Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Solo Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics

Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics Camaro ZL1 specific topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-26-2009, 11:08 PM   #1
cobra 23
 
Drives: 03 cobra
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: los angeles
Posts: 3
z28 question?

if a new supercharged z28 is made, how much do you think it will weigh?
cobra 23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2009, 11:09 PM   #2
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,397
Who knows.... Its all guessing right now!
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2009, 11:16 PM   #3
cobra 23
 
Drives: 03 cobra
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: los angeles
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by shnomac77 View Post
Who knows.... Its all guessing right now!
im thinking about 4200 with the supercharger, intercooler, and heat exchanger.
cobra 23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2009, 11:20 PM   #4
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,397
Who knows???? We dont know anything about it....

Last edited by ShnOmac; 09-27-2009 at 12:25 PM.
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 09:51 AM   #5
clark17357
 
clark17357's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Shelby GT/SC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 15
Perhaps the question could be, "What do you think it needs to weigh to deliver the performance of the past in today's world?"

If that is the question, would the target not be about 3,500 pounds?

Jim
__________________
2008 Shelby GT/SC Mustang, Vista Blue with Silver Stripes, 5-Speed, Coupe, Center gauge cluster, Kenne Bell supercharger, Front and rear brake ducts, AP Racing brakes (6-piston front, 4-piston rear), Fays2 Watts Link, Metco upper and lower control arms, BBR 3.5" aluminum drive shaft, BMR front drive shaft safety loop; Autopower four point roll bar, Autopower five point racing harnesses (both sides), and Camber/caster plates. Dyno results: 453 rear wheel torque, 447 rear wheel horse power @ 67 degrees F, 75% humidity @ sea level.
clark17357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 09:55 AM   #6
Super83Z
 
Super83Z's Avatar
 
Drives: 1999 Z28 1983 Z28
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: City of Champions,MA
Posts: 616
REcently a magazine stated that it would be 200-300 lbs lighter than the CTS-V. The CTS weighs almost 4300.
__________________
Current cars:
1983 Z28
1999 Z28
201x Z28?
Super83Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 10:00 AM   #7
superstockcam
Member
 
superstockcam's Avatar
 
Drives: a
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: here
Posts: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra 23 View Post
im thinking about 4200 with the supercharger, intercooler, and heat exchanger.
I'll opt out of the intercooler and heat exchanger if mine has a supercharger...

I was told the workbench for ordering will open in may 2010 by the fleet sales at the dealership I use, I'll be there for a Z28 first, vert second choice. Either way I'm getting a top of the line, loaded and hopefully under 10k VIN of every year in this generation.
________
Wendie 99

Last edited by superstockcam; 04-19-2011 at 03:12 AM.
superstockcam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 10:16 AM   #8
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 ATS 2.0T & '14 Chevrolet SS
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17357 View Post
Perhaps the question could be, "What do you think it needs to weigh to deliver the performance of the past in today's world?"
If that is the question, would the target not be about 3,500 pounds?

Jim
Just curious, what do you think about the past would even come close to today's SS?

Todays SS makes 426 HP SAE Net. This is, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, approaching 500 HP gross as reported back in the 60s (which what I think you are saying). The IRS, the Brembo brakes, 6 speed transmissions are all things in the today's world that even a COPO couldn't touch. And that doesn't even come close the weakest link in the old cars..........tires.

This is a great discussion, it's like comparing athletes from different eras as to who is better, but the only thing I see in the older cars is a bit lower mass and that is made up for with the structure and safety hardware required in the modern era.

Seriously, I would like to hear what in old cars a modern Z28 would need to do/be.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the old cars. They just don't hold a candle to todays car other than the mystique that's great to talk about.
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley Link to Every Camaro photo I've taken in Hi-Resolution
Number 3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 10:31 AM   #9
clark17357
 
clark17357's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Shelby GT/SC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Just curious, what do you think about the past would even come close to today's SS?

Todays SS makes 426 HP SAE Net. This is, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, approaching 500 HP gross as reported back in the 60s (which what I think you are saying). The IRS, the Brembo brakes, 6 speed transmissions are all things in the today's world that even a COPO couldn't touch. And that doesn't even come close the weakest link in the old cars..........tires.

This is a great discussion, it's like comparing athletes from different eras as to who is better, but the only thing I see in the older cars is a bit lower mass and that is made up for with the structure and safety hardware required in the modern era.

Seriously, I would like to hear what in old cars a modern Z28 would need to do/be.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the old cars. They just don't hold a candle to todays car other than the mystique that's great to talk about.
I was not clear in my post and, up front, I agree with you that the cars of the past, while special, are not the match for modern ones.

