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Old 09-16-2009, 05:43 AM   #1
syr74
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The REAL Ten Best Engines

That's right, as discussed in another thread Ward's got it wrong....luckily I am here to set it right. Here we go. (in no particular order)

GM's 6.2L LS3: I had to extend a little forgiveness here since the G8 GXP knocks down some terrible fuel economy numbers, but the manual transmission Camaro helps this mill redeem itself there and IMO this engine is currently a better all around piece than the HEMI. Sounds great, goes great.

Ford's 3.5L Ecoboost: Yeah, I know, this is a 2010 piece and Wards hasn't even gotten to 2010 MY engines yet but I'm throwing it in anyway. I can't think of another engine that offers this kind of horsepower and such a ridiculous amount of low end torque yet still knocks down an epa rated 25mpg highway in a 4400lb car with awd. Like a V8 without the extra two cylinder....seriously.

BMW's 4.4L GTDi V8: 400hp and 450lb-ft of torque with peak torque starting below 2000rpm? Who knew the people to bring back the age of big block power would be the Germans? Did I mention this thing knocks down virtually the same mpg's as the old 4.4L naturally aspirated V8 it replaces? Smooth like butter too.

Audi's supercharged 3.2L V6: Over 300hp and 300lb-ft of torque in an awd car and she still nets 27mpg highway. I can't wait to drive one of these.

BMW's 3.0L GTDI I6: Seemingly not quite as good as the Audi's unit, but close enough to make this list. Feels like a V8 and doesn't sound bad either.

BMW's 3.0L Turbo Diesel: Okay, so I agree with Wards on the two turbo Bimmer six cylinder engines. Another need to drive moment, heck I haven't even seen one yet, but it makes the list because of all the diesels on the US market this one shows the way forward.

Nissan/Infiniti 3.7L V6: GM HF V6 puts up a good fight, but the Nissan makes notably greater power for virtually identical fuel economy in a comparable car, and the Nissan does it without DI. To be fair the GM unit doesn't sound like a blender at WOT, but that isn't enough to give the GM unit the win in my book.

GM LNF GTDi 2.0L: Truly a great engine in search of a home. Frankly, if GM really wanted to set the world on it's proverbial ear this should have been the standard engine in every Cobalt with SS suspension to match. No, I'm not kidding.

Honda J35 3.5L V6: 265hp and 29mpg highway, without DI. That's impressive no matter how you slice it.

Honda K24 I4: 190hp and 31mpg in a car the size of the Honda Accord, and it's typical Honda smooth.

Much anticipated 2011 model year engines...

3.7L Ford Mustang/MKS V6
5.0L Coyote V8
6.7L Scorpion diesel

Hey, I am a Ford guy and right now I only have one engine on my own ten best list so I have to give 2011 a mention.


Feel free to rattle off your own ten best list.

Last edited by syr74; 09-16-2009 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:05 PM   #2
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Not bad, Though I would have added GM's LS7 and LS9. I know of no other N.A. car than the Z06 that have over 500 hp and still achieves 24 mpg. LS9 is just freakin awesome. Just my opinon though. If one criteria is Hp, Torque, Reliability/Durability, Compact in size, Light weight, Fuel economy, simplicity for mods and AFFORDABLE. The best motor in my opinon is Gm's LS engines, they are just freakin awesome. Though I do aggree that Ford's ecoboost is Damn impressive, I wounder when ford will realise they should put SHO's powertrain into the Ford Fusion and give it a manuel transmission option. hopefully a SVt fusion would weigh 700lbs lighter than the sho.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:14 PM   #3
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Not bad, Though I would have added GM's LS7 and LS9. I know of no other N.A. car than the Z06 that have over 500 hp and still achieves 24 mpg. LS9 is just freakin awesome. Just my opinon though. If one criteria is Hp, Torque, Reliability/Durability, Compact in size, Light weight, Fuel economy, simplicity for mods and AFFORDABLE. The best motor in my opinon is Gm's LS engines, they are just freakin awesome. Though I do aggree that Ford's ecoboost is Damn impressive, I wounder when ford will realise they should put SHO's powertrain into the Ford Fusion and give it a manuel transmission option. hopefully a SVt fusion would weigh 700lbs lighter than the sho.
Not to mention that the Fusion, IMHO, shames the Taurus in the looks department...everytime I see it I always tell myself "I really want a new Fusion"
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:09 PM   #4
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Not bad, Though I would have added GM's LS7 and LS9. I know of no other N.A. car than the Z06 that have over 500 hp and still achieves 24 mpg. LS9 is just freakin awesome. Just my opinon though. If one criteria is Hp, Torque, Reliability/Durability, Compact in size, Light weight, Fuel economy, simplicity for mods and AFFORDABLE. The best motor in my opinon is Gm's LS engines, they are just freakin awesome. Though I do aggree that Ford's ecoboost is Damn impressive, I wounder when ford will realise they should put SHO's powertrain into the Ford Fusion and give it a manuel transmission option. hopefully a SVt fusion would weigh 700lbs lighter than the sho.
yes because nobody has ever done a dohc di turbo'd motor... never been done before never ever
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:00 PM   #5
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yes because nobody has ever done a dohc di turbo'd motor... never been done before never ever
doesn't make it any less impressive
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:17 PM   #6
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doesn't make it any less impressive
chill i'm kidding sure it's impressive but it's nothing that hasn't been done before it's just got a cool name
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Old 09-16-2009, 04:07 PM   #7
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Not a bad list, just a few thoughts. I think value is a key point here (although Ward's doesn't necessarily agree). Obviously, if you put a lot of expensive technology in an engine, it is easier to make more power in a better overall package. You say the Nissan motor is more impressive than the GM 3.6L LLT, but look at how much more you have to pay to get one. About 6-8k more, and that is in a car with 2 less seats, or a FWD maxima (which is still around 30k). And all the European engines you mentioned, they are certainly good products, but what do you have to spend to get one?

