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Old 05-03-2010, 07:31 AM   #101
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Great run! Besides the LSA conversion, what have you done to her?
+1

robin, it seems that 2012-2013 will be a very good time to buy a muscle car, and I will be comparing all three, but am leaning toward the Z/28..I have a 2010 SS...what is your opinion on the 0-60 and 1/4 mile time of the Z/28 with LSA straight from the factory with a good driver?

Thanks!! for all your help!!!
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:40 AM   #102
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Hey guys, here is a link to an interview about the build. It lists some of the mods done to the LSA.

http://www.lsxtv.com/forum/robin-law...-lsa-2576.html


Z28 (if it gets the LSA ) will be on par with the CTS-V numbers. They are not far apart on the weight. Low 12's or mid 11's with sticky tires and a tune.

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Old 05-03-2010, 10:19 AM   #103
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1) The first is a mystery car that I am sworn to secrecy...Robin
Everyone love a "mystery car."

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Old 05-03-2010, 10:38 AM   #104
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Everyone love a "mystery car."

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I have only heard rumors , whenever I ask any questions the conversations usually end.

It would be cool to see that car if it still exists.

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Old 05-03-2010, 05:18 PM   #105
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Indeed sir, indeed.

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Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
But you're assuming that people are going to cross-shop the Z28 and Corvette. As many people have said in the past, and I was/am one of them, just because two cars have a similar price point or power output, it does not make them competitors.

While there are a lot of people on this and other performance forums who would rather buy a Corvette than a Camaro, if the price point was near the same, there are a lot more that realize that they are two completely different cars built for two different purposes. Personally, I don't think a Z28 version of a Camaro, even at close to the same price and power output, is going to cut into the sales of base Corvettes. And certainly not the Z06.

I did not buy a GT500 because I could not afford a Corvette, nor did I buy it because I thought it offered better performance. I bought it because it was the vehicle that best suited my desires/needs at this point in my life.
Very well said, I would even venture to say, in my case i have kids, a wife, like to hang with friends, pets, pick up hot stranded chics ect ect (I'm a good samaritan, my biggest flaw), and i can fit MOAR of the afformentioned things in my Camaro as compaired to a Vette. Corvettes are ok for what they are, flashy and bang for the buck when compaired to a Lambo! lol =)
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:39 PM   #106
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LSA!

This is indeed the motor I would choose, didnt a GM source already state this motor would be the one? Hmm thought i recently read that in a Camaro5 forums, hmmm, if i can find that again i will post a link, unless someone beats me to it.

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Old 07-07-2010, 10:20 PM   #107
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Yes and no, the bolt patter is the same for the tops. The LSA and the LSA have sensors in different positions and the fuel rails are different. For that reason you would need to make some modifications,

The LSA uses 1 square intercooler towards the rear or raised portion of the top. The air from the TVS 1900 goes straight up then makes the turn after passing through the intercooler core. The core sits on a square rubber gasket that is in a recess in the lower manifold.

The LS9 uses 2 intercooler cores that sit to the sdie of the opening of the TVS2300. The air makes the turn before the intercooler core. The LS9 lower has 2 rubber gasket strips that run the length of the manifold.

If you were to use the LS9 top on the LSA lower you would need to make some seals to close the gaps from the different gasket configurations. You could rig something up pretty easily but the efficency would suffer.

Here is the kicker, the LSA intercooler is less restrictive and more efficiant that the LS9. That statment should cause some LS9 huggers a little heartburn.

