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Old 09-24-2009, 05:10 PM   #26
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The GT500 starts at $46k. GM has never priced the Camaro at or below the price of the competing Mustang. They have always been more and they most likely will not break that habit now. I can see the base Z28 starting around $48-$50k with a higher trim level starting around $55k.
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:10 PM   #27
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Unless GM changes direction, we should expect to see at least two trim levels on the Z28. One would be a bare bone pure muscle and the other fully loaded top end version. As for price, again I would predict GM’s behavior, based on their prior behavior, I think we can safely assume they will want to under price both the GT 500 and the SRT8 and still provide better performance and more horsepower.
What GM wants is the car is to be priced as high as possible and people still buy it. They will maximize their profit that way.

A 2010 SRT8 Challenger MSRP is $42,XXX. There is a 0% chance a premium, limited edition Camaro 2 years away will be under that. In fact, the 2010 GT500 is 5-10 thousand dollars more than an SRT8 Challenger. They're not even in the same class because of this price difference.

With Chrylers current dismal state, look for the Challenger to be discontinued within 2 years and the company fall into their inevitable bankruptcy again.

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Old 09-24-2009, 08:32 PM   #28
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Unless GM changes direction, we should expect to see at least two trim levels on the Z28. One would be a bare bone pure muscle and the other fully loaded top end version. As for price, again I would predict GM’s behavior, based on their prior behavior, I think we can safely assume they will want to under price both the GT 500 and the SRT8 and still provide better performance and more horsepower.
Sorry man, But that is not possible. Every trim level of the camaro is more expensive than an equivilant mustang, the same will be for the Z28, it has always been that way. In no way shape or form could Gm sell a 550+hp camaro for under 42k and still be profitable and out perform the competition. Rember Ford is uping its game and are bringing the Heat next year, The 2011 Gt-500 will switch from an Iron block to an alluminum block, which will take about 100lbs off the nose, giving it even better handeling and acceleration. Ford's 5.4 v8 is going away, so a supercharged 5.0 32 Dohc V8 is a no brainer sooner or later.
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:34 PM   #29
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Well. A S/C is about $5,000, so i'm thinking probably $41,000 - $45,000 range.
More like $6,600. But you are forgetting Beefier brakes and suspension, wheels and tires. $50k is most likely the base price.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:49 PM   #30
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Going by power per dollar of the 2SS the Z28 should cost about $45,000.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:58 PM   #31
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I would say it has to be $50,000 at least!
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:29 PM   #32
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I'm gussing high 40's or low 50's. Either way I'm not going to be the sucker that pays $10k over sticker for it when it's new. I'm going to wait for 5 or 6 years down the road when one of those suckers wants to sell for $25k!
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:34 PM   #33
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What GM wants is the car is to be priced as high as possible and people still buy it. They will maximize their profit that way.

A 2010 SRT8 Challenger MSRP is $42,XXX. There is a 0% chance a premium, limited edition Camaro 2 years away will be under that. In fact, the 2010 GT500 is 5-10 thousand dollars more than an SRT8 Challenger. They're not even in the same class because of this price difference.

With Chrylers current dismal state, look for the Challenger to be discontinued within 2 years and the company fall into their inevitable bankruptcy again.
With an exception...not another bankruptcy. If the Challenger is discontinued, it will have been a call straight from Fiat, and I couldn't blame them -- it's uncompetitive, over-priced, and reports absolutely terrible sales. :( But that's neither here nor there.

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Sorry man, But that is not possible. Every trim level of the camaro is more expensive than an equivilant mustang, the same will be for the Z28, it has always been that way. In no way shape or form could Gm sell a 550+hp camaro for under 42k and still be profitable and out perform the competition. Rember Ford is uping its game and are bringing the Heat next year, The 2011 Gt-500 will switch from an Iron block to an alluminum block, which will take about 100lbs off the nose, giving it even better handeling and acceleration. Ford's 5.4 v8 is going away, so a supercharged 5.0 32 Dohc V8 is a no brainer sooner or later.
I agree with you on pricing.

And I think GM's got a few tricks up their sleeves to keep this particular pony at bay.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:46 AM   #34
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Back in early Spring when the Z28 was in one of the "on-again" stages, an acquaintance of mine (sorry, can't disclose) with direct information access gave me an early heads-up about a few things, including initial pricing targets for Z28.

A $52k base including gas guzzler was the number at that time, with a heavy-content standard spec. A few additional options would push a loaded car to $55k-ish. No indication of any provision for a "stripper" de-contented version.

