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Old 09-22-2009, 09:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croathlete View Post
I'm going to ignore your last line. You obviously didn't understand what I said.

I'm not saying this test is useless or that I don't appreciate him doing this. I'm simply pointing out that for a true comparison, the ECU needs to be "broken in". I can't say I know how long this process takes. Ten miles or 100 miles, who knows?

Yes, you will see what the gains are right off the bat, but it will not be representative of what owners will see over the life of their unit. Still, this will be a good test to weed out the CAI's that really don't do anything but look good.
Well, that line wasn't just for you... it's for all the other people who were critisizing 2SSRS and others for inadquate testing. It's rather easy for people to sit behind a computer screen and scrutinize the testing of products.

We have a lot of emerging products with a relatively new system to place them on. I'm sure as time progresses, extensive testing will be done on all of them, but this may be a great initial "first-look" at them.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:52 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Croathlete View Post
I don't care what happens immediately. I care about how it will perform in the long run. I want to see how performance changes after the ECU has adjusted over time. One unit may perform better than another 5 minutes into testing, but after 100 miles you may have a completely different story. I don't know about you, but I prefer the latter.

Ted, thanks for doing this. I hope most of the vendors participate. Being as detailed as you are, I'm sure you'll be documenting the entire testing process and trying your best to keep all conditions the same for all tests.
The "immediate" results are an indicator of how effective a unit is/is going to be. I would hope you'd be able to look at the various CAI's and understand which ones will likely see improving results over time based on what type it is. These tests will also show what's involved in installing each one, how they look once installed, how loud they are, and what their effectiveness is right out of the box. Maybe you don't care about that but I'm sure others (myself included) do.

I'm able to figure out which unit, like the Vararam, or Andy's which has the MAF inside the CAI box, MIGHT see improving results over time as the ECM adjusts versus a unit that's just a tube with a K&N filter stuck on the end. The starting point gives me an idea of how effective these units are immediately and what kind of gains might eventually be there based on the starting point. For example if a unit starts out with a gain of 15 rwhp, then I know over time as the ECM "learns" it's going to go up from there. If a different unit starts out at 10 rwhp, even if it gains 50% from ECM learning it I'd rather start with the other one that begins where this one might end up.

Heat soak is an issue. What are the temps inside the unit while sitting at a stop during stop and go traffic? What are the temps inside when you shut the engine off, then come back and start it back up? These are the kinds of things this test would reveal and IMHO are valuable.

I really don't see under these circumstances any practical way to run the long term tests you mentioned but I don't think that absence will in any way invalidate the results that they come up with.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
The "immediate" results are an indicator of how effective a unit is/is going to be. I would hope you'd be able to look at the various CAI's and understand which ones will likely see improving results over time based on what type it is. These tests will also show what's involved in installing each one, how they look once installed, how loud they are, and what their effectiveness is right out of the box. Maybe you don't care about that but I'm sure others (myself included) do.

I'm able to figure out which unit, like the Vararam, or Andy's which has the MAF inside the CAI box, MIGHT see improving results over time as the ECM adjusts versus a unit that's just a tube with a K&N filter stuck on the end. The starting point gives me an idea of how effective these units are immediately and what kind of gains might eventually be there based on the starting point. For example if a unit starts out with a gain of 15 rwhp, then I know over time as the ECM "learns" it's going to go up from there. If a different unit starts out at 10 rwhp, even if it gains 50% from ECM learning it I'd rather start with the other one that begins where this one might end up.

Heat soak is an issue. What are the temps inside the unit while sitting at a stop during stop and go traffic? What are the temps inside when you shut the engine off, then come back and start it back up? These are the kinds of things this test would reveal and IMHO are valuable.

I really don't see under these circumstances any practical way to run the long term tests you mentioned but I don't think that absence will in any way invalidate the results that they come up with.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. There is no practical way for him to test each CAI for long periods of time, especially since he isn't being compensated for his time. My only point is, and you said it as well, we will have to guess how much performance will improve from initial numbers. A lot of people might see initial HP and TQ numbers and take that as the end all be all.

