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Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

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Old 08-21-2009, 09:36 PM   #1
Mr CLuTcH
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Smile A 2010 Camaro Vs Charger R/T/Daytona

Hey all! I have a big concern about getting my 2010 1SS Camaro. Alright, I've been browsing the net and getting the dyno results from many Camaro SS owners with the automatic(400hp), and I don't know much about cars like many experienced owners, but why is the SS automatic not reaching anything near 400hp on the dyno?

I've heard some say its made with 400hp at the crank, ....but what does that really mean? If I'm buying an 1SS and it's suppose to come with a V8 pushing 400rwhp, how come no one else is actually getting those number on the chart? And how do I get my Hp close to though numbers?

Also, I was wondering, since my Camaro SS won't be putting out a solid 400hp, would an SS automatic be able to win a race against a Charger R/T /Daytona edition? I heard they come with 368hp,....now I don't know if that's what people will get when they push it out on the track, so if it's anything like the camaro, they'll be getting less than 368?

Oh,....and any solid suggestions on after-market parts I can use to get my Camaro at something around 450 HP? Long-tube headers? Air intake? New exhaust?
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:51 PM   #2
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Cars advertised horsepower is what is made at the crank. assume anywhere between ~11% to 20~ loss of horsepower due to drivetrain components, and you get the rearwheel horsepower (RWHP). The Daytona Charger will get significantly less horsepower than 368 at the rear wheels stock.

BTW, the Camaro w/the L99 is rated at 400hp at the crank, NOT the rear wheels.
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:00 PM   #3
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Seriously not to be a jag, but this has probably been asked about 1,201 times this week. Then when people actually do search for it they are going to have to weed thru 1,201 threads....96% of which are garbage.
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:42 AM   #4
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Seriously, forum folks need to get a grip and not get so upset when questions are asked more than once...or even 100 times. It's an internet forum and people will be coming and going and all be at varying levels of knowledge. Yes...there's a search function, but its really not that big of a deal.

If you don't want to see the question...don't read the question. It's as simple as that.
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:59 AM   #5
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You should have no problem with the charger as a friend of mine from work has a Daytona Charger R/T with a CAI and a superchip. His best time at Red River Raceway is 14.12 which is nothing anywhere near where you will be and this one has a few little mods. If the other your going to race is stock you will shall we put it mildly ahem pwn him lol. No worries. I would also race from a dead stand still as the camaro moves out pretty well and the charger outweighs you as well. None of that racing from a rolling start crap. Not that you should have a problem there either but a true race is from a dead stop. Good luck. Happy pwning! Ill be waiting to hear your results.
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Old 08-22-2009, 01:44 AM   #6
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i recommend the late model racecraft cai .... i installed mine the other day and it sounds and looks great and i felt a pretty good difference in throttle response and power . just my two cents .....( cant wait to put my cam tune and headers ) big power gains there ,you should really think bout that to reach the hp you want .
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:00 AM   #7
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it really depends on the l99 you got. some are performing well and some are 14 second cars. if you got a good one you have nothing to worry about but if you got a bad one, look out!
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:22 PM   #8
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it really depends on the l99 you got. some are performing well and some are 14 second cars. if you got a good one you have nothing to worry about but if you got a bad one, look out!
Have they got that worked out for the new ones? I am planning on ordering in december or so, don't want a dog.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
Hey all! I have a big concern about getting my 2010 1SS Camaro. Alright, I've been browsing the net and getting the dyno results from many Camaro SS owners with the automatic(400hp), and I don't know much about cars like many experienced owners, but why is the SS automatic not reaching anything near 400hp on the dyno?

I've heard some say its made with 400hp at the crank, ....but what does that really mean? If I'm buying an 1SS and it's suppose to come with a V8 pushing 400rwhp, how come no one else is actually getting those number on the chart? And how do I get my Hp close to though numbers?
The car makes 400hp at the engine. Once you attach a transmission, a driveshaft, a rear-end, and 50lb tires and wheels to it, a lot of horsepower is sucked up simply trying to turn all of those heavy things. No manufacturer rates thei cars as rear-wheel horsepower, they all rate then as "net" horsepower, which means engine horsepower with the addition of the accessories such as alternator, water pump, etc. Your car will dyno around 310-325ish at the wheels. Don't be discouraged by this number at all, dynoes read differently depending on where they are, who is using it, etc.