This is neither speculation nor current info; rather it is accurate insider info from just prior to the last Z28 program "hold". Personally, I can hardly wait.
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:18 AM   #35
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low 40s to well into the 50s?

I have read every post here now – and I find the opinions \ speculation interesting.

Clearly my ‘estimates’ are on the low end of those posting. A few more thoughts \ clarifications of where my $$ numbers came from – FWIW. [ Again, I could be very wrong here. ]

My impression is that the S/C 6.2L V8 is fairly well established as the motor. And if an automatic trans. is offered, it will be the 6L90.

Thus, compared to the Mustang repeatedly mentioned here, this is a [ relatively ] ‘off-the-shelf’ drivetrain, with development & significant production volume already in place for the CTS-v. I think that this should allow a lower cost than a roughly equivalent HP \ TQ V8 developed & sold only in one low volume package.

The upgrade from the ‘normal’ CTS to the CTS-v [ again, just under $10K ] includes a change from a 3.6L V6 [ essentially the Camaro’s ‘base’ motor – at just over 300 HP ] all the way to the S/C V8. Where in the Camaro, the ‘normal’ top of the line drivetrain is already a 400+ HP 6.2L V8. Again, this leads me to believe that GM can hold the cost difference to less than the CTS to CTS-v difference.

And GM has shown a willingness, with the CTS-v, to price their top line Performance \ Sport Sedan aggressively, compared to competition such as the BMW M5.

Combined with the [ my guess here, again ] lack of MagRide for a Z28 and the other points I mentioned, I believe that the price increase could be held to less than $10K over a 2SS = $34K.
Thus, my guess is still $43K – ish. Base.

I have book marked this thread, and in 2 years I will see how clear my crystal ball was . . .

We shall see.
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:57 AM   #36
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words
The LSA is a guess. Wait atleast 12-18 months to know what motor will be in it. Anything else is pure speculation.

Price of a CTS-V has nothing to do with a Camaro as they're sold to two 100% different groups. Bad comparison from the start.

It will be priced near its relative competitor, the GT500.
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:57 AM   #37
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I can see the points made by both camps. My heart would live to see a mid $40's Z28 however I think even if GM could keep it that low, I think they are looking for dollars from the Z28. Therefore the pricing will not be as aggressive as they can get it, I look for the base to be just under $50 and optioned up to mid $50's.
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:42 AM   #38
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Well. A S/C is about $5,000, so i'm thinking probably $41,000 - $45,000 range.
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More like $6,600. But you are forgetting Beefier brakes and suspension, wheels and tires. $50k is most likely the base price.
I think that it would be even more than that. Maybe different prop' shaft, diff', and axles, let alone coils/springs/sway bars. It'd be cool to see some tech' from the ZR1/CTS-V, but I'm affraid it would drive the price WAY up (though I thought I remembered reading the Magneto' bits weren't too much more expensive... I can't see how that'd be the case though... nevermind). It'd be nice to see maybe that as a option, along with maybe upgraded 6-pot calipers on the front and bigger rotors. It sounds like the OEM 4-pots are doing just fine right now though, so who knows?


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Sorry man, But that is not possible. Every trim level of the camaro is more expensive than an equivilant mustang, the same will be for the Z28, it has always been that way. In no way shape or form could Gm sell a 550+hp camaro for under 42k and still be profitable and out perform the competition. Rember Ford is uping its game and are bringing the Heat next year, The 2011 Gt-500 will switch from an Iron block to an alluminum block, which will take about 100lbs off the nose, giving it even better handeling and acceleration. Ford's 5.4 v8 is going away, so a supercharged 5.0 32 Dohc V8 is a no brainer sooner or later.
That's trouble Where will it end?

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With an exception...not another bankruptcy. If the Challenger is discontinued, it will have been a call straight from Fiat, and I couldn't blame them -- it's uncompetitive, over-priced, and reports absolutely terrible sales. :( But that's neither here nor there.

I agree with you on pricing.

And I think GM's got a few tricks up their sleeves to keep this particular pony at bay.
I hope you're right about the tricks

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Originally Posted by WYD OPN View Post
Back in early Spring when the Z28 was in one of the "on-again" stages, an acquaintance of mine (sorry, can't disclose) with direct information access gave me an early heads-up about a few things, including initial pricing targets for Z28.

A $52k base including gas guzzler was the number at that time, with a heavy-content standard spec. A few additional options would push a loaded car to $55k-ish. No indication of any provision for a "stripper" de-contented version.

