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Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

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Old 09-06-2009, 11:18 PM   #1
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they killed the thread/so here is another

previous comment: Its true that a live axle is antiquated tech, and that IRS is all the rage...but if your statement of live axle < IRS is true in all cases, than why does the GT500 with its live axle do better in lateral gs and the slalom? Just food for thought.

Ford has performed a miracle with the GT500 & the GT/Track Pack handling wise, but they are at the max for it.
On the other hand the SS suspension is just in its infancy. Just wait and see where it goes from here.

As a side note if it can run as well as the posted track (Laguna Seca) times wait till the handling is sorted out. What other cars will the Camaro beat?

These are laptimes from Mazda Laguna Seca submited mostly by motortrend....

1. Devon GTX 1:35.075 136 ´ 659 / - DMW
2. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 1:35.117 136 ´08 600 / 1536 Motor Trend
3. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:35.8 135 ´08 647 / 1519 Motortrend
4. Porsche 997 GT3 1:39.517 130 ´06 415 / 1395 Motortrend
5. Nissan GT-R 1:39.62 130 ´08 479 / 1740 Edmunds
6. Porsche 997 Turbo 1:39.89 130 ´06 480 / 1585 Timed by Edmunds.com
7. Audi R8 1:40.8 129 ´06 420 / 1560 Motor Trend
8. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:40.9 129 ´05 513 / 1437.3 Motor Trend
9. BMW M3 (E92) 1:42.964 126 ´07 420 / 1619 Motor Trend
10. Porsche Cayman S(facelift) PDK 1:43.0 126 ´08 320 / 1350 Motor Trend
11. Cadillac CTS-V 1:43.9 125 ´09 556 / 1908 Motortrend
12. Ford Shelby GT500 1:44.3 124 ´10 547 / 1770 Motortrend
13. Ford Shelby GT500 1:44.716 124 ´06 507 / 1807 Motor Trend
14. Porsche 997 Carrera (2008 facelift) 1:45.0 123 ´08 345 / 1415 Car and Driver
15. Chevrolet Camaro SS 2010 1:45.7 123 ´10 432 / 1750 Motor Trend
16. Lotus Exige 240R 1:45.818 123 ´05 247 / 941 Motortrend
17. Toyota Supra RZ 1:45.87 122 ´94 284 / 1640 Kurosawa Motoharu
18. BMW 135i Coupe (E82) 1:46.0 122 ´07 306 / 1485 Motortrend
19. Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:46.5 122 ´09 355 / 1500 Motortrend
20. Porsche Cayman S 1:47.577 121 ´05 295 / 1406 Motortrend
21. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X MR 1:47.713 120 ´08 295 / 1585 MotorTrend
22. Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 1:47.751 120 ´08 260 / 1352 Motor Trend
23. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 1:47.926 120 ´05 290 / 1482 Motortrend
24. BMW 335i Coupe 1:49.038 119 ´06 306 / 1610 Motortrend
25. Porsche 997 Carrera S 1:50.0 118 ´04 355 / 1420 Motortrend
26. Mazda 3 MPS 1:50.375 117 ´06 260 / 1485 Motortrend
27. Mazda RX-8 1:50.418 117 ´02 231 / 1379 Motor Trend
28. Honda S2000 1:50.738 117 ´99 239 / 1260 Motortrend
29. Mini Mini Cooper S Works GP Kit 1:51.733 116 ´06 218 / 1180 Motortrend
30. Mazda MX-5 Grand Touring 1:52.2 116 ´09 162 / 1165 Motortrend
31. Honda Civic SI 1:54.990 113 ´06 197 / 1330 Motortrend
32. Honda NSX 1:57 111 ´04 280 / 1330 Jeremy Clarkson

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track16.html
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:21 PM   #2
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bastard you took my post..... LMAO
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:22 PM   #3
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:22 PM   #4
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Nice. And since you got the first post, they can't say it's off topic in this thread.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:27 PM   #5
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bastard you took my post..... LMAO
Sorry Dude!
I wanted that thread to continue, but only in a different direction.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:29 PM   #6
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1-14 are all more expensive than the Camaro, some are like 4x more expensive.

I think IRS is the better handler on the street, certainly gives a better ride.

The racetrack is pretty smooth and even the Ford could go faster if you threw some dollars at it.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:29 PM   #7
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Ford has worked on the live axel for sooooooo long they have it damn near perfected. On the other side think of how far behind the 8-ball they are going to be when GM perfects the IRS on the camaro..... Im just sayin
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:30 PM   #8
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IRS vs live axle?
Owned both, but when I saw the # I was shocked. So I talked with a good friend who know more about this then I do he said it easier to make a live axle handle better then IRS, due to the simpler design, but if you get the IRS set up look out. Anyone care to discuss.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:31 PM   #9
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bastard you took my post..... LMAO
...I remember that post.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:32 PM   #10
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Slightly random, but some people in other threads of this nature seem to not understand what Leguna Seca is. It is a 2.238mile track that encompasses all the turn types that you would encounter in most road or road track situations. It does have several good straight-aways that would give a car with power like the Camaro an edge over smaller powered engines, but no real elevation changes.



Now, some of these imports just might beat us down the Tail of the Dragon. I would love to see someone do a speed run down this with a Camaro, but I don't have the balls to try it. Did it on my motorcycle once, and that was a fun run.

