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Old 05-31-2008, 04:46 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
the battle of words. . .lol. I really believe that people still believe what the media has told them over and over again. JAP cars are so much better then American cars. I can't tell you how man times I've heard so many negative comments about american cars and trucks until they get into my truck then they are surprised. lol. but believe what you want.
The media does not dictate the trends, consumers do. The media is just devils advocate for the U.S. auto industry. My co-worker who just bout a new CTS has shown the car to all his family and friends and let's everyone drive it, he's said he hasn't heard one negative comment made about his car yet. Rather how impressed people are that Cadillac/GM have come this far with such a credible product that they wouldn't mind having themselves. In essence owners of the latest GM products have become brand ambassadors (as for almost every other auto brand), and with the latest GM products I think most can't help but be impressed, and that is a straight up and down objective disposition.
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:52 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post
The media does not dictate the trends, consumers do. The media is just devils advocate for the U.S. auto industry. My co-worker who just bout a new CTS has shown the car to all his family and friends and let's everyone drive it, he's said he hasn't heard one negative comment made about his car yet. Rather how impressed people are that Cadillac/GM have come this far with such a credible product that they wouldn't mind having themselves. In essence owners of the latest GM products have become brand ambassadors (as for almost every other auto brand), and with the latest GM products I think most can't help but be impressed, and that is a straight up and down objective disposition.
well I can't tell you how many rags (motortrend, automobile, etc) I've picked up and they talk how good a car/truck is but trash it in the finalreview. . .only because it's american. people believe what they are told. most people don't think for themselves anymore.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:28 PM   #203
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My wife had a civic, had 200,000 on the odometer when it was trashed. Not bad, but, that was after 2 expensive timing belt changes and a blown head gasket. And they still say these are wonderful cars? They didn't have to pay the bill for the head gasket!
Mom's caddy...150,000, valve covers never been off, still going strong. Bro's Chev pickup, 250,000 same. cutlass wagon popped a head gasket...but at 280,000 miles! And these are all 90's models. Ricers are brainwashed. BTW the fit-finish was about body panels, you want to talk quality, let's talk. Remember, the above cars are all family cars, not "My friends moms boyfriends Japassissi went 5 jillion miles without an oil change.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:55 PM   #204
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You know, I like you, really I do, because you say you're buying American. But...

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I highly doubt the quality is going to be anywhere near as good as you are imagining here. In my opinion, it will take years for GM to catch up to Nissan and Toyota for example in terms of build quality for cars in the same price range.
It's already better.

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What I mean by this is that after the Camaro is released, it will take years to see whether the build quality of the Camaro remains strong and free from issue's for the large majority of them sold.
I think this is a generalization that would apply to any new model made by any MFG. But when the folks working on the GM lines talk about how proud they are of the new cars coming out because they're seeing the quality up close, I'll rest on their comments for now.

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Currently reliability and American cars aren't two words that go together in the automotive world I'm sad to say considering it used to be just the opposite.
HUH? Did you copy and paste that comment from MOTOR TREND?

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I've had a Pontiac G6 that I bought brand new a few years ago and it has been by all accounts a lemon of a car going back to the dealer once every few months for major problems that you rarely see in Toyota's or Nissan's in the first few years.
Yeah, my son can tear up an anvil too, I don't know how he does it.
Give him a Toy or Nisnon, he'll tear it up.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:13 PM   #205
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Been watching for a while and reading but have not posted before, thought you all might find this interesting in light of the above comments about the quality of US autos, interestingly GM and Ford are noted for their improvement and BOTH finished in front of Toyota, Volkswagen was number 1, which includes Audi:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...y-survey_N.htm


Here is the bottom line:
VW, which includes Audi, led all corporations with a total quality index score of 892 out of 1,000 possible points. General Motors (GM) finished second as a corporation at 867, followed by Ford Motor (F) and Honda (HMC), which tied for third at 862. Toyota (TM) finished fifth, at the industry average of 860.

VW, GM and Ford were the only corporations showing improvement in this year's survey.
jmliptak,

Great first post!

Welcome to the site.

See ya roun' the boards.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:18 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
You know, I like you, really I do, because you say you're buying American. But...

It's already better.

I think this is a generalization that would apply to any new model made by any MFG. But when the folks working on the GM lines talk about how proud they are of the new cars coming out because they're seeing the quality up close, I'll rest on their comments for now.

HUH? Did you copy and paste that comment from MOTOR TREND?

Yeah, my son can tear up an anvil too, I don't know how he does it.
Give him a Toy or Nisnon, he'll tear it up.
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:11 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
My wife had a civic, had 200,000 on the odometer when it was trashed. Not bad, but, that was after 2 expensive timing belt changes and a blown head gasket. And they still say these are wonderful cars? They didn't have to pay the bill for the head gasket!
Mom's caddy...150,000, valve covers never been off, still going strong. Bro's Chev pickup, 250,000 same. cutlass wagon popped a head gasket...but at 280,000 miles! And these are all 90's models. Ricers are brainwashed. BTW the fit-finish was about body panels, you want to talk quality, let's talk. Remember, the above cars are all family cars, not "My friends moms boyfriends Japassissi went 5 jillion miles without an oil change.
My '88 S-10 Blazer has 331,000 on the 2.8 V-6 original engine 4wd, that engine has never been "opened up", no blue smoke when you start/run it, nothing other than routine maintainence, a couple of water pumps and a rebuilt TBI injector. My '94 Jimmy had 227,000 on it and was in perfect shape (original 4.3 V-6 4 wd never opened up) when some fool ran a stop sign and t-boned it, totaled it. My '95 Chevy 20 Series van is doing just fine with 137,000 or so miles on it, my '99 Blazer 4.3 4 wd with around 104,000 miles had it's first tuneup not too long ago. I have gotten excellent durability with many GM vehicles, fit and finish has been good to excellent in all of my trucks, nobody can tell me that GM does not have good build quality.
Clyde
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:34 PM   #208
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Supermans - I hope you put your flame-proof suit on