This is neither speculation nor current info; rather it is accurate insider info from just prior to the last Z28 program "hold". Personally, I can hardly wait.
Interesting...

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Originally Posted by rayainsw View Post
I have read every post here now – and I find the opinions \ speculation interesting.

Clearly my ‘estimates’ are on the low end of those posting. A few more thoughts \ clarifications of where my $$ numbers came from – FWIW. [ Again, I could be very wrong here. ]

My impression is that the S/C 6.2L V8 is fairly well established as the motor. And if an automatic trans. is offered, it will be the 6L90.

Thus, compared to the Mustang repeatedly mentioned here, this is a [ relatively ] ‘off-the-shelf’ drivetrain, with development & significant production volume already in place for the CTS-v. I think that this should allow a lower cost than a roughly equivalent HP \ TQ V8 developed & sold only in one low volume package.

The upgrade from the ‘normal’ CTS to the CTS-v [ again, just under $10K ] includes a change from a 3.6L V6 [ essentially the Camaro’s ‘base’ motor – at just over 300 HP ] all the way to the S/C V8. Where in the Camaro, the ‘normal’ top of the line drivetrain is already a 400+ HP 6.2L V8. Again, this leads me to believe that GM can hold the cost difference to less than the CTS to CTS-v difference.

And GM has shown a willingness, with the CTS-v, to price their top line Performance \ Sport Sedan aggressively, compared to competition such as the BMW M5.

Combined with the [ my guess here, again ] lack of MagRide for a Z28 and the other points I mentioned, I believe that the price increase could be held to less than $10K over a 2SS = $34K.
Thus, my guess is still $43K – ish. Base.

I have book marked this thread, and in 2 years I will see how clear my crystal ball was . . .

We shall see.
- Ray
Hoping I am right – but acknowledging that I may not be . . .
Those comparisons don't sound unreasonable, but yeah; I gotta' agee that that is VERY wishful thinking (hey - I'm hoping for it too )
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:54 AM   #39
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they'll price it most likely at gt500 territory. maybe 1k more.
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:14 AM   #40
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It would have to start at less than 45K.
GM is all focused on VALUE (ZR/1 is great example) which is great! That being said I agree with the attached post.

Look at the SS/1 better performance than the SRT8 at $10K less, and it compares just under the GT500 in performance for almost $20K less.

YES YOU GO GM, WE LOVE TO SEE YOU OPTING FOR HIGH VALUE!
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:20 AM   #41
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I'm going to bet right around 40k - 45k. Don't really have to worry about 'competing' with the CTS-V as that is a caddy and a luxury vehicle. They will definitely want to price it under the GT500 so they can steal sales from it, and this price point sounds about right for the LSA engine and other body upgrades that will be on the Z28.
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:08 PM   #42
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For $33,450 Chevrolet gives a 6.2L 426 hp V8, $30,995 at the Ford dealer you get a 4.6L 315 hp V8 and Dodge has a 5.7L 370 hp V8 at $30,220. If you're buying a performance car and you want the more horsepower where is the best deal? Chevy is selling a larger engine with more horsepower for about the same price range. Doing some really simple math, with all other things being equal, the Chevy will cost about $78 per horse, Ford gets $98 and Dodge comes in around $82 for each horse. Again assuming we only care about horsepower the Camaro provides 111 more horse than the GT for an additional $2455 and 56 more horses than the R/T for $775.

On the other side of the coin, if you want to buy 400+ horsepower from Ford or Dodge, what will it cost you? Unless you can find a Mustang between the Mustang Premium GT and the Shelby GT500, you will need to come up with $47,175, for a Shelby with 5.4L 540 hp V8. Take you checkbook over to Dodge and a 2009 Challenger SRT8 with a 6.1L 425 hp V8 is going to set you back $40,220. The competition is not offering the same performance within the same price range. This is the reason why when automotive magazines like “Car and Drive” and “Motor Trend” do side-by-side comparisons the Camaro SS is the easy winner. The 2010 Camaro is offering much more performance for the money.

The 426 hp Camaro SS at $33,450 is a great deal and well under the price of the same level performance offered by either Ford or Dodge. The V6 Camaro is in a similar position, the Camaro LS Coupe at $22,680 with a 3.6L 304 hp V6, the Mustang V6 Coupe at $20,995 with a 4.0L 210 hp V6 and the Challenger SE at $22,220 with a 3.5L 250 hp V6. The other interesting item about the Camaros position in the market place is the fuel economy (MPG) which is almost identical to its rivals while providing more power. On paper looking at these numbers Chevrolet clearly hit this out of the ball park.

