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Old 01-29-2016, 10:31 AM   #1
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Uprated valve springs question

Before going any further I know the general way of doing things is it upgrade the cam, pushrods and springs together. Moving on...

Long story short: my car had a broken valve spring on cylinder 8. Dodged a bullet as it held onto the valve and the motor is saved. Car is back to normal and running (hot starts are actually improved as well now).

My question to everyone: is it ok to put say the PAC 1218 or 1218x valve springs into an internally stock LS3? Hardened pushrods would accompany the springs as I wouldn't want the stock pushrods dealing with more pressure.

If it's best to do cam, pushrods and springs together then I guess I'll be looking into those options. The mechanic who did the work was telling me I should see if there are aftermarket springs that I could use as the stock springs have a known history of breaking (there's a TSB on it).

Ideas, thoughts and comments welcome!
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xc_SS/RS View Post
Before going any further I know the general way of doing things is it upgrade the cam, pushrods and springs together. Moving on...

Long story short: my car had a broken valve spring on cylinder 8. Dodged a bullet as it held onto the valve and the motor is saved. Car is back to normal and running (hot starts are actually improved as well now).

My question to everyone: is it ok to put say the PAC 1218 or 1218x valve springs into an internally stock LS3? Hardened pushrods would accompany the springs as I wouldn't want the stock pushrods dealing with more pressure.

If it's best to do cam, pushrods and springs together then I guess I'll be looking into those options. The mechanic who did the work was telling me I should see if there are aftermarket springs that I could use as the stock springs have a known history of breaking (there's a TSB on it).

Ideas, thoughts and comments welcome!
Hello and thank you for your business.

You can install a valve spring package and pushrods with a stock cam for the time being to get you up and running again without issue.

Of coarse it is better and you will see large gains by going with a complete cam package like the JRE 470 cam kit.

Feel free to give me a call with any questions.

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Old 01-29-2016, 12:16 PM   #3
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Hello and thank you for your business.

You can install a valve spring package and pushrods with a stock cam for the time being to get you up and running again without issue.

Of coarse it is better and you will see large gains by going with a complete cam package like the JRE 470 cam kit.

Feel free to give me a call with any questions.

Ted.
Thanks for the quick response and the tune work on my car. Car is up and running currently so this will essentially be a peace of mind/prep for future upgrades style fix.

If I were to go with the PAC 1218 which have either a max lift of .600 or .625 depending on which model I get, would there be any adverse effects (affects?) to the engines performance with the stock cam? Slight power loss from the stiffer springs?
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:10 PM   #4
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If I were to put in stiffer valve springs or valve springs that are capable of higher lift, could that potentially throw off any other component of the valve train? I've been reading about valve train harmonics and it has me a little confused about what could happen with a different spring in there than stock
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:25 AM   #5
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xc_SS/RS, do you ever plan on dropping in a more aggressive cam anytime in the future, or are you keeping it a stock cam for life?
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Old 01-31-2016, 01:46 PM   #6
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xc_SS/RS, do you ever plan on dropping in a more aggressive cam anytime in the future, or are you keeping it a stock cam for life?
Definitely dropping in a more aggressive cam at some point, if not now with the springs if that would be the best recommendation.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:27 PM   #7
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Definitely dropping in a more aggressive cam at some point, if not now with the springs if that would be the best recommendation.
Well in that case, you need to think from now, what will be the lift specs on your cam be?

I mean, you don't want to be running say a Tooley .660 lift dual spring, on a stock cam for far too long....that would be silly.

You also don't want those .600 or .625 springs you mentioned before, if are going to go with cam spec of say .60+ lift.

I think your best bet is too do this all right now, all in one shot, cam and all supporting mods, depending on the specs you choose on the cam. You will save on labour too, why open it up twice?
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:08 PM   #8
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Well in that case, you need to think from now, what will be the lift specs on your cam be?

I mean, you don't want to be running say a Tooley .660 lift dual spring, on a stock cam for far too long....that would be silly.

You also don't want those .600 or .625 springs you mentioned before, if are going to go with cam spec of say .60+ lift.

I think your best bet is too do this all right now, all in one shot, cam and all supporting mods, depending on the specs you choose on the cam. You will save on labour too, why open it up twice?
I think I would do the install myself so there would be even more savings.

For the cam I would definitely go custom to keep everything close to stock for drivability. But I agree that it's starting to look like the best bet would be do it all at once. Might contact Pat G this week and see what he would suggest.
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Old 01-31-2016, 05:55 PM   #9
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Please share here or PM me what he recommended.

