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Old 09-22-2009, 03:13 PM   #43
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:44 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Icntdrv55 View Post
TED
If you purchase a CAI,, is it worth it to get a aftermarket MAF as well? What bennefits would I see?
Aftermarket meters are not needed unless you make enough power to max out the meter should be somewhere around 800+ to max out the meter.

A change in the housing changes how the meter reads, so you could potentially take the same meter to maybe 900+ in a bigger housing.

Ted.
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mike TexaSS View Post
I cant wait til you log fuel trims!

90% of the aftermarket cold air kits require programming to get the trims back in line.

This week Ive tuned a hennesey, rotofab and a ADM. And maf transfer tuning was needed.
Would you mind sharing, PM me or call 203-753-7223
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Old 09-22-2009, 05:45 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike TexaSS View Post
I cant wait til you log fuel trims!

90% of the aftermarket cold air kits require programming to get the trims back in line.

This week Ive tuned a hennesey, rotofab and a ADM. And maf transfer tuning was needed.
Can you please elaborate? I am not trying to be smarta$$, just want to understand this. Thanks.
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Old 09-22-2009, 06:57 PM   #47
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Can you please elaborate? I am not trying to be smarta$$, just want to understand this. Thanks.
OK, A Mass Air meter is calibrated in its original pipe/Air box in a Lab, X mass of air produces X Hz signal, the computer program has this information stored in what we call the Maf Transfer Function or Maf Calibration table.

When ever a Mass air meter is moved to another size, Shape, bend, pipe or exposed to another style air filter, 1 of 2 things happens, X Mass of air produces either less or more of a Hz signal.

The computer inturputes this as Less or More air respectively, and fueling is almost totally reliant on this signal.

Lets say we move more air but produce less Hz signal, this would cause a lean condition that the Fuel trims would have to make up for this by adding fuel initially in the short terms then stored permanately in the Long terms.

So If you look at your Long terms you can pretty much tell by what percent the Maf Transfer function is Skewed.

Now this also affects way more than just the fuel trims, it affects what I call the load calculations, which in turn affect where on the timing table the computer will select the timing cell with a number in it.

If you have ever looked at a timing table they typically have less timing at higher loads and more timing at lower loads.

So if above example would take place the computer would not reach the actual load value and select and higher timing value leading to the knock sensors pulling more timing.

I can't begin to tell you how complex this really is but this is a very short version of what happens when you change out your air box and move the mass air meter.

More air still means more power But the computer must be calibrated to maximize the benefits.

Years ago, the calibrations were no where near as complex and accurate as they are today, and the aftermarket cashed in on this with simple bolt ons to clean up already very rich or lax timing calibrations, and it worked quite well.

The cars and computers today are much more complex and much more accurate than I have ever seen in the past.

It was common to find 20-25 hp in a tune alone, Not today we only see 5-10 available and have to work pretty hard to get it.

Hope this answers your questions.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:02 PM   #48
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I should also Add,

Just because the mass air meter produces less or more of a Hz signal does not mean you are moving less or more air.

I has to do with location, turbulance, what side of the pipe the air favors, temp, etc.

If you could rotate the maf every clock position you would get different readings because of fluid dynamics.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:11 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike TexaSS View Post
I cant wait til you log fuel trims!

90% of the aftermarket cold air kits require programming to get the trims back in line.

This week Ive tuned a hennesey, rotofab and a ADM. And maf transfer tuning was needed.
Exactly, I am glad someone is deciding to do this. I will make sure one ships out tomorrow.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Red SS View Post
Ted,
Let me know when you decided to do the testing. I'd love to come by and watch. If you need a car to use, I should have mine next week!! I'll be speaking with you soon.



Jamie
Thanks for Offering your car up, I may have to take you up on that, I will let you know if the other car falls through.

Ted.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:29 PM   #51
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Exactly, I am glad someone is deciding to do this. I will make sure one ships out tomorrow.
Thank you LMR, that is 3 solid commitments, anyone else?

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Old 09-22-2009, 08:04 PM   #52
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:13 PM   #53
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When will this test be happening? We would like to send a TSP intake for testing.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:01 PM   #54
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Thank you LMR, that is 3 solid commitments, anyone else?

Revolution
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Sweet. Looks like I have 3 potential suppliers of my upcoming CAI purchase then.

I am soooooo tuned in to this CAI shootout. To me, any producer of a CAI that opts out of this is pretty much admitting to being a farce.


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Old 09-22-2009, 09:16 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
OK, A Mass Air meter is calibrated in its original pipe/Air box in a Lab, X mass of air produces X Hz signal, the computer program has this information stored in what we call the Maf Transfer Function or Maf Calibration table.

When ever a Mass air meter is moved to another size, Shape, bend, pipe or exposed to another style air filter, 1 of 2 things happens, X Mass of air produces either less or more of a Hz signal.

The computer inturputes this as Less or More air respectively, and fueling is almost totally reliant on this signal.

Lets say we move more air but produce less Hz signal, this would cause a lean condition that the Fuel trims would have to make up for this by adding fuel initially in the short terms then stored permanately in the Long terms.

So If you look at your Long terms you can pretty much tell by what percent the Maf Transfer function is Skewed.

Now this also affects way more than just the fuel trims, it affects what I call the load calculations, which in turn affect where on the timing table the computer will select the timing cell with a number in it.

If you have ever looked at a timing table they typically have less timing at higher loads and more timing at lower loads.

So if above example would take place the computer would not reach the actual load value and select and higher timing value leading to the knock sensors pulling more timing.

I can't begin to tell you how complex this really is but this is a very short version of what happens when you change out your air box and move the mass air meter.

More air still means more power But the computer must be calibrated to maximize the benefits.

Years ago, the calibrations were no where near as complex and accurate as they are today, and the aftermarket cashed in on this with simple bolt ons to clean up already very rich or lax timing calibrations, and it worked quite well.

The cars and computers today are much more complex and much more accurate than I have ever seen in the past.

It was common to find 20-25 hp in a tune alone, Not today we only see 5-10 available and have to work pretty hard to get it.

Hope this answers your questions.


Very nicely said! GM is spot on with their LS3 timing tables! The days of tuning a 02 F-body are dead. We will see which companies have done their homework as far as testing their intakes before selling them.


Waiting on the results.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:14 PM   #56
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Ted,

This testing is a great idea. How about posting the MAP at 6000 RPM. The stock intake on my L99 is usually 4 less than atmosphere on my logs. There could be a significant difference between them and might serve as a good airflow indicator for those that tune theirs.

Ron
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