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Old 11-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #43
Austin45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps2ren View Post
They should follow the Germans and have a more unified naming system, link half of the model name to the car type, link the other half to the engine trim

BMW always start with car model number then engine number
Model number Z - 3 - 5 - 6 - 7 - M
i4 - ?28
i/v6 - ?35
V8 - ?45
V12 - ?50
tuned V8/V12 - M?

Benz also starts with car trim letter then follow with engine number
Model trims SL - C - E - S - CL - ML (also sub models for the L stuff, -LK, -LS)
i4 - ?300
i/v6 - ?350
V8 - ?550
V12 - ?600
tuned V8/V12 - ?AMG

AUDI is the one with a lot of exceptions, "A" trim can have any engine type
Model trim 4 - 6 - 7 - 8
i4/6/8 - A?
i/v6 - S?
V8 - RS?
V12 - W12
tuned V8/V12 - RS?

SS should be on par with M/AMG/RS badges, they should be allowed on small cars but only the actual sports models, like STI/EVO.
The current GM system is like Chrysler, adding R/T to EVERYTHING...... Avenger R/T /facepalm that works in short term but ruins the badge in the long run

They should keep the names for the car models, but unify the engine badges
i4 - LS
V6 - LT
V8 - SS
Super charged 4/6/8 - Z
The whole LT/RS/SS system is too complicated right now, just keep packages out of the badges, simply call the RS "sports package", call the 2 "luxury package"
Personally, I think BMW has the most confusing and complex naming system ever. Admittedly, Camaros don't have a basic naming system, but I think it works better than BMW. Also, calling the RS a sports package would be deceiving because you only get visual upgrades.

And don't down the Avenger R/T, there are two in my family, a 08 and a 12. I can speak from experience, they are awesome. Amazing cars with sport suspension, strut brace, and larger engines. They deserve the R/T badge.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Austin45 View Post
Personally, I think BMW has the most confusing and complex naming system ever. Admittedly, Camaros don't have a basic naming system, but I think it works better than BMW. Also, calling the RS a sports package would be deceiving because you only get visual upgrades.

And don't down the Avenger R/T, there are two in my family, a 08 and a 12. I can speak from experience, they are awesome. Amazing cars with sport suspension, strut brace, and larger engines. They deserve the R/T badge.
BMW system is exactly the same as the Benz system, except it only uses numbers instead of letters
Sure, name RS the "exterior package", either way the "no badge can be V6, RS badge is also V6 and SS is V8 that may or may not have RS package"
confused a LOT of ppl who asked me about my car, some were looking into buying a camaro
the Germans are a lot easier to understand to ppl who don't know much about their cars, which is a large chunk of the market
"for MB, the letter means the car type and the bigger the number the bigger than engine, AMG means most expensive and fastest of each car"

I'm sure R/T are nice cars, but it is falling behind the current gen FWD cars. Even the hothatchs start with 300+ bhp these days.
"classic trim" dodge with 280 is a bit underwhelming. I know power isn't everything, but avenger isn't exactly light compare to the new 300+ bhp hatchbacks.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:23 AM   #45
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BMW isn't confusing?

Let's see, we have the 1, 3, 5, 6, 7-series. All good so far.
Then instead of the 4-series, we have a Z3 and now Z4. Um. ok.
Then instead of an 8-series, there's the X5, now X3 and X1.

The performance models hang the M at the front. M3, M5 - Nice, easy. Except ..

1M, M3, M5, M6, Z3 M, Z4 M Coupe, Z8 M Coupe, X5 M, but wait, M635CSi??? Is that M or not? What's with the letters?

Put the M in the same place always and people will see it's M. Replacing the M with something else (X/Z) and people get confused. Then when you want to add an M you put it in the back. *facepalm*

I live in europe and I see BMWs all the time, way more than GM produced cars (bar SAABs and Opels of course), and I find it less confusing with GMs naming scheme than BMWs.

SAAB actually did something right - the performance model is the Aero. Simple as that, if it's Aero it's the performance model.

// Stefan
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:33 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Blast View Post
BMW isn't confusing?

Let's see, we have the 1, 3, 5, 6, 7-series. All good so far.
Then instead of the 4-series, we have a Z3 and now Z4. Um. ok.
Then instead of an 8-series, there's the X5, now X3 and X1.

The performance models hang the M at the front. M3, M5 - Nice, easy. Except ..

1M, M3, M5, M6, Z3 M, Z4 M Coupe, Z8 M Coupe, X5 M, but wait, M635CSi??? Is that M or not? What's with the letters?

Put the M in the same place always and people will see it's M. Replacing the M with something else (X/Z) and people get confused. Then when you want to add an M you put it in the back. *facepalm*

I live in europe and I see BMWs all the time, way more than GM produced cars (bar SAABs and Opels of course), and I find it less confusing with GMs naming scheme than BMWs.

SAAB actually did something right - the performance model is the Aero. Simple as that, if it's Aero it's the performance model.

// Stefan
How about, 1 3 5 6 7 are all standard cars vary by size, Z is roadster numbered by generation, X are SUV numbered by size.