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Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
Also, I was wondering, since my Camaro SS won't be putting out a solid 400hp, would an SS automatic be able to win a race against a Charger R/T /Daytona edition? I heard they come with 368hp,....now I don't know if that's what people will get when they push it out on the track, so if it's anything like the camaro, they'll be getting less than 368?
Honestly, this comparison isn't even fair. You will see so yourself. Your car makes 400hp and weighs roughly 3850lbs. A Daytona/Charger has less hp and weighs 350-400lbs more. Your car has the ability to run a low 13 sec 1/4 mile time bone-stock. Only a 425hp Challenger can come near that, and they are $15,000 more.

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Oh,....and any solid suggestions on after-market parts I can use to get my Camaro at something around 450 HP? Long-tube headers? Air intake? New exhaust?
My friend Mike at New Era Performance Parts ran his box-stock. It ran a 13.38 at 104. He installed his over-the-radiator cold air kit, a set of headers, and did a tune on the pcm mainly fixing the shift calibrations. He went out and ran a 12.60 at 109. Those 3 mods are still with the stock restrictive cat-back on it. Since then he has installed a VVT cam and a new exhaust but he doesn't have track times yet. Here's a small clip of the car now with the cam:



I am sure it will be in the 11's his next time out. If I had to take a guess at the power level now, i'd say it's an EASY 440-450 at the wheels.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:46 PM   #10
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You wont have a problem beating an R/T Charger but "any SRT" will be close they have 425hp vs your 400hp but they do have more weight. With that said I've never seen a stock SRT most have at least a tune, CAI, and Catbacks .
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:37 PM   #11
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Oh, my god, WOW. You guys have some great responses, especially joelster/Kamaro; very informative. At least now, I know what I have to do to get the gains I want(450hp). And thanks for explaining what "at the crank" means. But yea, I have alot of guys with chargers with LOUD exhuast on it wanting to race and they kinda just laugh at the new camaros; I wanna race them. I guess they're foolish to laugh, but they're really dodge fans at the heart; wont give chevy credit for the camaro even if it's outright beating they're cars in speed and power.

But in November when I get my 1SS Camaro auto, Im gonna start upgrading. Just a lil saving here and there and Ill be there before you know it. I want a new exhuast, new cold air intake, and to finish it off, new headers, I want the long tube headers by "Hennesy", they're proved at having gains of 50HP with a tune, 30hp stock without a tune. So that's really what I'm trying to get first. But after that, Im going to stop upgrading. I just want a very fast, nice car, I mean Im not trying to beat a corvette in a race,...although it would add something to my ego, but take a whole lot from my wallet.

Thanks all.
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S.I.M. SS(L99):
*American Racing Headers (LT)
*Magnaflow cat-back competition exhaust
*K&N typhoon CAI
*Aggressive cam.
*Tune
**Result**: 465rwhp/ 447rwtq. Satisfied.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:49 PM   #12
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My friend Mike at New Era Performance Parts ran his box-stock. It ran a 13.38 at 104. He installed his over-the-radiator cold air kit, a set of headers, and did a tune on the pcm mainly fixing the shift calibrations. He went out and ran a 12.60 at 109. Those 3 mods are still with the stock restrictive cat-back on it. Since then he has installed a VVT cam and a new exhaust but he doesn't have track times yet. Here's a small clip of the car now with the cam:

The car comes stock with a VVT cam, do you know which after market cam he installed?
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Wacker View Post
My friend Mike at New Era Performance Parts ran his box-stock. It ran a 13.38 at 104. He installed his over-the-radiator cold air kit, a set of headers, and did a tune on the pcm mainly fixing the shift calibrations. He went out and ran a 12.60 at 109. Those 3 mods are still with the stock restrictive cat-back on it. Since then he has installed a VVT cam and a new exhaust but he doesn't have track times yet. Here's a small clip of the car now with the cam:

The car comes stock with a VVT cam, do you know which after market cam he installed?
Not sure on the specs but it is still VVT for now. He put several different cams in his G8GT, some kept the VVT some were standard cams. I would assume he will try a bunch of them out.
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:19 PM   #14
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Nice. Keep us posted on the performance gains.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:33 AM   #15
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Have they got that worked out for the new ones? I am planning on ordering in december or so, don't want a dog.
i think they have it worked out--- gm knows there is a problem with earlier models but wont admit it. word is later builds are running a different tune from factory. by december you should have nothing to worry about.

or just get an m6--- they're way better anyway.
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:21 AM   #16
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i think they have it worked out--- gm knows there is a problem with earlier models but wont admit it. word is later builds are running a different tune from factory. by december you should have nothing to worry about.

or just get an m6--- they're way better anyway.
If you plan on going crazy with the motor/tranny for the track, the auto is the way to go. A simple tweak of the tune fixes the lazy shifting, and the pistons are already fly-cut for running a big cam right from the factory. They have just cracked the surface of what the auto's are capable of.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
I don't know much about cars like many experienced owners