Getting back to the Z28, if you accept the concept that the Camaro SS is currently providing more performance and better fuel economy for your money, then it becomes pretty clear that there is a place in the market for a Z28. The Z28 would need around 500 ponies under the hood and a price in $40,000-45,000 range. This would keep the Camaro Z28 well under the Shelby price and provide more power then Challenger SRT8.

Chevrolet should maintain the approach of multiple model trim levels by offering the Z28 in two trim levels. The difference would be the same as between the 1LT to 2LT or the 1SS to 2SS. The only real question is would there be an RS type option package to add the body-color roof ditch molding.

* All prices and horsepower figures are from MSN Auto web site (http://autos.msn.com)
** Both “Car and Driver” and “Motor Trend” did cover stories comparing the Camaro SS, Mustang GT and Challenger R/T the cars were selected because they were in the same price range.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:41 PM   #43
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For $33,450 Chevrolet gives a 6.2L 426 hp V8, $30,995 at the Ford dealer you get a 4.6L 315 hp V8 and Dodge has a 5.7L 370 hp V8 at $30,220. If you're buying a performance car and you want the more horsepower where is the best deal? Chevy is selling a larger engine with more horsepower for about the same price range. Doing some really simple math, with all other things being equal, the Chevy will cost about $78 per horse, Ford gets $98 and Dodge comes in around $82 for each horse. Again assuming we only care about horsepower the Camaro provides 111 more horse than the GT for an additional $2455 and 56 more horses than the R/T for $775.

On the other side of the coin, if you want to buy 400+ horsepower from Ford or Dodge, what will it cost you? Unless you can find a Mustang between the Mustang Premium GT and the Shelby GT500, you will need to come up with $47,175, for a Shelby with 5.4L 540 hp V8. Take you checkbook over to Dodge and a 2009 Challenger SRT8 with a 6.1L 425 hp V8 is going to set you back $40,220. The competition is not offering the same performance within the same price range. This is the reason why when automotive magazines like “Car and Drive” and “Motor Trend” do side-by-side comparisons the Camaro SS is the easy winner. The 2010 Camaro is offering much more performance for the money.

The 426 hp Camaro SS at $33,450 is a great deal and well under the price of the same level performance offered by either Ford or Dodge. The V6 Camaro is in a similar position, the Camaro LS Coupe at $22,680 with a 3.6L 304 hp V6, the Mustang V6 Coupe at $20,995 with a 4.0L 210 hp V6 and the Challenger SE at $22,220 with a 3.5L 250 hp V6. The other interesting item about the Camaros position in the market place is the fuel economy (MPG) which is almost identical to its rivals while providing more power. On paper looking at these numbers Chevrolet clearly hit this out of the ball park.

Getting back to the Z28, if you accept the concept that the Camaro SS is currently providing more performance and better fuel economy for your money, then it becomes pretty clear that there is a place in the market for a Z28. The Z28 would need around 500 ponies under the hood and a price in $40,000-45,000 range. This would keep the Camaro Z28 well under the Shelby price and provide more power then Challenger SRT8.

Chevrolet should maintain the approach of multiple model trim levels by offering the Z28 in two trim levels. The difference would be the same as between the 1LT to 2LT or the 1SS to 2SS. The only real question is would there be an RS type option package to add the body-color roof ditch molding.

* All prices and horsepower figures are from MSN Auto web site (http://autos.msn.com)
** Both “Car and Driver” and “Motor Trend” did cover stories comparing the Camaro SS, Mustang GT and Challenger R/T the cars were selected because they were in the same price range.
I believe your about $2K high.
Yes 2 trim levels is a must!
RS IS A MUST!
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Old 09-26-2009, 02:46 PM   #44
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We all thrive on anticipation and speculation, since it's a vital part of the overall enthusiast's passion, etc.; and this thread is specifically a "what do you think?" thread. But... Ultimately, our desires, opinions, and projections aren't the bulk part of the business model.

Z28 is not a "value" business model at GM; it's a "profit" and "niche image" scenario. Production will be tiny relative to even the "New GM" scale of production. Beyond initial engineering, Z28 will simply be a product that has to meet spreadsheet viability goals for the corporate bottom-line. That means per-unit profitability well beyond what the V6/SS "value Camaros" must sustain. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, oughta... All ultimately moot points, as entertaining and enlightening as they are.