My thoughts.....of course

Robin
Do you know if the drive pulley lines up the same on the r1900 and r2300. Mainly I am wondering if the 2300 can be used with the ctsv front pulley system.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:16 AM   #108
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LSA is an amazing engine and in the CTS-V world class. But I still don't think it's a great fit for the Camaro especially one wearing Z28. A uber expensive Chevy GT500 isn't the Z28 formula. I know the Z28 brand has been tarnished, watered down and almost lost since early in the second generation but that doesn't mean that GM needs to stray further from the point in the 5th Gen.
I'd rather see the LS7 dropped in and focus on improved handling and maybe even some weight reduction if Z28 is going on the fender. I know this won't happen and frankly 556 HP gives Chevy some bragging rights and there is no doubt the car will run some terrific numbers but it's not Z28 to me.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:47 AM   #109
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Do you know if the drive pulley lines up the same on the r1900 and r2300. Mainly I am wondering if the 2300 can be used with the ctsv front pulley system.
It looks close... You're going to have to change the pulleys to match the rib count. Maybe a Lingenfelter snout conversion may work?... Interesting idea - KUDOS!!!
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:51 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by KarFan View Post
LSA is an amazing engine and in the CTS-V world class. But I still don't think it's a great fit for the Camaro especially one wearing Z28. A uber expensive Chevy GT500 isn't the Z28 formula. I know the Z28 brand has been tarnished, watered down and almost lost since early in the second generation but that doesn't mean that GM needs to stray further from the point in the 5th Gen.
I'd rather see the LS7 dropped in and focus on improved handling and maybe even some weight reduction if Z28 is going on the fender. I know this won't happen and frankly 556 HP gives Chevy some bragging rights and there is no doubt the car will run some terrific numbers but it's not Z28 to me.
that sir is your personal opinion and although in some aspects I agree. like the weight reduction. BUT the LS7 is a limiting factor for performance minded individuals. while the LSA is a good engine to start off with.

but how can you say the Z28 is watered down when the 4th gen Z28 out handled the 1st gen? and it will be the same with the 5th gen. you can guarantee that.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:55 AM   #111
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that sir is your personal opinion and although in some aspects I agree. like the weight reduction. BUT the LS7 is a limiting factor for performance minded individuals. while the LSA is a good engine to start off with.

but how can you say the Z28 is watered down when the 4th gen Z28 out handled the 1st gen? and it will be the same with the 5th gen. you can guarantee that.
A 1LE 4th Gen runs pretty dang good. My '02 Z28 wasn't watered down
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:25 PM   #112
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Lets say the Z is 2012 with the LSA and 6 speed, good driver, --what is the 1/4 mile time????????????
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:27 PM   #113
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Lets say the Z is 2012 with the LSA and 6 speed, good driver, --what is the 1/4 mile time????????????
Some rags' have been getting low-to-bottom-12s with A6 CTS-Vs, that I suspect would weigh a couple hundred pounds more, so I'm going to say it should be aroud there.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:53 PM   #114
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that sir is your personal opinion and although in some aspects I agree. like the weight reduction. BUT the LS7 is a limiting factor for performance minded individuals. while the LSA is a good engine to start off with.

but how can you say the Z28 is watered down when the 4th gen Z28 out handled the 1st gen? and it will be the same with the 5th gen. you can guarantee that.
Well I think that since the Z28 has changed so much from its initial 1st Gen formula as a factory built Camaro for specifications to compete in the Trans Am series against other American built Pony cars. Not comparing the generations against each other but more of understanding what the Z28 was built for and what it has become. Nimble handling, great balance and proportional power for the best overall performance was the Z28 and that's quite different than the more street set up SS that was built for the more traditional muscle car era of straight line performance. That formula was lost in the second and forth generations when the Z28 maybe by its own popularity just became the base model V8 Camaro while the SS went on hiatus.
The 4th Gen seemed to actually flip the SS and Z28 around. The SS was a better balanced and better handling car than the non 1LE Z28. Much appreciation to the 4th Gen 1LE Z28 they are great cars and well deserving of the Z28 heritage IMO.
I guess you have to figure for yourself what the Z28 brand means. To me it's not the base V8 Camaro and it's also not a nose heavy supercharged 4000+ lb uber expensive Camaro. An LSA powered Camaro moves further from the Z28 identity IMO. Should we call that Camaro ZL1 and leave the Z28 brand to history until a Camaro comes along that can fit the formula? I guess that's for GM marketing to figure out.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:52 PM   #115
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Well I think that since the Z28 has changed so much from its initial 1st Gen formula as a factory built Camaro for specifications to compete in the Trans Am series against other American built Pony cars. Not comparing the generations against each other but more of understanding what the Z28 was built for and what it has become. Nimble handling, great balance and proportional power for the best overall performance was the Z28 and that's quite different than the more street set up SS that was built for the more traditional muscle car era of straight line performance. That formula was lost in the second and forth generations when the Z28 maybe by its own popularity just became the base model V8 Camaro while the SS went on hiatus.
The 4th Gen seemed to actually flip the SS and Z28 around. The SS was a better balanced and better handling car than the non 1LE Z28. Much appreciation to the 4th Gen 1LE Z28 they are great cars and well deserving of the Z28 heritage IMO.
I guess you have to figure for yourself what the Z28 brand means. To me it's not the base V8 Camaro and it's also not a nose heavy supercharged 4000+ lb uber expensive Camaro. An LSA powered Camaro moves further from the Z28 identity IMO. Should we call that Camaro ZL1 and leave the Z28 brand to history until a Camaro comes along that can fit the formula? I guess that's for GM marketing to figure out.
seeing how you are aware of the history. you will recall the only reason the SS out performed the 4th gen Z28 in handling and straight line other then the 1LE's. is because SLP and the fact the Z28 was already in production. peoples views are skewed on the 4th gen setup.