What I was addressing with the weight had to do with my sense that the original Z/28 was a great road course car and for that to be true today, we have to fight the weight monster. It is the reason I went with a Shelby GT (the one he builds at his plant in Las Vegas) rather than a GT500. Too much front end weight with the 5.4 motor.

Today's cars make more horse power in factory trim than we could have ever imagined in the 60's. The SS makes plenty I agree.

In my perfect world, there would be a Z/28 that was small block powered, supercharged, and weighed 3,250 pounds. Maybe that is my fantasy world, huh?

Jim
__________________
2008 Shelby GT/SC Mustang, Vista Blue with Silver Stripes, 5-Speed, Coupe, Center gauge cluster, Kenne Bell supercharger, Front and rear brake ducts, AP Racing brakes (6-piston front, 4-piston rear), Fays2 Watts Link, Metco upper and lower control arms, BBR 3.5" aluminum drive shaft, BMR front drive shaft safety loop; Autopower four point roll bar, Autopower five point racing harnesses (both sides), and Camber/caster plates. Dyno results: 453 rear wheel torque, 447 rear wheel horse power @ 67 degrees F, 75% humidity @ sea level.
clark17357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 01:28 PM   #10
Vega
 
Vega's Avatar
 
Drives: 91' Camaro RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 589
Send a message via Yahoo to Vega
This is actually a VERY big topic right now, i think the Camaro's biggest obstacle is the same as the Challenger's except GM has overcome it better, that would be having a 2-door car on a 4-door platform, you're just wasting weight in that scenario. As far as the engine goes expect an extra 150-200 pounds if its supercharged, another reason im not a big fan of supercharging the Z/28, id rather see a cammed LS7 putting near 600hp with less weight and a meaner roar If people want a good comparison of what the Z/28 would be like supercharged then look at the GT vs the GT500, the GT is like 3500lbs while the GT500 is around 3850lbs? Hopefully GM will see this as a problem and take measures to overcome it, im hoping for lots of parts swapped for lighter parts, lots of emphasis on weight savings in the new Z, otherwise you might as well just supercharge your SS right?
Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 01:44 PM   #11
Super83Z
 
Super83Z's Avatar
 
Drives: 1999 Z28 1983 Z28
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: City of Champions,MA
Posts: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
This is actually a VERY big topic right now, i think the Camaro's biggest obstacle is the same as the Challenger's except GM has overcome it better, that would be having a 2-door car on a 4-door platform, you're just wasting weight in that scenario. As far as the engine goes expect an extra 150-200 pounds if its supercharged, another reason im not a big fan of supercharging the Z/28, id rather see a cammed LS7 putting near 600hp with less weight and a meaner roar If people want a good comparison of what the Z/28 would be like supercharged then look at the GT vs the GT500, the GT is like 3500lbs while the GT500 is around 3850lbs? Hopefully GM will see this as a problem and take measures to overcome it, im hoping for lots of parts swapped for lighter parts, lots of emphasis on weight savings in the new Z, otherwise you might as well just supercharge your SS right?
The LS7 is done. GM isn't going to be putting it anything else.
__________________
Current cars:
1983 Z28
1999 Z28
201x Z28?
Super83Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 01:47 PM   #12
Vega
 
Vega's Avatar
 
Drives: 91' Camaro RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 589
Send a message via Yahoo to Vega
Yeah yeah ive had to hear that everywhere i go, LOL

i still believe if the demand was good enough GM would put the effort into bringing it into a new generation for the Z/28, i just preffer it because its lighter than either the LSA or LS9, and with a simple cam swap can put out 580+ horsepower (as seen in the LS7 SEMA Camaro). Other than that im just a fan of N/A engines, haha, that parts more personal based than factual based
Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 03:42 PM   #13
cobra 23
 
Drives: 03 cobra
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: los angeles
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstockcam View Post
I'll opt out of the intercooler and heat exchanger if mine has a supercharger...

I was told the workbench for ordering will open in may 2010 by the fleet sales at the dealership I use, I'll be there for a Z28 first, vert second choice. Either way I'm getting a top of the line, loaded and hopefully under 10k VIN of every year in this generation.
why? those things allow more boost. without an intercoler and heat exchanger 6lbs is prob max. not to mention compression will have to be lowered. then itll have less hp than a gt500. but still more weight?
cobra 23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 04:42 PM   #14
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
The CTS-V weighs about 4200 lbs. May I ask if anybody would not buy one of those (assuming you had 60 grand to spend) just because it was heavy?

Motortrend seems confident that an LSA-equipped Camaro will come in some 200-300 lbs less than that. We shall see....