Like you said, I think other data such as intake temps during various different environments will give a good idea of long performance increases.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:09 AM   #32
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Hay guy don't start a war, I called JANNETTYRACING and i can say he is a good man and a fare man, I hope that Patrick can come on hear to let you know what i know, I know in time he will.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:12 AM   #33
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Guys I don't want this to get out of hand so lets Please stick to the facts only.

I will be data logging the effects of the cold air kits on the Maf Transfer function and the fuel trims for each system.

I will also Clear the computers Memory, before each kit, then do a drive cycle to let the computer adjust then make as many pulls as necessary to stablize the results.

A/F will be monitored for each system.

The only thing that affects A/F is the Maf Transfer Function, If the Maf transfer function is altered severely it throws off all the fueling and the timing calculations, I already know what to expect and will be watching this closely.

I was down this road 15 years ago with the LT1s and aftermarket mafs and cold air kits.

You will have to trust my experience in collecting solid data.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:20 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Guys I don't want this to get out of hand so lets Please stick to the facts only.

I will be data logging the effects of the cold air kits on the Maf Transfer function and the fuel trims for each system.

I will also Clear the computers Memory, before each kit, then do a drive cycle to let the computer adjust then make as many pulls as necessary to stablize the results.

A/F will be monitored for each system.

The only thing that affects A/F is the Maf Transfer Function, If the Maf transfer function is altered severely it throws off all the fueling and the timing calculations, I already know what to expect and will be watching this closely.

I was down this road 15 years ago with the LT1s and aftermarket mafs and cold air kits.

You will have to trust my experience in collecting solid data.
That sounds good to me!
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Guys I don't want this to get out of hand so lets Please stick to the facts only.

I will be data logging the effects of the cold air kits on the Maf Transfer function and the fuel trims for each system.

I will also Clear the computers Memory, before each kit, then do a drive cycle to let the computer adjust then make as many pulls as necessary to stablize the results.

A/F will be monitored for each system.

The only thing that affects A/F is the Maf Transfer Function, If the Maf transfer function is altered severely it throws off all the fueling and the timing calculations, I already know what to expect and will be watching this closely.

I was down this road 15 years ago with the LT1s and aftermarket mafs and cold air kits.

You will have to trust my experience in collecting solid data.
No problem Ted. I'm very much looking forward to what you come up with, and a HUGE thankyou for doing this! If it was practical for me to be there I'd sure be happy to volunteer to help you. You're not getting paid to do any of this and you don't even make a CAI to make some sales from. I totally respect your enthusiasm and what you're doing here!
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:32 AM   #36
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:33 AM   #37
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...You will have to trust my experience in collecting solid data.
can't wait to see the results! Thanks for the time/efforts your investing on our behalf.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:54 AM   #38
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OK great, now all these companies that were talking about testing can put up or shut up! I eagerly await the results!
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:00 AM   #39
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I hated the stock airbox and elbow. I bought a CAI for the looks, that is it! 1 - 15 "probable" increase in HP is just a bonus to me.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:14 AM   #40
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I will send in my lmr intake if Andy will send me one of his street versions..
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Old 09-22-2009, 02:37 PM   #41
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If you purchase a CAI,, is it worth it to get a aftermarket MAF as well? What bennefits would I see?
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Old 09-22-2009, 02:56 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Guys I don't want this to get out of hand so lets Please stick to the facts only.

I will be data logging the effects of the cold air kits on the Maf Transfer function and the fuel trims for each system.

I will also Clear the computers Memory, before each kit, then do a drive cycle to let the computer adjust then make as many pulls as necessary to stablize the results.

A/F will be monitored for each system.

The only thing that affects A/F is the Maf Transfer Function, If the Maf transfer function is altered severely it throws off all the fueling and the timing calculations, I already know what to expect and will be watching this closely.

I was down this road 15 years ago with the LT1s and aftermarket mafs and cold air kits.

You will have to trust my experience in collecting solid data.

I cant wait til you log fuel trims!

90% of the aftermarket cold air kits require programming to get the trims back in line.

This week Ive tuned a hennesey, rotofab and a ADM. And maf transfer tuning was needed.
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