as for the 4000+lb camaro we don't even know what a Z28 will be. everyone is assuming it's going to be an LSA powered camaro with no other real modifications. we might see an LSA powered light weight due to titanium/aluminum/carbon fiber etc. we might see, god forbid, a TT v6 camaro like the jay leno car. with the light weight materials. all this is speculation.

Times change, cars purposes change (no more trans am series), and just because it weights in at over 4000 lbs doesn't mean it can't perform. in the end that's what matters most. performance.

you and me both would love to see a lighter version of the camaro and a non FI camaro. but no LS7 for me. give me that DI v8 pushing more hp with less ci. but we will see what happens.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:19 AM   #116
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The LSA

Detroit 2008: 2009 LSA 6.2L supercharged V-8 in depth

by Sam Abuelsamid (RSS feed) on Jan 14th 2008 at 12:00AM





We've now had a couple of weeks to digest the new 620+hp LS9 V8 in the Corvette ZR1, it's time to see what else the GM Powertrain team has up its sleeves. The other half of the GM power duo to be displayed at the 2008 North American International Auto Show is the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. The CTS-V is propelled by an engine closely related to the LS9 and carrying the designation LSA.

Like the LS9, the LSA is an aluminum block 6.2L V-8 with an Eaton 6th generation two-rotor supercharger. The basic configuration matches the LS9 with the blower sitting in the valley of the block. An air to liquid intercooler sits on top of the supercharger. Differences between the two engines are primarily intended to give the Cadillac an extra air of refinement compared to the sports car and result in the LSA "only" producing 550 hp and 550 lb-ft of torque. Read on after the jump to learn about the differences between the LS9 and LSA.

[Source: General Motors]

Gallery: Detroit 2008: GM LSA V-8






The single biggest difference leading to lower output for the Cadillac is the supercharger displacement. While the LS9 has a 2.3L blower, the unit in the CTS-V only displaces 1.9L. Aside from the size, the blower is based on the same four lobe rotor design with 160 degrees of twist to the lobes. The design provides greater efficiency and thirty-five percent less power draw than the previous three lobe design in addition to much quieter operation. The maximum boost pressure is reduced from 10.5 psi to 9.0 psi.

Since the CTS-V had a little more vertical and longitudinal space under the hood than the Corvette, the engineers were able to use a different intercooler. The LS9 intercooler has two separate heat exchanger units that are split on either side of the supercharger outlet. The LSA has a single heat exchanger that is slightly taller but has more efficient airflow. The other packaging difference is the use of a third drive belt dedicated to the supercharger rather than the two belt system used on the ZR1 engine.



