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Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission Tune and diagnostics for engines and auto transmission.

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Old 09-07-2009, 06:26 PM   #1
general23cmp
 
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Reprogramming without a dyno

I know it can be done, but are the results good? I don't have a dyno, nor will ever have one, but can get HP Tuners and a laptop. Is it software worth getting to reprogram a car for upgrades if I have no dyno? Can I drive it around and log data and eventually have a very good tune (probably need a wideband, right?)?

No need wasting money on software that will not get me anything better than stock. I know I can learn to use the software with time....I'm an engineer, gearhead, and have read numerous books/forums on ECU programming. I just havent done it yet.

Let's not consider that I would be able to change my gears, speed limits, and other paramters like that....I'm talking strictly about engine performance.

Thanks...
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:48 PM   #2
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We don't have a dyno here in Cayman yet but hopefully soon.
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Old 09-20-2009, 03:26 PM   #3
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I would like to know this myself
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Old 09-22-2009, 02:04 PM   #4
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I know of a quit a few cars that are street tuned so it isn't unheard of by any means. What mods do you have planned for your car? I ask because for me that would be the deciding factor between getting a hand held programmer like the Max Energy and investing the time/money into street tuning a car. Just wondering if they payoff will be there for you. One one hand you'll be able to say hey I tuned my own car on the other you could find yourself chasing little things.
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Old 09-22-2009, 02:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by general23cmp View Post
I know it can be done, but are the results good? I don't have a dyno, nor will ever have one, but can get HP Tuners and a laptop. Is it software worth getting to reprogram a car for upgrades if I have no dyno? Can I drive it around and log data and eventually have a very good tune (probably need a wideband, right?)?

No need wasting money on software that will not get me anything better than stock. I know I can learn to use the software with time....I'm an engineer, gearhead, and have read numerous books/forums on ECU programming. I just havent done it yet.

Let's not consider that I would be able to change my gears, speed limits, and other paramters like that....I'm talking strictly about engine performance.

Thanks...
I can tell you this I have been tuning GM cars for as long as they had fuel injection, GM did not leave us much hidden power in these cars, More in the auto than the stick.

If you can find 10 hp your doing great, where the biggest differences show up are in the torque managment.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:09 PM   #6
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A dyno is a very important tool for tuning but it is not the be all- end all. There is no way for a person to tell if you made a 3 rwhp gain or loss. It takes a machine of a driver and super consistent conditions to show very accurate results up at the track. So if you have a good loading dyno with consistent conditions and you do things with a scientific precision you will have good results. The 2010 Camaros do not tune out like most other cars. They like to be a good bit richer and the timing needs to be completely redone from how GM has set them up. We've done 7 of them so far and the first couple only picked up 5-10 but we almost always get 12-15rwhp out of them now.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:25 PM   #7
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A dyno is a very important tool for tuning but it is not the be all- end all. There is no way for a person to tell if you made a 3 rwhp gain or loss. It takes a machine of a driver and super consistent conditions to show very accurate results up at the track. So if you have a good loading dyno with consistent conditions and you do things with a scientific precision you will have good results. The 2010 Camaros do not tune out like most other cars. They like to be a good bit richer and the timing needs to be completely redone from how GM has set them up. We've done 7 of them so far and the first couple only picked up 5-10 but we almost always get 12-15rwhp out of them now.
Do you tune with the hood shut?
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:55 AM   #8
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I got insane torque out of my tune. Plus it utilized my cai ported tb and mbrp pipes.
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:32 PM   #9
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I had my car tuned with out using a dyno by Fasterproms and the performace gains measured by the butt dyno are awsome!! I have yet to put it back on the dyno but my guess is that i will see high gains in torque across the RPM ranges and some HP gain.
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:43 AM   #10
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you will need a wide band o2
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Do you tune with the hood shut?
LOL, I like this guy!

Yes you certanly can tune without a dyno. I am feeling my age here since I have been tuning cars long before chassis dynos were re invented and improved by Dynojet.

I remember the old 2 roller Clayton dynos, we had 400 + pounds in the trunk and strapped down hard. Still a 400 horspower car would spin the tires.

Most of what I tuned was at the track, one pass at a time. We weren't concerned about drivability on those cars.

Because I live in the country I have done a ton of tunning and logging with my Camaro. (all with the hood down LOL) . Once I am happy I make the trip to the dyno or race track to back up my results.

I would save several tunes and try them at the track.

One thing that I want to add, just because it makes good numbers on the dyno doesn't mean that it will perform at the track. The dyno is just a tool to get you close. I have found that the dyno tune isn't the fastest way down the track.

And remember, your not going to feel or notice 10 horsepower. Be more concerned about average than peak power.

Good luck and BE SAFE!

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Old 09-25-2009, 09:33 PM   #12
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Dyno. Totally not necessary. Welcome to the myth of tuning and the hype of Pro Shops.
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