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Old 05-23-2008, 06:41 PM   #120
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ALSO someone was wondering about battery position, nobody knows not even the disciples (or if they do they are not telling). When asked about it they just mentioned that when inspecting the trunk they had no clear indicator of where it was.
My Cobalt has the battery in the trunk, but you would never know it is there just by opening the lid. I imagine the Camaro is going to be the same way.
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:32 PM   #121
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Thanks for the photos, these are awesome!! One thing about the car though, it only has one hood air shock to hold the hood up? Looks weird. The 4th Gens have two, one on each side. I'm really going V8 now though, the Direct injection LLT gets only 17/26 economy, thats no better than the LS3:

CTS:

Powertrains and Performance
The 2008 Cadillac CTS is available with one of two V6 engines. Standard power comes from last year's optional 3.6-liter V6 generating 258 hp and 252 pound-feet of torque, while the available new 3.6-liter direct injection (DI) V6 puts out 304 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque. In performance testing, this engine produced a 0-60-mph time of 6.5 seconds. A six-speed manual transmission is standard with the base engine, and a six-speed automatic is available. The DI engine has the automatic as standard and the manual as optional. The CTS is offered in both rear-wheel and all-wheel-drive configurations. Note that all-wheel-drive models come only with the 258-horse V6 and six-speed automatic. Both engines get virtually the same gas mileage, with 18 mpg city and 26 mpg highway for the base engine and 17/26 mpg for the DI engine.

http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/cts/2008/review.html


Chevy Corvette:

Powertrains and Performance
Both the base coupe and convertible Corvettes feature a 6.2-liter V8 that makes an impressive 430 hp and 424 pound-feet of torque. An optional performance exhaust adds another 6 hp. The Z06 boasts an exotic-class 505 hp and 470 lb-ft from its 7.0-liter V8. All Corvettes have a six-speed manual gearbox as standard, while a six-speed paddle-shift automatic is a no-cost option for the base coupe and convertible. The manual gearbox features new linkage for more positive action while the automatic has been recalibrated to furnish quicker response to the paddle shifters.
Regardless of which Corvette you choose, you'll get stunning performance. We spurred the base Corvette coupe from zero to 60 mph in just 4.5 seconds en route to a blistering 12.8-second quarter-mile at 114.8 mph, and Chevrolet claims that it won't stop until it hits 190 mph. Fuel economy is relatively impressive too, with 2008 EPA estimates of 16 mpg city/26 mpg highway for a manual-transmission Corvette. The Z06 is even quicker -- and at 15 mpg city/24 highway, there's only a slight penalty at the pump.


http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cor...08/review.html

Dude, look at your source. Edmunds is notorious for having bad test numbers. All three C&D, MT and R&T got the DI CTS to do 0-60 in under a 6.0. Now saying that I have no dought that the DI camaro will be neck to neck with the whale of a R/T challenger. The SRT8 version only got a 4.7 pass to 60 so a mid 5 second number if not worse is expected out of the challenger. The DI camaro won't have trouble matching if not exceeding those numbers.
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:54 PM   #122
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Dude, look at your source. Edmunds is notorious for having bad test numbers. All three C&D, MT and R&T got the DI CTS to do 0-60 in under a 6.0. Now saying that I have no dought that the DI camaro will be neck to neck with the whale of a R/T challenger. The SRT8 version only got a 4.7 pass to 60 so a mid 5 second number if not worse is expected out of the challenger. The DI camaro won't have trouble matching if not exceeding those numbers.
I take back the whole kick ass thing, and I agree one hundred percent... but it might depend on the camaro weight which is still unknown, bet it still weighs under the SRT8....thats the only thing major thats holding it back the weight
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:10 PM   #123
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-Point well taken. But like I stated above, I think it could use a little flare. Look, I still LOVE the Camaro and think it looks killer. But if we are going to analyze the engine ...well that's my comment.
I am hoping that the LS3 compartment looks similar to the vette. Clean and simple with Camaro plastered across the valve covers
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:48 PM   #124
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Also the average car buyer assumes V8's are gas guzzlers and V6's are not. 4cyl's are absolutely frugal -Not when they put out 300hp, and pull 3500 plus lbs.

The Solstice gets Turbo ECOTEC® 2.0L VVT DOHC (automatic): 19/26 (city/highway mpg) The Solstice weighs around 3000lbs. Add 40 more hp AND 500lbs (min) and I'll see you at the pumps with my V8.
You know this, and I know this and probably everyone reading this forum knows this, but to the average man on the street it's more like:

"Gosh, golly, gee wilikers! There must be something wrong with my Solstice... It's got a 4-cylinder and I only get 26MPH. It's a 4-cylinder, so I should be getting more than 35MPH at least! Must be defective or bad design by GM."

