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Old 05-07-2008, 04:52 PM   #1
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Question Camaro Racing Question...

Okay, check this out. I was talking w/ some friends who are BIG import guys and when I told them that I was getting the new Camaro they all started ragging on me.

One of them drives a new Evo. I think it has a turbo. Anyways, he was telling me that my main downfall to beating imports, especially his, is that off the line my tires will skid a lot and will cause me to lose. He said, on top of that, that he wouldn't race a muscle car anyways because RWD often causes the tail to almost hit him. Something like that.

My question is, what is the remedy for the tires skidding for the first few seconds of the race and how to control a fish tail.

Thanks for atleast reading my comment.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:16 PM   #2
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Apparently he's only raced guys who can't drive and with horrible launch technique.

That was one thing I appreciated about Rev-It-Up. They taught you how to do really good launches. It is not nearly as simple as just smashing the peddle.

Again, learn to drive, then show your import friends how ignorant they are.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:24 PM   #3
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traction control. no there is more to a proper launch then just rev the engine up and dropping the clutch. you really dont even need to bring the rpms that much to do a good launch. get some good sticky tires
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:29 PM   #4
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Yeah...it's really up to the driver on the launch. It has nothing to do w/ the car.

ASR (anti slip regulation) on my current 02 SS keeps the back end from sliding all over the place. Plus, the fact that I don't mash the peddle all the way to the ground upon launch also keeps the back end from sliding out.

Wider rear tires give more traction as along w/ slicks. If you have slicks that are fairly wide on the rear and then heat them up, it'll be more difficult to break that rear end loose.
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Old 05-07-2008, 06:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by qualitywah View Post
traction control. no there is more to a proper launch then just rev the engine up and dropping the clutch. you really dont even need to bring the rpms that much to do a good launch. get some good sticky tires
Although, a traction contol launch is A LOT slower than a big rev,full throttle, no traction control launch because traction control reins in all the power so there is no slippage at all. Hopfully, the new Camaro comes with Launch Control. That gives the PERFECT amount of power to the pavement.
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo View Post
One of them drives a new Evo. I think it has a turbo. Anyways, he was telling me that my main downfall to beating imports, especially his, is that off the line my tires will skid a lot and will cause me to lose. He said, on top of that, that he wouldn't race a muscle car anyways because RWD often causes the tail to almost hit him. Something like that.

My question is, what is the remedy for the tires skidding for the first few seconds of the race and how to control a fish tail.

Thanks for atleast reading my comment.

My experience with EVO guys are some know what they are talking about and most are just completely stupid. and honestly he's starting to sound like the later half. Launching an AWD car is easier then launching a RWD one. He'll get better 60's but crappier top end then a RWD car that is comparable.

Also most EVO guys that I've met don't know how to drive. That's why they got an AWD car. but I'm not saying all EVO guys are like that. so if anyone drives an EVO here sorry.
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo View Post
Okay, check this out. I was talking w/ some friends who are BIG import guys and when I told them that I was getting the new Camaro they all started ragging on me.

One of them drives a new Evo. I think it has a turbo. Anyways, he was telling me that my main downfall to beating imports, especially his, is that off the line my tires will skid a lot and will cause me to lose. He said, on top of that, that he wouldn't race a muscle car anyways because RWD often causes the tail to almost hit him. Something like that.

My question is, what is the remedy for the tires skidding for the first few seconds of the race and how to control a fish tail.

Thanks for atleast reading my comment.
Look at my avatar. Do you see any tires skidding? I can't tell you how many imports I've spanked. I've out 60'd AWD cars too. Chassis setup, tires, knowing the car - it's all part of it.

If FWD or AWD were the way to go, you'd see it in a variation of Top Fuel. Tommy Ivo tried it and found that once you get into REAL horsepower, you lose the ability to aim the car. He had a 4-engine dragster that smoked all four wheels down the track. It was a handful!
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Loader View Post
Look at my avatar. Do you see any tires skidding? I can't tell you how many imports I've spanked. I've out 60'd AWD cars too. Chassis setup, tires, knowing the car - it's all part of it.

If FWD or AWD were the way to go, you'd see it in a variation of Top Fuel. Tommy Ivo tried it and found that once you get into REAL horsepower, you lose the ability to aim the car. He had a 4-engine dragster that smoked all four wheels down the track. It was a handful!
AMEN! to that
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by stovt001 View Post
Apparently he's only raced guys who can't drive and with horrible launch technique.

That was one thing I appreciated about Rev-It-Up. They taught you how to do really good launches. It is not nearly as simple as just smashing the peddle.

Again, learn to drive, then show your import friends how ignorant they are.
Rev-It-Up? Some sort of specialized driving school I guess. Wish there was one around here.

So this is what I've gathered so far:

Wide-Sticky tires
Dump the clutch at near redline RPM's
And hope that the Camaro comes out w/ somesort of handling technology such as ASR or Launch Control
. . . . . .
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo View Post
Rev-It-Up? Some sort of specialized driving school I guess. Wish there was one around here.