Always something new to learn, the learning curve never ends
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xc_SS/RS View Post
Thanks for the quick response and the tune work on my car. Car is up and running currently so this will essentially be a peace of mind/prep for future upgrades style fix.

If I were to go with the PAC 1218 which have either a max lift of .600 or .625 depending on which model I get, would there be any adverse effects (affects?) to the engines performance with the stock cam? Slight power loss from the stiffer springs?
Your welcome, I am always happy to help and give advice, I can spec out a cam package for your and your goals and of coarse Free custom tuning with purchase from JRE.

Thank you for your business.

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Old 02-01-2016, 03:37 PM   #11
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This has become a 'prep for future' upgrade I would say now. Everything I have been told says springs with .600 lift mac would work fine on the stock LS3 cam. So checking springs that do .600 lift I can choose from these:

PAC:
1215 - only issue with these is the open load which is 2lbs less than the stock springs (293 vs 295) but installed load is 15lbs more with the PAC (105 vs 90) 'this spring is listed as a stock drop in replacement LS engine spring that can handle up to .600 lift'

1218 - installed load is 40lbs more (130 vs 90) and open load is 23lbs more (318 vs 295) this spring is listed as a 'drop in spring that fits stock seals and retainers but is a Performance beehive spring'

1219 - installed load is 45lbs more (135 vs 90) and open load is 53lbs more (348 vs 295) this spring can handle .625 lift but is listed on PAC's website as a 'drop in spring for stock components but will handle increased lift'

PSI:
1511 - installed load is 40lbs more (130 vs 90) and open load is 75lbs more (370 vs 295) these springs allow .625 lift (PSI contact suggested these springs when I emailed them)

I'm thinking the 1215's but I guess it depends on when I'll be upgrading the cam. If it's in more than 2 years then the 1215's make sense as they're very close to stock. But the 1219's or the 1511's make sense if I'm doing the cam swap under two years. The thinking behind the time frame is mostly mileage dependent. (12,500 avg per year...).

Am I wrong in comparing the springs like this or am I on the right track here?
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Old 02-01-2016, 04:15 PM   #12
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Go dual spring kit from btr.
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Old 02-01-2016, 04:54 PM   #13
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Go dual spring kit from btr.
Dual springs would do more harm than good with the stock cam in there I believe because the spring loads are so much higher than stock. Lots of valve train wear

Checked some PAC duals and the closed load is 135lbs but open is 400lbs which is 105 more than stock. The load to open the valves with the duals is the issue with duals I think.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:25 AM   #14
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You are on the right track to compare springs....if you truly are set for single beehive springs vs a dual spring....I can totally respect the pros of the single spring(even though I personally use a dual spring...).

I just find it a bit odd, to spec a cam in the future, revolving around a spring. The spring is the supporting mod to the cam, not vice versa, so I didn't want you to be limited to that .600 single spring?

I mean, lets pretend you never had that stock valve spring failure. Fast forward to the future, what would your cam spec and spring selection have been?
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xc_SS/RS View Post
Dual springs would do more harm than good with the stock cam in there I believe because the spring loads are so much higher than stock. Lots of valve train wear

Checked some PAC duals and the closed load is 135lbs but open is 400lbs which is 105 more than stock. The load to open the valves with the duals is the issue with duals I think.
I'm doing springs now and a turbo cam later down the road. Brian himself told me it would be fine to use his btr duals with the stock cam for now.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Camaro Dude View Post
You are on the right track to compare springs....if you truly are set for single beehive springs vs a dual spring....I can totally respect the pros of the single spring(even though I personally use a dual spring...).

I just find it a bit odd, to spec a cam in the future, revolving around a spring. The spring is the supporting mod to the cam, not vice versa, so I didn't want you to be limited to that .600 single spring?

I mean, lets pretend you never had that stock valve spring failure. Fast forward to the future, what would your cam spec and spring selection have been?
Good point, if this didn't happen I would want a cam that will maximize power in the 1500/1800-6500/6800 range. Not exactly looking for an all out cam, but one that will maximize useable power and torque while still gaining power up top. Good drive ability as my car is a DD even in the snow. Would also want it to carry the power to redline up top instead of falling off a cliff like the ls3 cam lol

This is the first car of mine that will see cam work. Haven't driven a car with cam work either so this is all a bit new if you couldn't tell lol

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I'm doing springs now and a turbo cam later down the road. Brian himself told me it would be fine to use his btr duals with the stock cam for now.
Hmm I guess it could work then. When's your time frame for installing the cam though? That could be why it's alright to run those springs until you get the cam in
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