(Actual general public luddite comment)
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:18 PM   #125
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Wouldn't that defeat the purpose, though? I mean, putting a 300 horse Turbo 4 in the base Camaro. The Sky/Solctice is 28 grand for that 260 horse Turbo...if they popped it in the Camaro for 20k, they'd need to give the Solctice/Sky folks something to make them feel 'special', to keep the the Red Line/GXP models stronger than an entry-level car, you know? That's what I think they may be doing...
I feel the Solstice GXP and Sky Red Line are priced too high. Really, for $30K you could get a T4 2 seat roadster with a few options, or a V8 full size car with plenty of those options standard. I've even heard the Solstice coupe might cost even more. Sure they're selling well and they are pretty nice, but they just don't scream "value" like the G8 does.
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:27 PM   #126
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Dang a v6 camaro with just as much hp as a GT mustang... thats awesome
I bet ford is working on the next mustang and will try and top the camaro, if it keeps going like this were gonna end up with 600 hp camaros and mustangs in 50 years haha
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:41 PM   #127
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Dang a v6 camaro with just as much hp as a GT mustang... thats awesome
I bet ford is working on the next mustang and will try and top the camaro, if it keeps going like this were gonna end up with 600 hp camaros and mustangs in 50 years haha
50 years! Dude, the ZR1 has way over 600 HP already so the Camaro could easily have it when it comes out in less than one year if GM wanted to do it! I think most Camaro buyers are going to be a LOT more interested in the V6 in today's day and age though.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:53 PM   #128
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Cool camaro v6 engine

ford oughta be unshamed of thereselves the Chevy Camaro v6 will have the same horsepower as the lame ford mustake gt v8 that goes to show you how much ford suck the ford mustake will never be a match for the Camaro ever
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:11 AM   #129
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Dang a v6 camaro with just as much hp as a GT mustang... thats awesome
I bet ford is working on the next mustang and will try and top the camaro, if it keeps going like this were gonna end up with 600 hp camaros and mustangs in 50 years haha
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50 years! Dude, the ZR1 has way over 600 HP already so the Camaro could easily have it when it comes out in less than one year if GM wanted to do it! I think most Camaro buyers are going to be a LOT more interested in the V6 in today's day and age though.
Didn't I hear these same comments back in 1970? Right before the insurance companies bought the USA? Hope this ain't Deja Vu
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:18 AM   #130
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biggest debut ever

im thinkin bout somethin sick like a 500 plus horsepowered Camaro since the Camaro will be returning it needs to return with a vengence! we(GM)dont need to run neck and neck with our competitors we need to run over them!
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:02 AM   #131
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not to bust your chops eric... buuuuut, comparing two cars with different weight and gearing options makes it unfair to compare. just cus the vette can pull off those numbers with the LS3 doesnt mean a camaro will be able to.
I agree, I actually thought about this after I posted it, the Vette is waaay lighter than the CTS, almost 700 lbs lighter, but its hard to imagine a DI V6 getting any more than 18/26 MPG in the Camaro. Now they really have to consider the 2.0 T4 engine, but again, inside the Soltice its 19/28 (manual) and 19/26 for the auto, but the Camaro is sure to weigh more than the 2976 lb Soltice, so will the 2.0 T4 engine even be a viable option compared to the V6? There is a ton of variables we would could consider here based off the existing vehicles. If the LS3 V8 gets 17/24 in the Camaro with that cylinder shutoff feature I'm getting that one without question. I just don't see how fuel efficient enough GM could make the V6 or T4 engines to make me or many other people bypass the V8, right now the only major factors appear to be overally cost of the vehicle and insurance.

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Dude, look at your source. Edmunds is notorious for having bad test numbers. All three C&D, MT and R&T got the DI CTS to do 0-60 in under a 6.0. Now saying that I have no dought that the DI camaro will be neck to neck with the whale of a R/T challenger. The SRT8 version only got a 4.7 pass to 60 so a mid 5 second number if not worse is expected out of the challenger. The DI camaro won't have trouble matching if not exceeding those numbers.

I somewhat disagree with this, have you seen Road & Track's Dodge Charger SRT8 numbers compared to MT? Road and Tracks numbers are ALWAYS faster than MT for some reason. I subscribe to both, the same was true for the Lancer Evo MR. I trust Motor Trend more than Road and Track. Never been too much of a fan of C & D though. Also, I have in Motor Trend the Cadillac STS with the DI V6 getting 0-60 at 6.4 seconds. I'll post the exact issue numbers for both really soon. I have soo many of those magazines stacked. I also have Automobile magazine so some of the number comparisons I found in there too.

Lastly, I don't think its possible for the DI V6 Camaro to run neck and neck with a Challenger R/T, you will lose at 0-60 AND 0-100. Maybe in 1/8 mile it could but the Challenger would just catch up to it and beat it.