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Old 05-31-2008, 07:41 PM   #209
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a Camaro martyr

One GM employee was fired over recent assembly line photos. Article is by Leftlane.
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:11 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
the battle of words. . .lol. I really believe that people still believe what the media has told them over and over again. JAP cars are so much better then American cars. I can't tell you how man times I've heard so many negative comments about american cars and trucks until they get into my truck then they are surprised. lol. but believe what you want.
Speaking with someone at work that I already knew was an American car hater actually has made it clear he won't even buy a car built in this country. Regardless of what make it is.

Yet he states how hot the new Camaro and G8 are... (Yes, I know the G8 is built in Australia. I'm not sure he knows that, and I didn't think to mention it.)
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:13 PM   #211
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Supermans, I will give you due credit...the G6 is a piece of crap. The list goes on forever on things that Pontiac knows is wrong with the car but won't address (recall) because they technically won't cause a safety concern.

Of the many things to mention, the ECM randomly resets...you can tell this happens by your car alarm randomly setting itself off...while driving down the road...and your radio clock and presets ago haywire to default. Also the steering columns just fail at will. As in, can't hold up the weight of the sterring wheel anymore and just flops around. Then there's the faulty rotors that were in some year models.

I speak from experience, we traded our '06 G6 GT in for the Trailblazer and it was good riddance, none of the above things would get covered by warranty because they couldnt' be proven to be defective (except the rotors, which they said is "normal wear and tear" on a car with <20k miles on it).

Anyway the point is, the G6 has the chance of leaving a poor taste in anyone's mouth who's owned one, and all I can offer up is that it is NOT the norm for GM these days. It's a serious stain for them but the typical genre for them doesn't care (cheaper sports-car feel for low cost...they don't complain) so they probably won't address it, it's not a public enough problem.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:41 PM   #212
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Supermans, I will give you due credit...the G6 is a piece of crap. The list goes on forever on things that Pontiac knows is wrong with the car but won't address (recall) because they technically won't cause a safety concern.

Of the many things to mention, the ECM randomly resets...you can tell this happens by your car alarm randomly setting itself off...while driving down the road...and your radio clock and presets ago haywire to default. Also the steering columns just fail at will. As in, can't hold up the weight of the sterring wheel anymore and just flops around. Then there's the faulty rotors that were in some year models.

I speak from experience, we traded our '06 G6 GT in for the Trailblazer and it was good riddance, none of the above things would get covered by warranty because they couldnt' be proven to be defective (except the rotors, which they said is "normal wear and tear" on a car with <20k miles on it).

Anyway the point is, the G6 has the chance of leaving a poor taste in anyone's mouth who's owned one, and all I can offer up is that it is NOT the norm for GM these days. It's a serious stain for them but the typical genre for them doesn't care (cheaper sports-car feel for low cost...they don't complain) so they probably won't address it, it's not a public enough problem.


Just for the record, I love my G6. I loved my Grand Prix more, but had to trade it in as the wife needed to learn on something smaller (anyone makes a pun and I'm calling the suburbans).

I've found the tranny on my G6 to be significantly better than the one on my Grandprix. I would say it is comparable to any Honda I have driven (this is a compliment, Honda's trannys are good).

The only issue I have with my G6 is that my door is starting to creak when I open it, but I think that is the fault of the poor quality of Toronto's roads than any fault in the G6.

Ok, back to Camaro talk....
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:55 PM   #213
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I was recently in a G6 rental. It looks good on the outside, but the problem is that the interior feels cheaper than most new GM models. It's still nice, but everything else seems so much nicer.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:44 PM   #214
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Just for the record, I love my G6. I loved my Grand Prix more, but had to trade it in as the wife needed to learn on something smaller (anyone makes a pun and I'm calling the suburbans).
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:07 AM   #215
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So, how 'bout dem Cowboys! :bangdesk:
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:52 AM   #216
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Production Line Photos?

Hey guys i found this last night when i was just looking around on the net wasn't sure if anyone has posted this (i did a search to see if anyone did) but i thought everyone would find it interesting.

Edited with thread here:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4198
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:59 AM   #217
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Nice, we have had pics like this before, I can't tell if they are new or not. they all loook the same to me until they are finished.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:58 AM   #218
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I found a couple of these yesterday.
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:17 AM   #219
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Yes, these have been posted. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4198
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:08 PM   #220
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Nice to see those again. Hopefully, they'll be up and running very soon to get Camaro on the streets fighting them 'Stangs and Mopars.
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