The fuel economy part has a lot to do with the vehicle and gearing, not only the engine, so that comparison is a little off. The LS3 is the G8 GXP is not less efficient, the car is just setup for a different experience, and mileage suffers for it.

As for the Cobalt, that makes no business sense, as very few people shop for that range of cars based on hp, so no way would it generate enough new sales. They would either have to raise the price significantly or take a big loss on each car, and I don't think many Cobalt buyers would know the difference. Not only that, but anybody who wants a Corolla would buy one anyway.

One last thought, when you look at engines, such as the 190 hp I4 honda, peak numbers don't really tell the whole story. It feels more like about 90 hp. The same way the GM 304hp LLT can't keep up with a 300hp mustang, it is power under the curve that matters most, not just the advertising number attained.
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Old 09-16-2009, 04:30 PM   #8
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you forgot 2jzgte from the supras. Probably one of the best motors ever made. If you dont agree on that i will make you agree lol
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Old 09-16-2009, 04:35 PM   #9
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so no love for the 3.6 LLT?
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Old 09-16-2009, 04:47 PM   #10
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Not bad, Though I would have added GM's LS7 and LS9. I know of no other N.A. car than the Z06 that have over 500 hp and still achieves 24 mpg. LS9 is just freakin awesome. Just my opinon though. If one criteria is Hp, Torque, Reliability/Durability, Compact in size, Light weight, Fuel economy, simplicity for mods and AFFORDABLE. The best motor in my opinon is Gm's LS engines, they are just freakin awesome. Though I do agree that Ford's ecoboost is Damn impressive, I wounder when ford will realise they should put SHO's powertrain into the Ford Fusion and give it a manuel transmission option. hopefully a SVt fusion would weigh 700lbs lighter than the sho.
I considered the LS7, LS9, and the GT500's supercharged 5.4L and ruled them all out for different reason. Just my opinion here of course, but any list is.

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Originally Posted by Rayhawk
Not a bad list, just a few thoughts. I think value is a key point here (although Ward's doesn't necessarily agree). Obviously, if you put a lot of expensive technology in an engine, it is easier to make more power in a better overall package. You say the Nissan motor is more impressive than the GM 3.6L LLT, but look at how much more you have to pay to get one. About 6-8k more, and that is in a car with 2 less seats, or a FWD maxima (which is still around 30k).
I thought about that too, but the only really lopsided comparison between the two sixes is Camaro vs. Z car, and the Camaro is the only GM vehicles which currently offers the DI 3.6L and doesn't ask an arm and a leg for it. Altima compares nicely to Malibu, etc., so I made my decision based on the motors themselves. The Nissan piece was a tough call for me because it really does sound terrible, but in the end I thought it was the most impressive piece.

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As for the Cobalt, that makes no business sense, as very few people shop for that range of cars based on hp, so no way would it generate enough new sales. They would either have to raise the price significantly or take a big loss on each car, and I don't think many Cobalt buyers would know the difference. Not only that, but anybody who wants a Corolla would buy one anyway.
I worked in the auto industry for a long time and my money says GM could have built ever Cobalt as an SS, with a few deviations in standard equipment, and still spend less money building the thing than Honda spends building the Civic. Cobalt is an older design and was engineered to be inexpensive from the outset. One engine offering would drastically simplify the production line, further reducing costs, and the relatively massive rebates the Cobalt effectively came out of the starting gate with told you that GM priced this car in the old school, domestic manner of 'ask way too much for it and then rebate it back down to reality'.