So this is what I've gathered so far:

Wide-Sticky tires
Dump the clutch at near redline RPM's
And hope that the Camaro comes out w/ somesort of handling technology such as ASR or Launch Control
. . . . . .
I dont think anyone said dump the clutch at near redline RPM's. I have no experience with a manual but im pretty sure thats bad.

Rev-It-Up is a i think a short thing chevy did where you could test drive a vette, cobalt ss, w/e around a track or parking lot with a proffesional instructor i think, Stovt001 correct me if i'm wrong.


And when you do get the camaro and race your friend, tail whip him anyway and beat him. Do it for me.
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Old 05-07-2008, 09:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo View Post
Wide-Sticky tires
Dump the clutch at near redline RPM's
And hope that the Camaro comes out w/ somesort of handling technology such as ASR or Launch Control
. . . . . .
You dump the clutch like that too many times on a OEM car, you're gonna break it. It's got to be built for things like that. Plus - that'll get you're tires spinning like your friend explained for sure.

To be honest, Mr. EVO doesn't seem to know very much about RWD cars...either that, or he's just speaking import. (yeah, it's a language )
The main downfall of you beating him in a new Camaro is if you let him have a headstart, that's all I can think of.
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:59 AM   #12
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Yeah....don't you dare drop a stocker at 6K RPM'S!!!...or redline, whatever.

ASR, or traction control, can help you out. But, it can also really screw you up if you do want to let those rear tires loose. It can cause you to stall out.
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:50 AM   #13
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I guess practice makes perfect...
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:20 AM   #14
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You really need to take a field trip to a drag strip and see how its done. talk to people. I would say get some stickier tires that stock but not full out slicks bc if somethings gotta give you want it to be your tires not your differential or clutch or whatever. Get some drag radials and go to the track. Learn how to warm them up and learn how far you can push them until you break them loose. Start off launching at 2,000 rpm and move up 500 rpm incriments. racing is just like any other sport, practice makes perfect. And tell your evo friend he dosent know what hes talking about.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo View Post
Rev-It-Up? Some sort of specialized driving school I guess. Wish there was one around here.

So this is what I've gathered so far:

Wide-Sticky tires
Dump the clutch at near redline RPM's
And hope that the Camaro comes out w/ somesort of handling technology such as ASR or Launch Control
. . . . . .
Absolutely not.
Sticky tires, yes. Forget launch control, they won't do that. Dumping the clutch near redline? ONLY if the car is set up to handle that. Too much and you'll shock the tires. Too little and you'll bog it. You have to know the car. That's what Test and Tune nights at the track are for. Or, get in on a track rental. Try 2 grand (2,000 RPM), dump the clutch, see how it reacts. Try 3 grand, try 4 grand, etc. You'll get a feel for what the car wants. Try 12, 15, 17 psi in the tires, 2 grand, 3 grand, 4 grand... If the car spins too much, you may not have enough downforce. Install AIRLIFT air springs. I think it's a part number 1000 for the Camaro. Install them with TWO air ports so you can adjust left and right separately. Try them with 5psi, 10psi, 15psi, etc. If the car twists (see my avatar - that was before I installed the airsprings), increase the PSI in the side that squats (to fix my avatar shot, it needed air in the right, rear). Tuning a car to launch and learning how to launch it takes time and effort (practice). Keep notes on every variable - including the temperature of the day and the humidity. Don't get discouraged. I've seen guys with 2.0 60-foot times do well in brackets. I've also seen them doing 1.80's by the end of the season.

Just revving to redline and dumping the clutch on the street is how you set your rear tires ablaze and wildly fishtail like your buddy was talking about. That only impresses the tire companies and your engine builder. There was a video of a guy doing just that on a boulevard street in an import. He lost control, came up over the curb/sidewalk, and crashed into several parked cars. Fortunately he missed all the people hanging around watching his show. I'm sure he felt really smooth after that one.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:37 AM   #16
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For me, the best launch technique on a stock (or near stock) 6-speed LS1 F-body is ASR off, keep the RPMs at around 2200-2300, slip the clutch just a little bit without mashing the throttle, but rather steadily increasing the amount of throttle while letting out the clutch.
The goal is to keep the rear tires at maximum grip while on the threshold of spinning them. A very small amount of wheelspin works for me. You'll soon feel when your tires have hooked and you can then put your foot to the floor without breaking them loose - that point comes pretty fast when I use this technique.
Again, this is with street tires.
It takes practise to get the timing and coordination just right, but once you nail it, it's relatively easy to maintain consistency as you use your senses to learn the right sound and "feel" of a good launch and can make miniscule adjustments while in the process.
When I used to drag race the car, my 60' times on street tires would usually fall somewhere between 1.97 - 2.05 using this technique.
I would much prefer the challenge of coordinating all this to get the perfect launch as "getting it right" provides a much greater sense of satisfaction for me than having computer software do it for me. It's a similar sense of accomplishment as nailing a difficult double-apex corner on a road course and as a result, the car ends up in just the right position on the track, 'cuz you were able to (finally) achieve your maximum exit speed on the corner!! What a rush!!
I'd never suggest that I could launch a car as well or as consistently with all the helpful technology that's available today, but I can't see myself having the same level of enjoyment of driving the car if I were to relinquish these aspects of control to the electronic nannies... well... maybe if I could turn them off at will!