Recent valid insider info indicates Z28 base price will be in the low-50s including gas guzzler. Much as we all would like to have one for $5k-$10k less, it "ain't happenin'". Considering the overall economic and environmental conditions and mindsets, I'm glad the Z28 will make it into production regardless of the final MSRP.

Bottom line: A 550+ SAE net hp Camaro is an unprecedented historical event, AND it's happening against all possible odds. I hope the enthusiast community doesn't levy price-based criticism at GM when Z28 costs "too much". Expect it: $50k-plus... And well worth every penny and more.
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:16 PM   #45
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I believe your about $2K high.
Yes 2 trim levels is a must!
RS IS A MUST!
Camaro prices from the Chevy web site:
1SS $30,745
2SS $33,745


Prices from MSN:
1SS $30,745
2SS $33,450

What did I miss?
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:23 PM   #46
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We all thrive on anticipation and speculation, since it's a vital part of the overall enthusiast's passion, etc.; and this thread is specifically a "what do you think?" thread. But... Ultimately, our desires, opinions, and projections aren't the bulk part of the business model.

Z28 is not a "value" business model at GM; it's a "profit" and "niche image" scenario. Production will be tiny relative to even the "New GM" scale of production. Beyond initial engineering, Z28 will simply be a product that has to meet spreadsheet viability goals for the corporate bottom-line. That means per-unit profitability well beyond what the V6/SS "value Camaros" must sustain. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, oughta... All ultimately moot points, as entertaining and enlightening as they are.

Recent valid insider info indicates Z28 base price will be in the low-50s including gas guzzler. Much as we all would like to have one for $5k-$10k less, it "ain't happenin'". Considering the overall economic and environmental conditions and mindsets, I'm glad the Z28 will make it into production regardless of the final MSRP.

Bottom line: A 550+ SAE net hp Camaro is an unprecedented historical event, AND it's happening against all possible odds. I hope the enthusiast community doesn't levy price-based criticism at GM when Z28 costs "too much". Expect it: $50k-plus... And well worth every penny and more.
I understand where your coming from, however GM as a whole is on the better value than the competition bandwagon (think Kia & Hyundai, it's worked well for them). They will offer more for less than the GT500.
They also thought the Camaro as a whole, and then the SS V8 would be niche, but look at the volume.
Make no mistake about it the Z/28 is all marketing!

All that being said i can't believe for a moment they would not offer 2 trim levels in the Z/28 as they offer in the V6 & SS. Pricing Low $40's to High $40's.


p.s. noticed you own a ZR1, based on performance comparisons that Vette could sell easily for another $20K - $30K, again VALUE is ruling at GM.
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:53 PM   #47
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$47000
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:58 PM   #48
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I hope Killers' wrong, but those look like "reasonable" numbers.
?

Killer hasn't posted here yet.
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Old 09-26-2009, 04:01 PM   #49
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Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 284
We all know how great looking the Gen 5 is and the z-28 will probably be even greater looking. If you take an MSRP of $52,000 & add tax, that's another $4,500 for me at least plus i'm sure they will be getting over list too! No Camaro is worth that much to me! They have to be careful not to price themselves out of the market. How many could they sell with the price approaching $60,000?
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Old 09-26-2009, 05:23 PM   #50
ironpeddler
 
Drives: 2010 Shelby GT500
Join Date: May 2009
Location: OH
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I understand where your coming from, however GM as a whole is on the better value than the competition bandwagon (think Kia & Hyundai, it's worked well for them). They will offer more for less than the GT500.
They also thought the Camaro as a whole, and then the SS V8 would be niche, but look at the volume.
Make no mistake about it the Z/28 is all marketing!
Look, IMHO anyone who thinks that the starting out MSRP will be anything less than $45k is a fool and that is being on the cheap side. I would agree with WYD OPN, I think the MSRP will be closer to $50k than it will be to $45k.

Offers more for less than a GT500? Depends on what you are looking at. The whole GT500 engine is forged, not getting that with a similiar priced Z28 are you? This means alot to some people and not so much to others. The GT500 engine is hand-made, not getting that for a similiar priced Z28 are you? Again this means something to others and nothing to some. All components on the GT500 are made to handle almost any mods/mass power, I guess we will just have to wait and see if the Z28 components are the same way. Point is there is alot more value in a GT500 than what you might think when you look at its price tag, so before you go saying Z28 will be more value for its money you need to realize fully what the GT500 has to offer cause IMHO the are going to be priced about identical to each other and they will both offer great things to their buyers.

It just all depends on the person(s) personal preference, what they value in a car, and what they want to do with that car.
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