I agree that nobody looking for a Corolla is going to buy a Cobalt, but then I would argue that none of them will buy the Cruze either. The best strategy for GM and Ford is to appeal to those folks not enamored with the status quo IMO.

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One last thought, when you look at engines, such as the 190 hp I4 honda, peak numbers don't really tell the whole story. It feels more like about 90 hp. The same way the GM 304hp LLT can't keep up with a 300hp mustang, it is power under the curve that matters most, not just the advertising number attained.
I agree, and I think my list reflects engines which work well in real world situations, in fact I chose most of my engines with real world driveability in mind.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:33 PM   #11
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you forgot 2jzgte from the supras. Probably one of the best motors ever made. If you dont agree on that i will make you agree lol
sorry rb25det and rb26dett>2jzgte
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:40 PM   #12
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New or old or both? Chevy 350 is probably the most famous engine.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:47 PM   #13
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New or old or both? Chevy 350 is probably the most famous engine.
i must agree with this the 350 is probably the most well known motor and one of the toughest and one that has pushed it's way through time taking various new advances in technology
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:19 PM   #14
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I worked in the auto industry for a long time and my money says GM could have built ever Cobalt as an SS, with a few deviations in standard equipment, and still spend less money building the thing than Honda spends building the Civic. Cobalt is an older design and was engineered to be inexpensive from the outset. One engine offering would drastically simplify the production line, further reducing costs, and the relatively massive rebates the Cobalt effectively came out of the starting gate with told you that GM priced this car in the old school, domestic manner of 'ask way too much for it and then rebate it back down to reality'.

I agree that nobody looking for a Corolla is going to buy a Cobalt, but then I would argue that none of them will buy the Cruze either. The best strategy for GM and Ford is to appeal to those folks not enamored with the status quo IMO.
That may be true, but you have to wonder...If all Cobalts WERE SS's, regardless if they were cheaper to make, would they really profit as much and sell as many as they do? It seems one of the biggest audiences of Cobalts are high school kids or freshly graduated. I'm not sure exactly what the prices of insurance are like for a Cobalt SS, but I've heard they're insane. If insurance is as bad as I've heard, I'm sure a lot of those high school kids wouldn't be able to afford one anymore, dropping sales drastically. The ones that could still afford one would probably be spoiled rich kids that treat their car with little respect and have little respect for anyone else on the road. Let's face it, teenagers are maniacs behind the wheel of a semi-powerful or more car, not to mention everyone else since they'd be so easy to come by, and insurance claims would go up, raising the price for everyone, allowing even less young people (the majority target from what I've seen) to get one. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:07 PM   #15
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That may be true, but you have to wonder...If all Cobalts WERE SS's, regardless if they were cheaper to make, would they really profit as much and sell as many as they do? It seems one of the biggest audiences of Cobalts are high school kids or freshly graduated. I'm not sure exactly what the prices of insurance are like for a Cobalt SS, but I've heard they're insane. If insurance is as bad as I've heard, I'm sure a lot of those high school kids wouldn't be able to afford one anymore, dropping sales drastically. The ones that could still afford one would probably be spoiled rich kids that treat their car with little respect and have little respect for anyone else on the road. Let's face it, teenagers are maniacs behind the wheel of a semi-powerful or more car, not to mention everyone else since they'd be so easy to come by, and insurance claims would go up, raising the price for everyone, allowing even less young people (the majority target from what I've seen) to get one. But that's just my opinion.
thanks... just like every honda driver is a ricer correct?? i live in a town full of poeple over 65 and everybody is scared to do over 25 and imo they're even MORE dangerous then the highschoolers the "powerful" cars at my school are the ones kept the NICEST and drive the best i can't tell you how many times i've been cut off and i'm only 17 and no it's not because i was speeding i hardly ever speed and the one time i want to get home after riding at the track i get a ticket for 10 over (there was absolutly nobody out there) and that's the only "trouble" i've ever been in and actually people give me shit for how well i keep my car it's the kids that get the "police interceptor" crown vics that think their hot shot's or the guys with the ridicuously loud trucks so just remember next time you see a kid with a nice car don't think he's a douche bag i catch so much shit from people for it oh and the insurance is pretty ridiculous
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Old 09-23-2009, 02:36 PM   #16
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thanks... just like every honda driver is a ricer correct?? i live in a town full of poeple over 65 and everybody is scared to do over 25 and imo they're even MORE dangerous then the highschoolers the "powerful" cars at my school are the ones kept the NICEST and drive the best i can't tell you how many times i've been cut off and i'm only 17 and no it's not because i was speeding i hardly ever speed and the one time i want to get home after riding at the track i get a ticket for 10 over (there was absolutly nobody out there) and that's the only "trouble" i've ever been in and actually people give me shit for how well i keep my car it's the kids that get the "police interceptor" crown vics that think their hot shot's or the guys with the ridicuously loud trucks so just remember next time you see a kid with a nice car don't think he's a douche bag i catch so much shit from people for it oh and the insurance is pretty ridiculous
Hey! You must live in Sioux Falls! :P. Sorry, no offense meant. Of course there are always exceptions. I'm only 20 and, not to be cocky or conceited, but I'm one of the best drivers around haha. But then again I only have a 200 hp sedan with non-existant torque, although I did have a foxbody Mustang with a few mods that could get with it. And even though my car is only worth 5-6k, I am more anal about it than most people with new cars, so I know what you mean. I agree about the old people, though, they are the ridiculous ones.
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Old 09-23-2009, 02:38 PM   #17
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thanks... just like every honda driver is a ricer correct?? i live in a town full of poeple over 65 and everybody is scared to do over 25 and imo they're even MORE dangerous then the highschoolers the "powerful" cars at my school are the ones kept the NICEST and drive the best i can't tell you how many times i've been cut off and i'm only 17 and no it's not because i was speeding i hardly ever speed and the one time i want to get home after riding at the track i get a ticket for 10 over (there was absolutly nobody out there) and that's the only "trouble" i've ever been in and actually people give me shit for how well i keep my car it's the kids that get the "police interceptor" crown vics that think their hot shot's or the guys with the ridicuously loud trucks so just remember next time you see a kid with a nice car don't think he's a douche bag i catch so much shit from people for it oh and the insurance is pretty ridiculous
Oh, and yes, yes they are! :P. Around here anyway...
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Old 09-23-2009, 02:43 PM   #18
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sorry rb25det and rb26dett>2jzgte
lol no way haha.