Best regardSS,

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Old 05-08-2008, 09:19 AM   #17
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:20 AM   #18
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Although I can't nearly lift my front tires off the ground like Loader, my car can pull low 1.6 60s' with only engine bolt-ons and a stall converter. Let's see any crappy Evo do that with a stock turbo and long block.

Import guys are the worst when it comes to talking about racing. IMHO, most of their education (with the except of a few ) was from Fast and the Furious. They think a high-power Supra on street tires can actually pull, off the line, on a RWD musclecar on slicks... Right... I don't even engage in these kinds of conversations with ricers; I just show them timeslips.
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:04 AM   #19
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No one is going to rag on you and actually mean it after you have a Camaro.
That's like ragging on someone because his wife looks like a fashion model.

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Old 05-08-2008, 11:50 AM   #20
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Too funny. I can do four wheel spin in my Subaru (has no traction control at all) rather easily. Here is the problem with that.

When an AWD spins all 4 tires.....you simply MUST drop off the gas ASAP. Not ease it down either but let off quickly. Why? Well because if you don't, you are going to be headed rather quickly in any direction possible EXCEPT the direction you meant to originally...in a hurry. My Subaru tends to always...and I mean always turn left of right quickly in a 4 wheel spin...then suddenly the tires hook up (seems no warning at all) and I am off in a direction that might get me killed. I say this to say that AWD still takes practice for a safe proper launch. You have more traction yes...but after that it's all HP. I'll look forward to RWD serious power again. It was more predictable.


"Ready for a cool 4 wheel burnout?..." ...
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:55 AM   #21
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:58 AM   #22
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^YEah! That'd be scary as hell! ....do a burnout only to have the car go sideways towards a wall and then have it CATCH. AGH! Guess you have to be pretty quick on the steering wheel to get it back in the groove you want.
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:08 PM   #23
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:04 PM   #24
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Yup, practice really does make perfect. If you read a good car review article, they'll mention their technique for testing 1/4 mile times. It will take them a couple tries, and they'll say what RPM they got the best launch in. The trick is to find that RPM yourself, hook up cleanly if using a manual transmission, and getting smooth but quick throttle increase from there out. You have to get on the gas fast, but you can't stab it. Don't try to confuse your car.

Rev-It-Up is a really affordable performance driving school/autocrossing event/ general car weekend hosted by Chevrolet. Every year it goes through a number of cities. For $25 you get two slalom runs in a Vette, 2 competitive autocrossing runs (for prizes) in a Cobalt SS, unlimited practice runs, performance driving classes, and performance test drives of a number of Chevrolet vehicles (last year it was a Cobalt SS, HHR, Equinox Sport, Trailblazer SS, Silverado, and Impala SS). For a small extra fee you can take a ride in a professionally driven Z06 or race carts. If there is one near you, do it. It is a very fun event, you learn more about driving than you thought possible in one day, and it is a friggen steal. The best part is for $25 you race and abuse Chevy's cars, not your own.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo View Post
Okay, check this out. I was talking w/ some friends who are BIG import guys and when I told them that I was getting the new Camaro they all started ragging on me.

One of them drives a new Evo. I think it has a turbo. Anyways, he was telling me that my main downfall to beating imports, especially his, is that off the line my tires will skid a lot and will cause me to lose. He said, on top of that, that he wouldn't race a muscle car anyways because RWD often causes the tail to almost hit him. Something like that.

My question is, what is the remedy for the tires skidding for the first few seconds of the race and how to control a fish tail.

Thanks for atleast reading my comment.

are you racing a manual or automatic? manual ls1's I've went from a 2.2 60' to a 1.9 60' by not dumping the clutch at 2700 rpms but slipping it very fast. first 60' is where a race is won or lost, usually. as for the fish tail personal experience has been good I guess. I didn't fish tail unless going around a corner and goosing it. besides how close are you two going to be lining up next to each others? ones I've seen fish tail don't fish tail into another guys lane if at a drag strip. practice makes perfect. go out to a deserted road get a G-Tech pro and practice launching. but DON'T DROP the clutch at red line. especially on 98-02 camaros. you will break the stock 10 bolt.

Quote:
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It's hard when the front wheels are also powered. It just feels so different and doesn't behave in expected ways at times. The only solution is quick on the steering and let off all gas...correct steering and reapply gas. Obviously the real solution is to not do 4 wheel burn outs, but where is the fun in that?
how much power are/were you pullin in that thing? that's hard to do with stock power and dry pavement.
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