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Old 04-24-2008, 08:00 PM   #1
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Arrow GM begins testing turbo four-cylinder engine in large cars

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Spies in Sweden snapped photos of a prototype that appears to be a next-generation Buick LaCrosse, but there's more going on here than meets the eye. According to a check of the prototype's license plate information, the car is registered to Saab and was built by Holden. The car is also listed as having a 260 hp engine four-cylinder — the type GM officials have hinted might show up in the Pontiac G8 and other large cars.

GM vice chairman Bob Lutz told Leftlane that such a model was under development at the 2008 New York Auto Show, and these photos appear to be confirmation. According to the car's wrap sheet, it's powered by a 260 horsepower engine and weighs about 300 pounds less than the Pontiac G8 GT.

Lutz indicated that the Holden-derived Chinese market Buick Park Avenue would also be power by the same 260 horsepower 2.0L turbo four found in the Pontiac Solstice GXP, Saturn Sky Red Line, Chevrolet HHR SS and Cobalt SS, due to China's graduated taxation system which drastically increase on engines larger than 2.0L.

Despite the engine being in a car that is "seemingly way too big," Lutz says the engine "[feels] just great."

The combination of the smaller displacement engine — which is a third of the size of the Pontiac GT's 6.0L V8 — and lighter curb weight could see the these sedans post fuel economy numbers in the low 30s.

With ever-rising fuel prices and stricter CAFE regulations, it might not be long until we see a four-cylinder powered G8 on our shores. from http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-four-...prototype.html

Hrm.. Camaro engine bay bound as well per Lutz's earlier comments??
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Old 04-24-2008, 08:14 PM   #2
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If I was a betting man. I'd bet the house this 4 Banger will be in the Camaro.

Althought I would never buy one...only because I can afford the V8 and want the performance and sound of the V8.

With the price of gas hitting $4 a gallon today at our local Chevron...Im sure theres Hundreds of thousands of people who love to drive this camaro with a 260hp 4 banger getting 30+MPG...Hell i might just buy one for the wife.

And GM knows this as well...so prepair yourself for this undeniable event.
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:49 PM   #3
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260 hp is just about perfect for a car like the Lucerne, and bottom line G8s. As I've said before, if this lets us keep our RWD V8s, bring on the turbo 4s!
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:22 PM   #4
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Like it or not, high strung turbo 4's are the future. Look at the WRX, Evo, Audis, Solstice. Then you have the GT-R which chose not to go with a V8 and look at what it did, threw down a record at the Nurburgring and 3.2 to 60.
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:54 PM   #5
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Hrm.. Camaro engine bay bound as well per Lutz's earlier comments??
Maybe not at launch...but I'll bet everything that it gets it within 3 years of release.

If it cut weight by 300 lbs....and it's still pumping out 260 hp...Well, hell! I'm happy with that!!

(Oh, and btw...have you heard the Cobalt SS, yet? It sounds NOTHING like your typical high-revving, whining, pissed off bees-nest 4 banger. It's more like a throaty 6 from the vid I watched....hmmmmm.)
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:58 PM   #6
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Hope so Dragon, 260hp and 30+ mpg is not worth embarrassing the camaro name.
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:10 AM   #7
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Hope so Dragon, 260hp and 30+ mpg is not worth embarrassing the camaro name.
There will be nothing embarassing about kicking other cars asses.

There will be nothing embarassing about being able to continue to sell Camaros because they meet CAFE requirements by having some models that get great fuel economy.

I don't know if I'd want a turbo 4, I think even at my low budget I'd still want the NA V6, but I'd thank all those folks who take one for the team when they buy the turbo 4. The VW GTI's 260hp turbo 4 makes most of its mounds of torque at a respectable 1900 rpm, IIRC, so a similar GM turbo 4 should be a decent drive.

As I've mentioned in a couple v6 vs. v8 threads...all these small-displacement Camaros will not only help Camaro's overall average MPG meet CAFE requirements, but they will be a lot of fun to buy used in great condition in a few years for that engine you've been building in your garage!
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:50 AM   #8
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Like it or not, high strung turbo 4's are the future. Look at the WRX, Evo, Audis, Solstice. Then you have the GT-R which chose not to go with a V8 and look at what it did, threw down a record at the Nurburgring and 3.2 to 60.
I agree with this post regarding FI'ing small displacement engines in the future. It's my understanding the smaller the bore the better/cleaner the burn, hence lower emissions and higher efficiency. If you could cram more air and fuel into a smaller engine and get the same power, why not? I'm a big fan of V8s, and plan on getting a V8 model, however I don't think options like these in these cars would be bad at all. They do well in the cars posted above so that's something to keep in mind too.

As far as the GT-R, I'm not sure that any numbers we've gotten from Nissan are any good from the 'Ring. From the articles I've been reading and posts I've found here and there, the astounding times that that car has been claimed to have have been on an over-boosted engine (compared to the tune that's supposed to be in the production model) and also run on shaved race tires. I know I haven't read every article on the car, but the last one in one of the big rags' was still really positive in it's favor. Yeah, yeah, it's AWD, but hey, it uses it to it's fullest and who can argue that's a bad thing?
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:27 PM   #9
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what I like about the ecotecs are that they are not high strung 4 bangers. Typically, they keep hp and torque within 10% or so. Which means that they make torque and not revs, and makes them much less annoying to listen to.
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:19 PM   #10
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what I like about the ecotecs are that they are not high strung 4 bangers. Typically, they keep hp and torque within 10% or so. Which means that they make torque and not revs, and makes them much less annoying to listen to.
LMFAO! What; you don't like the sound of 2-cycle lawn equipment?!
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:05 PM   #11
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Holy Cow, yeah I know that, what I meant was that It'd hurt my heart if half the camaros I saw around town had that mid 90s honda civic lawn mower sound. If they sound like throaty V6s, then I'm all for it! I'll still get my V8 though.
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:51 PM   #12
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Oh yeah, I TOTALLY agree about the sound. It would be a shame for a Camaro to sound ricey or even German. My VW's 5 cylinder sounds so cheezy, not ricey, just like some little British car you'd see in an old movie or something...
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she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:52 PM   #13
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I’m pretty sure that the turbo four is destined for countries that impose a displacement based tax (including China and most of Europe). It makes roughly the same power as the port injected 3.6 but will be significantly cheaper to buy & own.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:10 PM   #14
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Sorry bout that wrong forum....