Having said that...weight is 90% perception, imo. Look at some of the highest-regarded "supercars", and only a few of them would be considered feather weights, and nearly all of them will cost your first-born AND $100,000 dollars. With the right suspension, and adequate power, you can overcome the weight imposed by safety standards, and structural rigidity.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 05:27 PM   #15
clark17357
 
clark17357's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Shelby GT/SC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Having said that...weight is 90% perception, imo.
Dragon,

Weight is a reality when you are navigating a road course. In May, we were at Willow Springs and had all kinds of cars out there, including four old, but seriously well built, Cameros. There was also a Hemi powered Charger. The Charger could not make the same speed in the turns because of one thing, too much weight and, worse still, too much weight on the front wheels.

I agree with you that weight does not matter all that much for boulevard cruising. I remember the first Porsche that kicked my butt in the twisties and, when we got back to the pits, he said, "Heck, anybody can go fast in a straight line. The test is in the turns."

Like most things, it depends on what you are looking to do with the car. Plenty of options for everyone, for sure.

Jim
__________________
2008 Shelby GT/SC Mustang, Vista Blue with Silver Stripes, 5-Speed, Coupe, Center gauge cluster, Kenne Bell supercharger, Front and rear brake ducts, AP Racing brakes (6-piston front, 4-piston rear), Fays2 Watts Link, Metco upper and lower control arms, BBR 3.5" aluminum drive shaft, BMR front drive shaft safety loop; Autopower four point roll bar, Autopower five point racing harnesses (both sides), and Camber/caster plates. Dyno results: 453 rear wheel torque, 447 rear wheel horse power @ 67 degrees F, 75% humidity @ sea level.
clark17357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 06:15 PM   #16
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 ATS 2.0T & '14 Chevrolet SS
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
This is actually a VERY big topic right now, i think the Camaro's biggest obstacle is the same as the Challenger's except GM has overcome it better, that would be having a 2-door car on a 4-door platform, you're just wasting weight in that scenario. As far as the engine goes expect an extra 150-200 pounds if its supercharged, another reason im not a big fan of supercharging the Z/28, id rather see a cammed LS7 putting near 600hp with less weight and a meaner roar If people want a good comparison of what the Z/28 would be like supercharged then look at the GT vs the GT500, the GT is like 3500lbs while the GT500 is around 3850lbs? Hopefully GM will see this as a problem and take measures to overcome it, im hoping for lots of parts swapped for lighter parts, lots of emphasis on weight savings in the new Z, otherwise you might as well just supercharge your SS right?
I've stated earlier I believe the LS7 is pretty much maxed out. GM will not sacrifice reilability or durability to get 600 hp and I believe emssions would be a HUGE hurdle on top of that.

That being said, an LS7 powered Camaro would be quite nice IMO.

And to get mass out you are either paying for premium materials, i.e. aluminum and Carbon Fiber or you are taking parts off the car.

Ball park, to save 200 pounds you be paying probably $5,000 dollars or more.

And I know this debate will go on over time, but for me a Z would need to include everything from the SS. I don't want a radio/ac/rear seat delete. But there are those out there that want that.

My perpsective on the Camaro is it is a unique animal to the Corvette. What some are asking for here is a Camaro that is as fast and handles as well as a Z06...............NOT...................Gonna..... ................Happen. If and when a Z28 appears it will be verrrrrrry special. But if you want Z06 performance, you will still have to buy a Z06.
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley Link to Every Camaro photo I've taken in Hi-Resolution
Number 3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 06:26 PM   #17
2SSRS@Gen5diy
Salt & Pepper 2014 Z/28

 
2SSRS@Gen5diy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS IOM ,2014 Z/28, 66 Nova
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: By the lake in AZ
Posts: 11,674
Or we can drop a LSX454 with 620+hp.
__________________
2SSRS@Gen5diy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 06:32 PM   #18
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
With the right suspension, and adequate power, you can overcome the weight imposed by safety standards, and structural rigidity.

We are already seeing what a good suspension setup can do...
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 07:49 PM   #19
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17357 View Post
Dragon,

Weight is a reality when you are navigating a road course. In May, we were at Willow Springs and had all kinds of cars out there, including four old, but seriously well built, Cameros. There was also a Hemi powered Charger. The Charger could not make the same speed in the turns because of one thing, too much weight and, worse still, too much weight on the front wheels.Jim
Were all those cars stock?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
And I know this debate will go on over time, but for me a Z would need to include everything from the SS. I don't want a radio/ac/rear seat delete. But there are those out there that want that.