Ok I found one example, Automobile Magazine, Sept. 2007 issue Cadillac CTS DI V6 304hp, 0-60 MPH 6.6 seconds 1/4 mile 15.1 (thats no better than a stock 3800 Camaro, Firebird with Y87 performance package). 0-120MPH 25.8 seconds! Therefore even in a Camaro that weights 450lbs less, there is NO way you will be beating Dodge Challengers R/Ts, even the V6 Challenger will give you a heck of a time. Maybe the V6 camaro can hit the 1/4 mile at 14.5 with a better exhaust etc. But I'm looking at every 100lbs being 0.1 sec or more off the 1/4 mile. Lets just hope GM leaves room for a S/C or Turbo this time for the V6 guys, that way they'll have an easier time upgrading and then finally whooping any Challenger R/T, SRT etc. But if GM can get the V6 to say 0-60 in 5.6 seconds stock, then we have a true winner with the V6.

No more V6s for me unless its the Porche 911 Carrera or the Nissan GTR, both of which will be out of my reach.
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Old 05-24-2008, 02:05 AM   #132
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I am stoked for this car, only 20K you get a v6 with as much HP as a mustang GT and its a bowtie . It will be one hell of an upgrade my my 93 cavi lol.

I wonder how much of an after market there will be for this engine?
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Old 05-24-2008, 05:16 AM   #133
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You decide.... I think yes!!

First engine bay photos.
Also featured on homepage.

CLUES:
-- "LLT" letters on some hoses indicate GM's LLT engine (the direct-injection 3.6L V6)
-- throttle-body size / shape and bolts holding it on
-- three fluid reservoirs in the same locations


Attachment 4916








comparison engines....

Attachment 4917
Attachment 4918
Without reading the rest of the thread (sorry) -- That IS a V6.

And, I'd bet THIS V6 will set new benchmarks in performance and economy for years to come. Congrats to the GM powertrain engineers.

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Old 05-24-2008, 12:26 PM   #134
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Don't look like there's one under THAT hood!!!
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Old 05-24-2008, 03:22 PM   #135
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I agree, I actually thought about this after I posted it, the Vette is waaay lighter than the CTS, almost 700 lbs lighter, but its hard to imagine a DI V6 getting any more than 18/26 MPG in the Camaro. Now they really have to consider the 2.0 T4 engine, but again, inside the Soltice its 19/28 (manual) and 19/26 for the auto, but the Camaro is sure to weigh more than the 2976 lb Soltice, so will the 2.0 T4 engine even be a viable option compared to the V6? There is a ton of variables we would could consider here based off the existing vehicles. If the LS3 V8 gets 17/24 in the Camaro with that cylinder shutoff feature I'm getting that one without question. I just don't see how fuel efficient enough GM could make the V6 or T4 engines to make me or many other people bypass the V8, right now the only major factors appear to be overally cost of the vehicle and insurance.


I somewhat disagree with this, have you seen Road & Track's Dodge Charger SRT8 numbers compared to MT? Road and Tracks numbers are ALWAYS faster than MT for some reason. I subscribe to both, the same was true for the Lancer Evo MR. I trust Motor Trend more than Road and Track. Never been too much of a fan of C & D though. Also, I have in Motor Trend the Cadillac STS with the DI V6 getting 0-60 at 6.4 seconds. I'll post the exact issue numbers for both really soon. I have soo many of those magazines stacked. I also have Automobile magazine so some of the number comparisons I found in there too.

Lastly, I don't think its possible for the DI V6 Camaro to run neck and neck with a Challenger R/T, you will lose at 0-60 AND 0-100. Maybe in 1/8 mile it could but the Challenger would just catch up to it and beat it.

Ok I found one example, Automobile Magazine, Sept. 2007 issue Cadillac CTS DI V6 304hp, 0-60 MPH 6.6 seconds 1/4 mile 15.1 (thats no better than a stock 3800 Camaro, Firebird with Y87 performance package). 0-120MPH 25.8 seconds! Therefore even in a Camaro that weights 450lbs less, there is NO way you will be beating Dodge Challengers R/Ts, even the V6 Challenger will give you a heck of a time. Maybe the V6 camaro can hit the 1/4 mile at 14.5 with a better exhaust etc. But I'm looking at every 100lbs being 0.1 sec or more off the 1/4 mile. Lets just hope GM leaves room for a S/C or Turbo this time for the V6 guys, that way they'll have an easier time upgrading and then finally whooping any Challenger R/T, SRT etc. But if GM can get the V6 to say 0-60 in 5.6 seconds stock, then we have a true winner with the V6.

No more V6s for me unless its the Porche 911 Carrera or the Nissan GTR, both of which will be out of my reach.
good point, but I disagree theirs no doubt thats the DI camaro would smoke the V6 challenger but even that might be a problem 3 years from know cause chrysler replacing all their v6's with some new phoenix v6 thats get 280-300 HP and with the 5-speed autostick....problem, can't see chrysler doing all this with out rising the price

and I'm a V8 man, and the only V6's I like are the ones in the Impalas LS to LTZ, there peppy the sound real good and if I had to drive a V6 it would be an Impala LTZ

P.S. I did not know the Porche 911 Carrera was a V6, cool
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Old 05-24-2008, 04:07 PM   #136
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I thought that that the 911 has a flat 6 ("boxer")?
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