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Old 06-29-2006, 03:02 PM   #1
94blackcamaroz28
 
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Thumbs up ZL1 Camaro

Guys, for the most part, cant we assume that GM will produce the camaro once again? I mean look Ford has brought back the Mustang. Now mind you, I hate mustangs with a passion, but you have to admit they dont look that bad, and they are selling a boat load of them. If GM doesnt bring back the stang stomper what will they bring out? I mean the GTO is not exactly a muscle car, hell it looks like a grand prix sedan, not the old body lines of the goat. So GM has to do something, and this something is bring back the camaro.

Now lets talk about options...Z28...SS....ZL1...V6... GM will have to address each of these I think. And of course produce a convertible

A V-6 is a must for people who want a break on their insurance, especially young drivers. But why not throw in the 6speed transmission and do away with the 5speed? Put 4.10 gears in the rear and add the 6speed, which will compensate for the HP loss since its not a V8.

As far as the Z28 and the SS...I dont know that much differences btw the 2. Now I realize the SS comes with different wheels, badges, and maybe some more horsepower...what was is the main diff? I know in my 4th gen, there was a 30 - 35 hp difference. And a different hood and wheels.

Now what I would like to talk about...the ZL1...GM came out with 69 ZL1 '69 camaros and two 69 corvettes. They had the 427 engine with a boat-load of HP. Now, granted if GM brings out the camaro...the Z28 model will have 400hp eating up the Mustang GT...but what is going to compete with the Mustang GT500? The corvette will walk all over the GT500...personally I think the only domestic car that will even compete with the ZO6 is the Viper...but thats my personal opinion. Therefore, GM needs to bring back the ZL1. Lets say GM brings out the camaro in '09. Of course the Z06 will have more HP, so why not throw the stock 427 engine from the current Z06 into a camaro and call it a ZL1?

Now, what about pricing? GM has to stay competitive with the market, and make these babies affordable.

V-6 model this has to stay less than 22K to compete with Ford
Z28 model what do you think is a good price? I'd say <28K
SS model roughly 2-3K more than the Z28
ZL1 model ford claims that the GT500 will be less than what 45K? So make the ZL1 roughly the same price.

I know that I have talked quite a bit here, but I know as well as any other avid camaro guru that thought of GM bring back this car is keeping everyone on the edge of their seats.

Feel free to make any comments, I'm curious as to what you guys think of my synopsis.
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Old 07-01-2006, 01:51 PM   #2
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If those were the options, sign me up for an ss
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Old 07-01-2006, 01:52 PM   #3
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oh by the way, the msrp for the gt500 is 42,500 according to fords website, but yeah good estimate on the prices of the camaro hopefully gm wont overprice because i want an affordable ss if they even make an ss
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Old 07-02-2006, 05:50 PM   #4
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Cool

I really don't think the GTO was/is a design issue. After all, it's a Monaro, not a "start from scratch" vehicle!

As for the new Camaro...

Hurry up and build it. I have a ton of ideas to get to market for this Mustang killer!

Ed
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Old 07-05-2006, 06:30 AM   #5
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Thanks for the input guys. 42500 isnt a bad price for the GT500. I just hope that they revive the ZL1, but I guess we will have to wait and see.
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Old 07-05-2006, 06:32 AM   #6
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Ed, I didnt mean to knock the GTO at all. I mean it is an impressive performance car and I have actually ridden in one. They definitely get up and go. I guess I was just looking for the old Judge that Pontiac once had thats all. And as for the camaro...bring the dam thing back!
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Old 07-12-2006, 06:28 AM   #7
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i like the idea you have aof putting the z06 motor in as a special package. when the new camaro comes out i was planning on goign to the dealership and ordering one and i was goign to see if they could do a custom order. i wanted to see if they could put the 427 in for me. i dont know what the chances would be that they would do this for me but i thought it would be pretty cool if they could.