My perpsective on the Camaro is it is a unique animal to the Corvette. What some are asking for here is a Camaro that is as fast and handles as well as a Z06...............NOT...................Gonna..... ................Happen. If and when a Z28 appears it will be verrrrrrry special. But if you want Z06 performance, you will still have to buy a Z06.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shnomac77 View Post
We are already seeing what a good suspension setup can do...
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 07:54 PM   #20
clark17357
 
clark17357's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Shelby GT/SC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Were all those cars stock?
I think the Charger was. I know the Cameros were not. There were some stock GT500s out there as well and they behaved a lot like the Charger. Most folks have done at least a little work on their cars before bringing them to Willow Springs. Most have at least replaced the control arms to stiffen things up a bit.

Jim
__________________
2008 Shelby GT/SC Mustang, Vista Blue with Silver Stripes, 5-Speed, Coupe, Center gauge cluster, Kenne Bell supercharger, Front and rear brake ducts, AP Racing brakes (6-piston front, 4-piston rear), Fays2 Watts Link, Metco upper and lower control arms, BBR 3.5" aluminum drive shaft, BMR front drive shaft safety loop; Autopower four point roll bar, Autopower five point racing harnesses (both sides), and Camber/caster plates. Dyno results: 453 rear wheel torque, 447 rear wheel horse power @ 67 degrees F, 75% humidity @ sea level.
clark17357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 08:10 PM   #21
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17357 View Post
I think the Charger was. I know the Cameros were not. There were some stock GT500s out there as well and they behaved a lot like the Charger. Most folks have done at least a little work on their cars before bringing them to Willow Springs. Most have at least replaced the control arms to stiffen things up a bit.

Jim
I only asked because the Charger is....well, "less than impressive" comes to mind. I know the Pedders people are kicking a$$ with their suspension systems on so-called "fat" cars, like the G8. And that was what I was referring to originally -- weight is never good...But you can beat it without removing it.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 08:18 PM   #22
clark17357
 
clark17357's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Shelby GT/SC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
weight is never good...But you can beat it without removing it.
To a point but, in the end, all other things being equal, the lower weight car will prevail. Of course, all other things are never equal, are they?

Jim
__________________
2008 Shelby GT/SC Mustang, Vista Blue with Silver Stripes, 5-Speed, Coupe, Center gauge cluster, Kenne Bell supercharger, Front and rear brake ducts, AP Racing brakes (6-piston front, 4-piston rear), Fays2 Watts Link, Metco upper and lower control arms, BBR 3.5" aluminum drive shaft, BMR front drive shaft safety loop; Autopower four point roll bar, Autopower five point racing harnesses (both sides), and Camber/caster plates. Dyno results: 453 rear wheel torque, 447 rear wheel horse power @ 67 degrees F, 75% humidity @ sea level.
clark17357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 08:26 PM   #23
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
-- weight is never good...But you can beat it without removing it.

I cant wait to see what the Pedder's guys do in October They feel they have the best handling Camaro out there!


But when in doubt

"There's no replacement for displacement"
Mark Donohue
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 08:29 PM   #24
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17357 View Post
To a point but, in the end, all other things being equal, the lower weight car will prevail. Of course, all other things are never equal, are they?

Jim
I think we've found some common ground.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 10:11 PM   #25
Vega
 
Vega's Avatar
 
Drives: 91' Camaro RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 589
Send a message via Yahoo to Vega
I dont think we're really looking for a car that matches the Z06, like i said once before the Z/28 wont cut into the Z06 as much as people think cause people looking for Corvettes will still buy Vettes and people looking for Camaros will still buy Camaros, we're just looking for a Camaro that can excel as a track/road car, have lots of get-up but incredibly handling prowess, more of a touring car really, and we all just want to see the best for the Z/28...the Z06 will still most likely outperform the Z/28, although we've seen the Vette beat out by GM pony cars before, but still i think the track will still stay in favor of the Z06...i just really think both cars will be a completely different driving experience, ironicly its best to compare this situation to the same situation in 1969, the Z/28 was a MONSTER race car but the Corvette appealed to different aspects and outshined the Camaro in those aspects

I think people need to remember that these are two VERY different cars with very different fundamentals that appeal to very different groups of people...its like BMW, they have 2-seat cars and coupes and sedans and they're all big on performance but they dont really cut into each other because they're all looking to accomplish different goals in the long run and people still buy whatever suits them the best and whatever accomplishes the goals their looking for

Long story short, stop sweatin' the Vette, LOL, have faith young grasshoppas ^_^
Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does the v6 have enough power? cstproductions Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 305 08-29-2012 09:27 PM
Think about this and the Z28 5th gen 13F20 Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 41 09-04-2010 12:59 AM
z28 question Ben Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 2 08-02-2009 09:01 AM
Bob Lutz interview radz28 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 113 08-28-2008 01:30 PM
Gotta question bout my z28 lm1power Off-topic Discussions 1 09-15-2006 02:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.