RB25 is a POS, now the rb26 i love, but still not as good as the the 2J.
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Old 09-23-2009, 04:21 PM   #19
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old but funny
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Old 09-23-2009, 05:13 PM   #20
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I still think that the Northstar doesnt get the credit it deserves.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:13 PM   #21
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Sadly u guys are missing one of the best enginered motors of all time.
that is Mazda's RENESIS rotary motor.
the b13 rotary has won loads of awards for its one of a kind design, sure it may not be the most powerful/ fuel efficent but than again no one else has tried to make one.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:51 PM   #22
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I was going to say the Mazda Rotary and the older VW boxer engine, the flat 4 air cooled and its decendents in the porsche flat 6 and the Subaru flat 4's and 6's are some of the greatest engines. the VW aircooled is probably the second or third most modified engine in history after the 350 and fords V8. It has been used in everything from cars, boats, motorcycles and airplanes. oh and people will make upwards of 6 -7 hundred horse or more with an engine that was originally designed for 36 horse
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:49 PM   #23
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Hey! You must live in Sioux Falls! :P. Sorry, no offense meant. Of course there are always exceptions. I'm only 20 and, not to be cocky or conceited, but I'm one of the best drivers around haha. But then again I only have a 200 hp sedan with non-existant torque, although I did have a foxbody Mustang with a few mods that could get with it. And even though my car is only worth 5-6k, I am more anal about it than most people with new cars, so I know what you mean. I agree about the old people, though, they are the ridiculous ones.
lol sorry if i sounded like a dick i was pissed from football practice but... funny thing is... i've been to sioux falls south dakota MANY times i actually have lot's of family there

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Oh, and yes, yes they are! :P. Around here anyway...
Read ^^^^

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lol no way haha.

RB25 is a POS, now the rb26 i love, but still not as good as the the 2J.
Please explain how the RB25 is a pos my friend is doing a swap into a 240sx with one and i need a reason for him to get the RB26 and imo the 26 is the best :p lol so SUCK IT!!!
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:23 PM   #24
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No 8500rpm 4.0L 415 hp V8?!?
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:36 PM   #25
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Lot of good motors in your bunch, but the 3.8 is the best V-6 overall, all the small block Chevys 283, 327, 350 are great, 351 Cleveland, old chrysler 383, just to name a few. There are good motors from across the pond, but you can't beat the small block Chevys for dependability, ease of modification, cost to modify, availibility of parts. From rat rods, customs,to short tracks, the Chevy SB is King.
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