long headers are one of the best?
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:12 PM   #16
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Shorties through the stock cats will at most make 5-10HP. If you replace that cats..it will be a little more power..but at that point emissions would be out the window anyway, so you might as well get LT's which will make 30-40 rwhp with a tune.

To explain in a more technical manner..shorties make a little more power because they are basically a better flowing manifold. LT headers however make even more power because through their design and length, they scavange. Scavange means that they not only flow better..but they also increase exhaust velocity. The best analogy is kinda like how when you pinch a hose, the water speeds up. When you speed up the exhaust gases with an LT, they leave the combusion chamber faster, and your engine can breathe easier, making more power.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:51 PM   #17
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Dont know if these will be comon results but here is what they posted. Those numbers are with an all stock exhaust.



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