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Old 09-06-2009, 11:32 PM   #11
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Could we shave a second off the time? What about two?
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:35 PM   #12
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I hate that crap, who knows what inept driver was driving or who was paid off to skew results. I hate Motor Trend. Sniffling little spoiled Yuppies! Ohhhh MY BMW, MY MERCEDES!

Only trust half of what you read!
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:36 PM   #13
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Could we shave a second off the time? What about two?
At seca?
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:37 PM   #14
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I'll use my Miata to tame the Dragon! It's great in tight turns, but the Camaro (set up properly) is for all out road racing! Yeah, Baby!
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:37 PM   #15
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I hate that crap, who knows what inept driver was driving or who was paid off to skew results. I hate Motor Trend. Sniffling little spoiled Yuppies! Ohhhh MY BMW, MY MERCEDES!
Not that I like motortrend but their lap times at race tracks seem to be good to go.... they know they would get called out if it was BS. To many weekend warriors frequent open track days to let them get away with anything.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:51 PM   #16
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Last time I was at Deal's Gap (tail of the dragon) there was a Camaro there. As well as Vettes Vipers and it was 350Z weekend.

Didn't watch any of them.

It's a nice road, but hard to get a clean run. Usually I get held up alot waiting for the opportune time to pass a minivan or Harley.

Show up there on a weeknight around 5pm and you will get a clean run with not much traffic and usually no cops.

I really prefer to run UP the tight side though.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:56 PM   #17
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Of course, the Mustang's live axle is completely tapped out, nowhere to go from here. I like it better when you guys look surprised.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Ford has worked on the live axel for sooooooo long they have it damn near perfected. On the other side think of how far behind the 8-ball they are going to be when GM perfects the IRS on the camaro..... Im just sayin
You could say the same thing about GM and pushrod V8 engines ...

Anyway, now that there has been some track tests of the SS's handling it seems clear to me that GM left room for improvement on its setup.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:30 AM   #19
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You could say the same thing about GM and pushrod V8 engines ...

Anyway, now that there has been some track tests of the SS's handling it seems clear to me that GM left room for improvement on its setup.
I would agree, but will never give up my Wifes Camaro.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:31 AM   #20
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You could say the same thing about GM and pushrod V8 engines ...

Anyway, now that there has been some track tests of the SS's handling it seems clear to me that GM left room for improvement on its setup.
Camaro's handling issues should be very simple to resolve with a producable setup that doesn't degrade ride quality.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:39 AM   #21
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Camaro's handling issues should be very simple to resolve with a producable setup that doesn't degrade ride quality.
The two advantage of a IRS is ride and breaking in corners. I hope to see improvement in the near future.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:39 AM   #22
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The 2010 Camaro handles like a 3800lb car should. It's heavy so you really can't throw it around like a 3500lb car. But WE ALL KNEW THAT!!, Car is 3800lbs!!

Now, the BIG issue is the MAJOR, almost dangerous understeer that the Camaro has. I really think this should be addressed by the factory and maybe some sort of campaign later on when its fixed. I have a funny feeling the 2011 will NOT be staggered like the 2010. Something went wrong for sure.

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Old 09-07-2009, 09:46 AM   #23
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The two advantage of a IRS is ride and breaking in corners. I hope to see improvement in the near future.
It's pretty obvious that rear spring rates are way too soft and the car is under-tired up front. Ultimately this makes front end work way too hard while the rear is kinda just along for the ride in some cases. Should be an easy fix for GM, I'll be curious to see if they address the issue for the 2011my.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:51 AM   #24
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The 2010 Camaro handles like a 3800lb car should. It's heavy so you really can't throw it around like a 3500lb car. But WE ALL KNEW THAT!!, Car is 3800lbs!!

Now, the BIG issue is the MAJOR, almost dangerous understeer that the Camaro has. I really think this should be addressed by the factory and maybe some sort of campaign later on when its fixed. I have a funny feeling the 2011 will NOT be staggered like the 2010. Something went wrong for sure.

-bobby
Actually, the issues I address above means that the Camaro really does act like a heavier car than it is. If GM does address the issue my guess is that a simple rear spring swap to whatever newer units the General moves to and a wider front tire will do wonders for existing cars. Of course, it isn't all a bed of roses. Those wider front wheels and tires will hurt steering feel, and the as this is an area where the Camaro has already taken some lumps GM might want to take a look at the racks on these cars while they are under there. Unfortunately, this is the one issue which may not be such an easy fix for owners. To wit, fixing the understeer issue on existing cars may make the steering noticeably worse.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:39 AM   #25
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previous comment: Its true that a live axle is antiquated tech, and that IRS is all the rage...but if your statement of live axle < IRS is true in all cases, than why does the GT500 with its live axle do better in lateral gs and the slalom? Just food for thought.

Ford has performed a miracle with the GT500 & the GT/Track Pack handling wise, but they are at the max for it.
On the other hand the SS suspension is just in its infancy. Just wait and see where it goes from here.

As a side note if it can run as well as the posted track (Laguna Seca) times wait till the handling is sorted out. What other cars will the Camaro beat?




http://www.fastestlaps.com/track16.html

Spoken like a true fanboy.

There is a lot more room for tweaking with the live axle setup. Unfortunately Ford sells to more than just racetrack drivers. They have to also think about a compliant ride for all the different people who might potentially buy the car. Ford has the best suspension engineers in the business. How else do you explain this antiquated live axle handling so well.

You must forget that the Camaro is 3800lbs. Tweak away and it might move up one spot on your list.
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