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Old 09-23-2009, 08:19 PM   #1
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Virtual VE tuning

this program is a must have for anyone with hptuners tuning a ls3/l99 ecm with its virtual ve setup, the newer gm pcm's dont have a typical VE table for fuel control, you now have a virtual ve and maf to tune fuel.

this program is from the hptuners forum, it took me a while to get it figured out, my car would not run on the factory ve settings, when i would disconnect the maf it would just die and i couldnt even hardly keep running, after about an hour with this software i can now unplug my maf and drive away with no issues, the enigne fuel trims stay real close to what they were with the maf on.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:06 PM   #2
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Whats the advantage of running both MAF and VE. Can you feel the difference? Is the car more responsive? I'm just wondering, right now I have the MAF dialed in perfectly and the car feels great (dynamic airflow is off), I really don't believe tuning the VE table and turning them back on will result in any noticeable differences. . . but i could be wrong
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:17 PM   #3
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what if you are driving along and your maf fails and you dont have the ve tuned your car will probly run like crap. my setup would not run on the factory ve, but a car with just a few bolt-ons may be fine

give it a try, un plug your maf and see how it runs, log your fuel trims and see how far off they are
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:11 PM   #4
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Well since my VE is tuned out I don't think the car will run at all when I unplug the maf lol. Besides from having the backup if the MAF fails while driving I am wondering if tuning my VE will give me any benifits. I'll going to try tuning my VE just for fun but was just wondering if I should expect to see any differences. Thanks
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:24 PM   #5
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E85LSX - what other mods have you done to get to 420RWHP? Also, what all was required to tune for E85? I am planning to purchase HPT to tune my car....so I am in the uphill side of the learning curve. Thx
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:17 PM   #6
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Skip the VE tune crap and run MAF only. Eliminate the VE table imo. Yes the software works to tune the virtual VE but its still alot of extra un-needed work. LS3 sensors are terribly accurate and can handle ALOT of boost!
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:51 PM   #7
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I agree with you 2tightwads but as am experiment I will tune my VE and run both MAF and SD to see if it makes a difference. I will keep you guys posted as to what i find.


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E85LSX - what other mods have you done to get to 420RWHP? Also, what all was required to tune for E85? I am planning to purchase HPT to tune my car....so I am in the uphill side of the learning curve. Thx
I will pm you so we don't hijack this thread but my current mods are in my sig, headers and tuned. I did just finish putting a cam in her though so hopefully I'm closer to 500rwhp now! After I tune it in I'll dyno again and post the results in a new thread.
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Old 09-26-2009, 09:23 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by E85LSX View Post
I agree with you 2tightwads but as am experiment I will tune my VE and run both MAF and SD to see if it makes a difference. I will keep you guys posted as to what i find.




I will pm you so we don't hijack this thread but my current mods are in my sig, headers and tuned. I did just finish putting a cam in her though so hopefully I'm closer to 500rwhp now! After I tune it in I'll dyno again and post the results in a new thread.



are you using hptuners,can you post you e85 tune up, id like to look
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:14 PM   #9
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here you go, knock yourself out lol
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:42 AM   #10
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The VE tables are used for speed density calculations. Anytime you are changing the airflow requirements (beyond a cold air intake such as a blower, cam, heads, etc) using and tuning the VE table will help with transient fueling predictions (quick throttle changes). That being said you can still 100% disable the VE and run just the MAF
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:19 PM   #11
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Which tables are used for ve with this pcm?
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:40 PM   #12
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Which tables are used for ve with this pcm?