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Old 04-25-2008, 09:29 PM   #15
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This is very stupid... man someone needs to go slap gm... please PLEASE PLEASE don't make the same mistake toyota did please think of this why would you want a diesel engine that get the same mpg as the gasoline powered ones no one has noticed the flop that toyota made why would you spend $.70 +- more per gallon??? but if thats what they want to do then they can do that...
Wha-? What are you talking about? Who said anything about diesels?
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Old 04-26-2008, 12:57 AM   #16
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Oh yeah, I TOTALLY agree about the sound. It would be a shame for a Camaro to sound ricey or even German. My VW's 5 cylinder sounds so cheezy, not ricey, just like some little British car you'd see in an old movie or something...
I'm ok with their sound cuz they're still part of the Camaro family, the idea of the 4 cyl Turbo Camaro is growing on me. I mean if I pull up in my V8 and a V4 Turbo Camaro is next to me, I'll be giving them a friendly thumbs up and they'll know when they hear my engine, that I'm the big brother that will take care of any of the bigger mustangs that get too close to them.
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Old 04-26-2008, 12:28 PM   #17
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I agree that the ecotec is not high-strung at all. I mean the 2.2 in my Cobalt redlines at about 6500, idles at about 700, and cruises at 75ish at 2500. All the good power (which is class leading, BTW) comes in nicely at 3000-4000. I think I've hit 6000 once. It sounded awesome for a 4 banger blowing through a stock exhaust at near max RPM. Very deep and rumbly.
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Old 04-26-2008, 11:24 PM   #18
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... I think I've hit 6000 once. It sounded awesome for a 4 banger blowing through a stock exhaust at near max RPM. Very deep and rumbly.
Exactly. 'cept...I've been up in that rpm range quite a few times more than once....
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:42 AM   #19
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when i drive the charger... all the six bangers look at me and go... wow... i should have just gotten that one.... lol it must suck to not get a v8 lol...
on top of which... IM 100000% for the turbo 4... i changed my mind... thats a tuners dream.... the way i see it... there is a 4cyl market, a 6 cyl market and a 8 cyl market... CAMARO CAN DOMINATE ALL 3 which is great... a drifting turbo 4... or a track v6 and a drag v8... either way... the more classes a car can cover the better... and we are losing sales to HONDA AND TOYOTA guys... camon... if we sell this 4 banger we lose less money to asians which makes FUTURE CAMAROS EVEN BETTER...
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:17 PM   #20
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Personally I find myself town between the 4 cyl turbo option, and the V8. I have no interest in the V6.

All you've got to do is crank up the boost and I believe the 4 cyl can easily surpass the v6 performance wise. Depending on how much boost it's already running of course.

Of course my beef, like everyone else, would be the sound. I am partial to v8 sounds, and if a Camaro sounded like a rice burner, it would be a little sad.
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:09 PM   #21
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Exactly. 'cept...I've been up in that rpm range quite a few times more than once....
Well my Cobalt faces almost exclusively 10 mph bumper to bumper traffic. I hit 6K when a semi cut me off going uphill on a relatively open freeway and I moved over into an open lane and gunned it to keep my revs up. Other than that one time if I ever got it up to 6K RPM I'd smash right into someone's bumper. I hate Southern California.
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Old 04-27-2008, 09:24 PM   #22
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AAHHHH V4 hurts my eyes and scrambles my brain to read! inline4. Sorry just had to say that. But sure, ECOTEC's all the way, i think it would be sweet to have one of every engine that will help dominate the market. Then I can get my percious V8
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:17 AM   #23
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AAHHHH V4 hurts my eyes and scrambles my brain to read! inline4. Sorry just had to say that.
LOL, me too. I usually just say I4. Then sometimes you get people calling a v6 a "6 banger"...
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Old 05-01-2008, 05:20 PM   #24
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Just think about it for a minute. The LNF engine will have stage kits with hp bumps exceeding the 300 mark. You will have a modded 4 cylinder taking out almost any v-8 driven sports car. The LNF is a very tuner friendly engine, and is nonthing to frown on.
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Old 05-01-2008, 05:36 PM   #25
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Just think about it for a minute. The LNF engine will have stage kits with hp bumps exceeding the 300 mark. You will have a modded 4 cylinder taking out almost any v-8 driven sports car. The LNF is a very tuner friendly engine, and is nonthing to frown on.
Although I agree with most of the post, I don't think this blanket statement is quite accurate. My car makes about 400 horse at the crank (almost 370 at the wheel with only a lid, full exhaust, and dyno' tune) and I don't think FWD is more desirable than RWD in some racing. Horsepower isn't what gets the car moving; torque does that, and even though those are really good engines, there are a lot of V8s out there that make more power really easy.
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