doing the 427 is an option for getting at the gt500 but i also think that they need to do like ford does and get help from someone like they have carol shelby helping them on this. chevy should team up with lingenfelter and just build a monster to cream the gt500
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Old 07-16-2006, 02:24 PM   #8
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I think a ZL1 would work well for the camaro and sell enough to make it worth it for GM. I know myself and plenty of other ppl that would want the power of the Z06 corvette but in a car that isnt the corvette, something with some more room, a backseat and that can still be used for everyday use instead of a roadster/coupe kinda car that the corvette is.
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Old 07-17-2006, 03:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlacLac02
i like the idea you have aof putting the z06 motor in as a special package. when the new camaro comes out i was planning on goign to the dealership and ordering one and i was goign to see if they could do a custom order. i wanted to see if they could put the 427 in for me. i dont know what the chances would be that they would do this for me but i thought it would be pretty cool if they could.
yah I think we all like the idea of Z06 engine in this car but at what cost

Hah do any dealers really allow you go choose engines like that
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:01 PM   #10
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if you got enough money they will do what ever you want them to do. back in the late 60's-70's you could chose from like 3 or maybe 4 different motors for a car. and what trim package you wanted. i dont see why you wouldnt be able to have the 7.0l put in since it is a real motor that gm produces. its not like a fable creature that doesnt exist. its out there and its possible. especially if they already were talking about having"100 extra horses on tap" for the gt500. it will be an option. maybe not right away but 1-2 years after
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Old 07-26-2006, 02:00 PM   #11
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I'm gonna get me a 1LE (allways wanted one), and get the biggest Rustang killer they make.
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Old 08-01-2006, 10:53 AM   #12
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Don't forget the Challenger. The 6.1 425hp is just for starters. A 500 plus hp 6.4 will be seen in 09 or 10. There are those of us out here in our mid to upper 40's who just missed the horsepower ride in the 60's & 70's because we were born a bit too late. No excuses now. I've been gagging over minivans, 4 cylinders, and suvs long enough!!!!! I WANT A BIG BLOCK, BIG HORSEPOWER, MUSCLECAR, PERIOD. And I've got $40,000 to $50,000 to spend on it!!
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:23 PM   #13
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I'll bet that once the new Camaro is out (fingers crossed that it it produced), you will see a few dealers offering special models, ie., Tom Hery, Berger, etc.
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Old 08-11-2006, 03:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose
I'll bet that once the new Camaro is out (fingers crossed that it it produced), you will see a few dealers offering special models, ie., Tom Hery, Berger, etc.
We make ZL1 motors every day look at the 6.2 Escalade Motor.
We are ready for whatever it takes Green or Muscle
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Old 08-15-2006, 03:01 AM   #15
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ZL1 is a must

With all the recent talk about the fabled SS or Stingray supervette, wouldn't it be obvious that with increased vette hp it would mean increased camaro hp? At 45k or so, GM wouldn't sell to many of the so called target group (20 somethings), but me being a 30 something, I would jump at the chance to have an early mid-life crisis.
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Old 08-15-2006, 03:03 AM   #16
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Gotta love that Berger Chevrolet is 45 minutes from my front door! Build it and they will not only come but flock to the showroom.
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:03 PM   #17
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Gotta love that Berger Chevrolet is 45 minutes from my front door! Build it and they will not only come but flock to the showroom.
Yeah, Berger is about 45 minutes away from my front door too. I would like to see what they come up with next. I don't know if it will be worth it though. The Gen 4's they hopped up were over priced for the mods they installed; could have done that in my driveway for a lot less... Shoot, for the that kind of money I could have found a lot more horse power too...
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:37 AM   #18
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Yes but, w/ the Berger name and additions you are looking at a one of a kind. I purchaced my last Camaro in Wayland, only 15 minutes fom Berger and I kick myself everytime I start the car and think what it could have been. Ofcourse I was 25 and really could have cared less at that point, was just looking at a B-day present for myself.
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Old 08-21-2006, 07:36 PM   #19
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:14 PM   #20
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New Corvette Engine Shatters Previous OHV RPM Limits
Text & photos courtesy General Motors Corporation