The lower pressures mean that some of the material changes that were implemented on the LS9 were not necessary on the LSA. The titanium connecting rods and intake valves are replaced by forged powdered metal and SilChromel, respectively. The exhaust valves on the LSA are not sodium filled either. The exhaust manifolds are cast iron rather than stainless steel as on the LS9 and the main bearing caps are nodular iron rather than steel.

The pistons in the LSA are hyper-eutectic cast aluminum rather than being forged. The piston skirts are polymer coated for improved scuff resistance and reduced NVH. The sumped top design of the pistons is retained, which allows for clearing the valves without machined valve pockets. The continuous surface free of edges helps to avoid hot spots that can contribute to pre-ignition.

The LSA also gets the dual pressure fuel system used in the the LS9, but the top pressure is reduced from 600kPa to 450kPa. The LSA gets the same beefed up block casting, seven-layer head gasket and 12mm head bolts as its big brother. The improved lubrication system including the squirters that spray oil on the bottom of the pistons is also retained. In total, the LSA and LS9 have about 100 new part compared to the LS7 in the current Corvette Z06. Of those, about twenty-five percent are common to both engines.

The end result is an engine that compared with the BMW M5 has 50 hp more at its peak and, more importantly, a much fatter torque curve. At 1,200 rpm the LSA is already producing more torque than the 383lb-ft that the M5 engine makes at its 6,100 rpm peak, and it never really lets up. It's the kind twisting force that gives you a shove in the back and just keeps pushing and pushing as long as the driver has the nerve to keep his or her right foot planted.

Filed under: Detroit Auto Show, Technology, Cadillac

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Old 12-27-2010, 10:26 AM   #117
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rehash?

http://camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44331
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:30 PM   #118
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More more, I love storeis like thease
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:30 PM   #119
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So I guess the LSA is ALOT different from our LS3's no?
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:11 AM   #120
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So I guess the LSA is ALOT different from our LS3's no?
You can examine some of the different features and similarities here"
http://archives.media.gm.com/us/powe...a/10car_us.htm

The LSA is noted across the 2nd last row from the bottom of the chart. Click on the "SS" and "S" links for an excel spreadsheet and written summary.
Do the same higher up on the chart for the LS3.

Further along on the right side of the chart, you can do the same thing in order to compare the 6L80 and 6L90 automatic transmissions and the different versions of the Tremec TR6060 used in the Camaro (M10) and the CTS-V (MG9). Interesting to compare the maximum gearbox torque for the 2 versions...

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Old 12-28-2010, 09:04 AM   #121
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You can examine some of the different features and similarities here"
http://archives.media.gm.com/us/powe...a/10car_us.htm

The LSA is noted across the 2nd last row from the bottom of the chart. Click on the "SS" and "S" links for an excel spreadsheet and written summary.
Do the same higher up on the chart for the LS3.

Further along on the right side of the chart, you can do the same thing in order to compare the 6L80 and 6L90 automatic transmissions and the different versions of the Tremec TR6060 used in the Camaro (M10) and the CTS-V (MG9). Interesting to compare the maximum gearbox torque for the 2 versions...

Best regards,

Elie
Did anyone else notice that it says 87 octane for the LS7! I guess I need to get me a Z06 for cheaper gas.....anyone think the wife will go for that?
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:11 AM   #122
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Did anyone else notice that it says 87 octane for the LS7! I guess I need to get me a Z06 for cheaper gas.....anyone think the wife will go for that?
+1, The SS runs on 87 for a year now.
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:12 AM   #123
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Did anyone else notice that it says 87 octane for the LS7! I guess I need to get me a Z06 for cheaper gas.....anyone think the wife will go for that?
That's funny! Guess nobody's perfect! If you look on the Excel spreadsheet though for the LS7, it does indicate "premium unleaded" as required.
LS3 shows 87-91 octane while the LSA and LS9 both indicate 91-93 octane.

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Old 12-30-2010, 09:44 AM   #124
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+1, The SS runs on 87 for a year now.
I just can't bring myself to do it even for .20 less per gallon and 125 miles a day back and forth to work. Even with a tuner that can tune for 87....
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:46 AM   #125
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My 2SS was only $38,000. and it has every option except the auto trans.
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