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Originally Posted by rodimus prime View Post
Seriously not to be a jag, but this has probably been asked about 1,201 times this week. Then when people actually do search for it they are going to have to weed thru 1,201 threads....96% of which are garbage.


give the guy a break, he has only posted 12 times !
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:04 AM   #18
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If you plan on going crazy with the motor/tranny for the track, the auto is the way to go. A simple tweak of the tune fixes the lazy shifting, and the pistons are already fly-cut for running a big cam right from the factory. They have just cracked the surface of what the auto's are capable of.
Totally agree. I think the autos have more room to work with from stock. The fastest cars I've seen so far are slightly modded A6's. I believe the fastest is an auto with a tune and a shot of juice, 11.54 I think.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Wacker View Post
My friend Mike at New Era Performance Parts ran his box-stock. It ran a 13.38 at 104. He installed his over-the-radiator cold air kit, a set of headers, and did a tune on the pcm mainly fixing the shift calibrations. He went out and ran a 12.60 at 109. Those 3 mods are still with the stock restrictive cat-back on it. Since then he has installed a VVT cam and a new exhaust but he doesn't have track times yet. Here's a small clip of the car now with the cam:

The car comes stock with a VVT cam, do you know which after market cam he installed?
He and another vendor are working feverishly to get some hi-po VVT cams to market. Stay tuned, Mike is on to something for the auto's, be it good or bad, I think he is close to figuring some stuff out. Stay tuned.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Wacker View Post
My friend Mike at New Era Performance Parts ran his box-stock. It ran a 13.38 at 104. He installed his over-the-radiator cold air kit, a set of headers, and did a tune on the pcm mainly fixing the shift calibrations. He went out and ran a 12.60 at 109. Those 3 mods are still with the stock restrictive cat-back on it. Since then he has installed a VVT cam and a new exhaust but he doesn't have track times yet. Here's a small clip of the car now with the cam:

The car comes stock with a VVT cam, do you know which after market cam he installed?


I believe he actually trapped 111mph on the 12.6 run
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:22 PM   #21
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If you plan on going crazy with the motor/tranny for the track, the auto is the way to go. A simple tweak of the tune fixes the lazy shifting, and the pistons are already fly-cut for running a big cam right from the factory. They have just cracked the surface of what the auto's are capable of.
LS3 heads are used in LS9 ('vette 638hp S/C, and in CTS-V), along with normally aspirated crate engines up to the CT525 circle track race engine.

LS3 crank is used in crate engines up to the CT525.

LS3 cam, while clearly superior to L99 cam, is not used in more advanced engines. This is one spot where LS3 offers tremendous opportunity. Cam + CAI + exhaust could easily net 100hp.

L99 does NOT use the same cam, crank or head as the LS3. Modding it WILL make it better, but until you yank the heads/cam, it won't have the same output, and even then, the crank's strength is still a question.
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:46 PM   #22
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LS3 heads are used in LS9 ('vette 638hp S/C, and in CTS-V), along with normally aspirated crate engines up to the CT525 circle track race engine.

LS3 crank is used in crate engines up to the CT525.

LS3 cam, while clearly superior to L99 cam, is not used in more advanced engines. This is one spot where LS3 offers tremendous opportunity. Cam + CAI + exhaust could easily net 100hp.

L99 does NOT use the same cam, crank or head as the LS3. Modding it WILL make it better, but until you yank the heads/cam, it won't have the same output, and even then, the crank's strength is still a question.
Interesting...What is your source? I thought the heads were the same.
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:55 PM   #23
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This is clearly going to turn into a thread of people arguing over saying my standard is better than your auto. Some people dont want to drive around and shift all the time. Some people do. In drag racing an automatic is actually the better unit to have for consistency i mean cmon i dont think we have any pro career drag racers so racing straight up is kind of out really unless just for fun. A good consistent automatic is going to be the best bet in bracket racing. However in the standards defense you can leave at whatever rpm you want to leave at. You would need a stall for the auto. But a driver being able to shift the same everytime uh no. The main reason the standard cars put out more horsepower theres no secret sauce about the engines better. Its plain facts the standard takes less horsepower to turn it than the auto does. So just buy what you like and want both are great cars. Just buy what ya like.
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:34 PM   #24
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i think they have it worked out--- gm knows there is a problem with earlier models but wont admit it. word is later builds are running a different tune from factory. by december you should have nothing to worry about.

or just get an m6--- they're way better anyway.
Thanks. I am still getting an auto though.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:16 PM   #25
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Good choice. With a tune you will love it
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