use the program from my first post and it will run you through which tables to load into it to create your virtual ve table, you can then modify the table and send the data back to the hp tuner file tables
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:29 AM   #13
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use the program from my first post and it will run you through which tables to load into it to create your virtual ve table, you can then modify the table and send the data back to the hp tuner file tables
Cool, thanks for the help. I have skipped from earlier models with tunable ve tables to a 2010 camaro ss with a maggie, so I'm back in the learning curve again!
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:42 AM   #14
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Cool, thanks for the help. I have skipped from earlier models with tunable ve tables to a 2010 camaro ss with a maggie, so I'm back in the learning curve again!
Sh!t you start tuning the MAF/new virtual VE tables and your WAY ahead of the learning curve. There are still shops out there who still rape the IFR/PE tables to get results, never even once touching the MAF/VE! Post you results okay!
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:45 PM   #15
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I like this forum much better than the HPT forum, most won't respond there....
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Old 03-27-2010, 09:54 AM   #16
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I just started tinkering with tuning the VE Table in my LS3 this past week, have most of the LTFTs under 4000 rpms in the =/-3% range. The real question I have is what is the definitive answer as to when the MAF is used for fueling and when the VE is. What settings in the tune determine when one is active and the other not during normal operation. I know by default as soon as you go above 4000rpms it is all MAF but what about at other times. I would like to run with both, GM has them both in there from the factory so I am assuming there is a reason for that. My MAF calibration is pretty solid with +/-2% LTFT up to about 7000hz, I haven't done WOT MAF calibration yet after starting from scratch last week.

My VE seems pretty good so far but I am having problems with cold starts that started this morning, she sounded like she had a big bump stick in her until she warmed up a little bit and the car went into closed loop.

HAs anyone here gotten the Virtual VE Tuned by either a shop or themselves?
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:27 PM   #17
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You have to fail out the MAF completely before you tune the VE table, and you can't just unplug the MAF to do that. You also need to disable VE completely before tuning the MAF. I'm not going into detail on what you need to do for accomplishing this because the answers are out there in plain daylight, and I've been traveling all day... and am consequently tired as hell!

As far as when is which one used... below 4000rpm, or whatever the high speed mode enabler is set to, both are used in conjunction with one another. Steady state operation tends to bias towards the MAF while transient operation biases towards the VE. I could say more, but bah... I want to sleep.
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:23 PM   #18
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Thanks DSteck, I know how to fail each one out to be able to tune the other, MAF by setting the fail frequency to 0 and VE by setting the disable rpm real low to 200. I know some folks are running MAF only and I was for a week or so but I was noticing a lean spike and some knock during tip-in for partial throttle acceleration when cruising so I was guessing that the VE table was used under more dynamic conditions and the MAF didn't respond as well to the transient fueling needed during tip-in... hence the "Dynamic Airflow" section in HPTuners. The lean spike and the reason for it is just a guess on my part right now.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:22 PM   #19
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I'm not a fan of MAF only.When the VE is tuned in right it is the best for response ect.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:35 PM   #20
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I'm not a fan of MAF only.When the VE is tuned in right it is the best for response ect.
+1

It is very easy to do pure MAF in a pinch though.
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:00 PM   #21
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Skip the VE tune crap and run MAF only. Eliminate the VE table imo. Yes the software works to tune the virtual VE but its still alot of extra un-needed work. LS3 sensors are terribly accurate and can handle ALOT of boost!

Why take away free insurance? Look running on ve alone is blindfolding your engine and running on maf alone is like not having a spare tire...


Tune both, use both. thats why they are there.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:35 PM   #22
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Skip the VE tune crap and run MAF only. Eliminate the VE table imo. Yes the software works to tune the virtual VE but its still alot of extra un-needed work. LS3 sensors are terribly accurate and can handle ALOT of boost!
People like this guy are the reason the internet can be a bad source for information sometimes.

I highly recommend dialing in VE tables. I get cars coming in from all over the country that have been previously "tuned", but don't run the way they should. Over 50% of them just needed a VE touch-up and the car ran perfect. It's more important than a lot of people give it credit for.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:25 PM   #23
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I re-tuned my single turbo car after finding issues with the tune by a shop in FL. IFR and PE tables were all over the place. I couldn't drive it two miles without the check engine light coming on. Also, Ford GT 500 injectors were used. Had my stock injectors opened up to 70lbs. and rescaled the stock injector table. Tuned the VE table. Then, reenabled the MAF and STFT's. Car runs great now. I used EFI Live.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:24 AM   #24
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I re-tuned my single turbo car after finding issues with the tune by a shop in FL. IFR and PE tables were all over the place. I couldn't drive it two miles without the check engine light coming on. Also, Ford GT 500 injectors were used. Had my stock injectors opened up to 70lbs. and rescaled the stock injector table. Tuned the VE table. Then, reenabled the MAF and STFT's. Car runs great now. I used EFI Live.
Let me guess.........


Norris?
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Old 05-29-2010, 01:28 PM   #25
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Let me guess.........


Norris?
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