The Ci/Csi are old system they don't use anymore, C means coupe. You are mixing old system with the new system

Let's compare that to Benz, you got the standard C E and S then the roadsters SLK SL SLS SLR, then the SUVs and 4x4s GLK ML M G,

then aside from the coupe variant of standard C and E class, you got the "real coupe" CLK, CL, then a "4 door coupe" CLS

Base price wise it's just chaos SLK < SL < SLS, but CLS < CLK < CL, what??? Also GLK < M < K < G ??????????

I know their placement of number and letters are unified, but the models and pricing are not, unlike BMW
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:18 AM   #47
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M550d, X5 M50d, X6 M50d.

The point is that it's confusing.

M5 is straightforward.

And you didn't answer the point where some have the M before, and some after the number.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #48
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GM must focus on product distinctiveness now that car making is truly global. Instead of market share it is customer loyalty and profit margin. Build in smaller volumes and keep prices/margins up. Its is also a lot more fun for them - and us.

For the Camaro that means true performance with 160 mph top end and quality somewhat exotic components in the powertrian. The 1LE is a beautiful product statement but the SS needs to have a real performance reputation as well.

Chevy can be BMW, Cadillac - Mercedes, Buick - Lexus/Infiniti, just keep it 'American'. I used to love seeing a V-8 STS Cadillac living in the UK. Ford is trying to be Toyota. Not sure where that will get them.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:26 AM   #49
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GM, please make it more difficult for the posers to water down the SS/ZL1 lines by allowing those body panels to easily fit the V6...
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Blast View Post
M550d, X5 M50d, X6 M50d.

The point is that it's confusing.

M5 is straightforward.

And you didn't answer the point where some have the M before, and some after the number.
M1 was a super car before and they didn't want to ruin the name with the new "semi M" hatch
As for the Z and X models, it makes perfect sense from a typography stand point, they want to emphasize the M by isolating the 2 letters so ppl don't read them together like MX or MZ

The M550d is because they already have M5, and they wanted to try diesel sports car.
The 550d part is exactly like 328i or 535xi, except they added an M to the front
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #51
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Here's what I would like to see; (limited to V8/RWD of course)
- SS Camaro
- SS Impala (the Imp. and Monte are supposed to both received a new V8/RWD platform)
- SS Monte Carlo
- SS Silverado
(and maybe an SS Corvette)

Limit the 'SS' badge. Putting it on too many models weakens the image IMO.
That's called "limiting" to you? Wow, you're a model for restraint!
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:33 AM   #52
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Ummm, how old is this? It talks about Pontiac?
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:35 AM   #53
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Oh I know why they call stuff that but to someone uniitiated it looks confusing.

Thing is that they could have solved things way more cleanly.

M550d ? Call it M5d simply, why mix it up with numbers? That's what's confusing.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:42 AM   #54
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Oh I know why they call stuff that but to someone uniitiated it looks confusing.

Thing is that they could have solved things way more cleanly.

M550d ? Call it M5d simply, why mix it up with numbers? That's what's confusing.
But that's not a popular model...... benz popular models have much worse codes that do not signify the car trim clearly, then you got the C63 CL65 SLK55 amg crap up top

M550d is just one model, it's like the ZL1 camaro, except the code actually mean something instead of just a reminiscent of the past
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:45 AM   #55
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I'm with you on the "M" being all over the place. BMW is worst with its prolific use of M than Chevy with "SS", but that isn't saying much. The problem is that Chevy makes dirt cheap common cars like the Cobalt and Malibu and sticks "SS" on them.

Every time I see a "Cobalt SS" I just shake my head. Maybe they do have something under the hood, but every one of them just look like base models that someone just stuck a badge on. They're just very uninteresting cars.

A "performance oriented" model has to also LOOK and SOUND hot. I'm not against any model having a performance badge so long as it looks the part, which the Malibu/Cobalt etc. do not. Oh yeah, and FWD is also a no-no for a performance badge.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:48 AM   #56
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I'm with you on the "M" being all over the place. BMW is worst with its prolific use of M than Chevy with "SS", but that isn't saying much. The problem is that Chevy makes dirt cheap common cars like the Cobalt and Malibu and sticks "SS" on them.

Every time I see a "Cobalt SS" I just shake my head. Maybe they do have something under the hood, but every one of them just look like base models that someone just stuck a badge on. They're just very uninteresting cars.

A "performance oriented" model has to also LOOK and SOUND hot. I'm not against any model having a performance badge so long as it looks the part, which the Malibu/Cobalt etc. do not. Oh yeah, and FWD is also a no-no for a performance badge.
I agree. SS currently means "the hottest version of this car" but, why stick it on totally lame models? Why? If a maker (Like SAAB) specialize in only FWD cars, they can stick their "top" badge on whatever top model they have, 9-3 Aero, 9-5 Aero cause they don't have anything hotter, but a company that makes such diverse cars as GM with just one brand shouldn't stick a moniker like SS on some platforms ... In my opinion ..

// Stefan
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