500 Horsepower and 7100 RPM
GM engineers have achieved a feat many speculated was not possible. The new LS7 7.0-liter OHV (overhead valve) V-8 engine for the 2006 ZO6 Corvette will not only achieve 500 horsepower but will be capable of running up to 7100 rpm. The previous limit was 6600 rpm in the 6.0-liter LS2.
With this new engine GM is showing multi-valve overhead cam performance is achievable with a two-valve cam-in-block engine. For the new ZO6, higher rpm allows the driver to remain in first gear to just over 60 mph, contributes to higher top speed and improves overall vehicle performance. The LS7 is one of the first automotive OHV production engines in the industry capable of over 7000 rpm.

The new ZO6's sub four-second 0-60 mph time is achieved in part by the extended rpm range and the ability to remain in first gear past 60 mph. The over-190 top speed of the ZO6 is partially due to the speed capability of the engine. As aerodynamic drag becomes a factor at higher speeds, the capability to run higher rpm allows the transmission to be run in a lower gear generating more effective torque at the rear wheels. Also, having the ability to shift all gears at higher speeds improves elapsed times whether on a road course or drag strip.

"For a production engine to run at this high of an rpm blurs the lines even more between OHV and OHC (overhead cam) design," said Dave Muscaro, assistant chief engineer for small block engines. "We took a complete systems approach to achieve the high rpm. We have a tight valvetrain design along with some race-inspired materials for the reciprocating components like titanium intake valves and connecting rods."

OHV engines use pushrods to activate the valves via rocker arms, whereas with OHC engines the valves are typically actuated directly via finger followers. The extra mechanical movement and weight of the components of an OHV valvetrain present challenges to higher rpm. The LS7 design and use of lightweight, stiff components, along with GM's economy of scale, make higher rpm obtainable in a production OHV engine.

"The new LS7 cylinder head gave us the opportunity to design a new high-revving valvetrain," said Jim Hicks, LS7 valvetrain design engineer. "The new valvetrain had to be as stiff and light as possible to assist meeting the engine's aggressive performance targets without compromising idle quality and low emissions. Stiffness is increased with larger diameter pushrods and rocker arms optimized through extensive finite element analysis."

The LS7's 1.8:1 rocker arm ratio and titanium intake valves contribute to a lower effective mass (compared to the LS2 base Corvette engine) in spite of larger and stiffer valvetrain hardware. Idle quality and emissions performance is achieved with the help of a more aggressive cam that provides more lift and duration while still keeping overlap area to a minimum.

"We consulted with our Motorsports group on numerous design aspects of the cylinder head design, said Hicks. "We adopted some of the latest ideas that have been successful in the Nextel Cup and the American Le Mans Series including valve centerline positions, valve angles, valve sizes and rocker arm ratio."

Due to the relatively large bore and stroke (104.8 x 101.6mm) of the LS7, light weight pistons, piston pins, titanium rods and a steel crankshaft are also used to achieve extended rpm. The flat top pistons with race-ready valve reliefs are 482 grams each and use a shortened lightweight piston pin. Each forged titanium rod weighs only 464 grams which is almost 30 percent less than each rod in the LS2. The forged steel crankshaft is stronger, stiffer and designed to handle high-speed loads.
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:23 PM   #21
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The LS7’s specifications include:

Unique cylinder block casting with large, 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in cylinder liners
Forged steel main bearing caps
Forged steel crankshaft
Titanium connecting rods with 101.6-mm stroke
Forged aluminum flat-top pistons
11.0:1 compression
Dry-sump oiling system
Camshaft with .591-inch lift
Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves
Titanium pushrods and valve springs
Low-restriction air intake system
Hydroformed exhaust headers with unique “quad flow” collector flanges.
“In many ways, the LS7 is a racing engine in a street car,” said Dave Muscaro, assistant chief engineer of small-block V-8 for passenger cars. “We’ve taken much of what we’ve learned over the years from the 7.0-liter C5-R racing program and instilled it here. There really has been nothing else like it offered in a GM production vehicle.”
One of the clearest examples of the LS7’s race-bred technology is its use of titanium connecting rods. They weigh just 480 grams apiece, almost 30 percent less than the rods in the LS2 V-8. Besides being lightweight, which enhances high-rpm performance and rpm range, titanium makes the rods extremely durable.

The LS7’s CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads are all-new and designed to meet the high airflow demands of the engine’s 7.0-liter displacement, as it ingests approximately 100 cubic feet more air per minute than the Corvette’s 6.0-liter LS2 V-8 – an 18-percent increase in airflow. Consequently, a hydraulic roller camshaft with .591/.591-inch valve lift is used to allow plenty of air to circulate in and out of the engine.

To ensure optimal, uninterrupted airflow, the LS7’s heads have straight, tunnel-like intake runners. Very large by production-vehicle standards – even racing standards – they are designed to maintain fast airflow velocity, providing excellent torque at low rpm and exhilarating horsepower at high rpm. The heads feature 70-cc combustion chambers which are fed by huge, 56-mm-diameter titanium intake valves. The lightweight titanium valves weigh 21grams less than the stainless steel valves used in the LS2, despite the valve head having 22 percent more area. They are complemented by 41-mm sodium-filled exhaust valves, vs. 39.4-mm valves in the LS2. To accommodate the large valve face diameters, the heads’ valve seats are siamesed; and, taken from experience with the engines of C5-R racecars, the LS7’s valve angles are held at 12 degrees – versus 15 degrees for the LS2 – to enhance airflow through the ports.

All LS7 engines are assembled by hand at GM Powertrain’s new Performance Build Center in Wixom , Mich. The exacting standards to which they are built include deck-plate honing of the cylinders – a procedure normally associated with the building of racing engines and almost unheard of in a production-vehicle engine.

Dry sump oiling system
The LS7 has a dry-sump oiling system designed to keep the engine fully lubricated during the high cornering loads the Corvette Z06 is capable of producing. An engine compartment-mounted 8-quart reservoir delivers oil at a constant pressure to a conventional-style oil pump pick-up at the bottom of the engine. The pressurized oil feed keeps the oil pick-up continually immersed in oil at cornering loads exceeding 1 g.
Oil circulates through the engine and down to the oil pan, where it is sent back to the reservoir via a scavenge pump. The large-capacity reservoir, combined with a high efficiency air-to-oil cooler, provides necessary engine oil cooling under the demands of the engine’s power output. With the dry-sump system, oil is added to the engine via the reservoir tank – which includes the oil level dipstick.

The LS7’s dry-sump system was developed and tested on racetracks in the United States and Europe , including Germany ’s famed Nürburgring. And while common in racing cars, the Corvette Z06 is one of just a handful of production vehicles – and the only production Corvette – to ever incorporate such a high-performance oiling system.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:15 AM   #22
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A hand-built LS7...all the more reason not to put it into a regular production Camaro. Or, if GM were to put it into the Camaro, there would be a very long wait time to get it....not to mention a huge increase in cost. Good info on the LS7, though. That's one hell of an engine.
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Old 08-29-2006, 10:05 AM   #23
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im only 23 and if thye offer the z06 motor ill paythe difference just to have one of the fastest cars on the road and probably a rare one too
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Old 08-30-2006, 06:43 PM   #24
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Brother, I'd pay it too. I've just got to scrounge up the change for it somewhere...
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:10 AM   #25
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oh i got my camaro account sitting collecting intrest just ready to write that check
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