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Old 01-14-2012, 10:23 PM   #251
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Certified truck scales have to be accurate but I'm not sure what the margin for error is on those. The difference you noticed is less than 1%.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:15 AM   #252
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Here's a clip of a few laps at Firebird Raceway west track in Chandler, Arizona at the C5Fest 2 in April of last year. The lead orange car in front has 700 rwhp, I had 405 rwhp. He clearly had the advantage on the straights but I had a weight advantage (by several hundred pounds) and a braking and handling advantage. I don't know what the 2nd car (black with orange stripes) had but I think he was supercharged too. I got faster as I got familiar with the track and was able to use the braking and handling advantage I had to good effect. After only a few laps we'd caught the back of the pack.

I put a heavy audio filter on the clip to reduce the wind noise which was considerable. I used a GoPro cam that was attached to the top of the windshield. Lots of fun.

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Old 01-22-2012, 11:27 AM   #253
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Car looks great out there on the track Doc! This is old, but I forgot to ask way back when I first started reading this thread. On the first page when you cleaned your car after telling dealership to not touch the car. Did you just go straight to a claybar? Or did you give a nice little wash then a claybar?
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:10 PM   #254
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Car looks great out there on the track Doc! This is old, but I forgot to ask way back when I first started reading this thread. On the first page when you cleaned your car after telling dealership to not touch the car. Did you just go straight to a claybar? Or did you give a nice little wash then a claybar?
I did a hand wash using long straight motions; no circular motions which is what causes swirl marks in the paint. Then I did clay bar with the same technique, no circular motions. Wash and rinse again, then wax.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #255
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I did a hand wash using long straight motions; no circular motions which is what causes swirl marks in the paint. Then I did clay bar with the same technique, no circular motions. Wash and rinse again, then wax.
Thanks for the info! Ever find out where the 36lbs went on your Blue Angel?
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:51 PM   #256
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Thanks for the info! Ever find out where the 36lbs went on your Blue Angel?
You're welcome. I remembered that I'd switched out the old temporary aluminum driveshaft that DSS had sent me with their new carbon fiber driveshaft they'd redesigned but the weight difference there was only a few pounds. Maybe the temperature difference of then and now affected the density of the fuel load but even still that may affect a 5 lb or so difference at best. Giving a generous allowance for any factor I can think of I'm still unable to account for about 30 lbs of weight which is a lot. I have no idea at this point.

I'm going to be making some changes. I have the Pfadt engine mounts and while they weren't a problem before, now with the new cam there's too much vibration in the car. It also got a lot louder to the point where I set off the car alarm of a car nearby when I started it. That may be great on the track but for the street it's too much. I don't need any neighbors complaining so I'm looking into changing the mufflers to MagnaFlow. Got a local shop here that does good work that will work with me to get the sound level down to a reasonable level. I'm also going to have to spend the money to step the cam down a notch or two so the car is more enjoyable to drive at regular street speeds. Right now it just isn't. I'll be giving up a few hp at the top end but that's a trade-off I'll have to make in order to make it better for normal street driving. Some of these things there's just no way to know until you do it but that's the way it goes.

Right now the car is right on the edge of being nearly perfect to drive and with these changes I think I'll be there.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:08 PM   #257
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Giving a generous allowance for any factor I can think of I'm still unable to account for about 30 lbs of weight which is a lot. I have no idea at this point.
Did You fill up the tires with helium?

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I'm going to be making some changes. I have the Pfadt engine mounts and while they weren't a problem before, now with the new cam there's too much vibration in the car. It also got a lot louder to the point where I set off the car alarm of a car nearby when I started it. That may be great on the track but for the street it's too much. I don't need any neighbors complaining so I'm looking into changing the mufflers to MagnaFlow. Got a local shop here that does good work that will work with me to get the sound level down to a reasonable level. I'm also going to have to spend the money to step the cam down a notch or two so the car is more enjoyable to drive at regular street speeds. Right now it just isn't. I'll be giving up a few hp at the top end but that's a trade-off I'll have to make in order to make it better for normal street driving. Some of these things there's just no way to know until you do it but that's the way it goes.

Right now the car is right on the edge of being nearly perfect to drive and with these changes I think I'll be there.
That sounds awesome! Bet you were proud of your Angel at the same time disappointed it's too loud and not as streetable Can't wait to see what you do with it next Doc! BTW hows the drone with that zoomer's exhaust?
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:25 PM   #258
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Did You fill up the tires with helium?

That sounds awesome! Bet you were proud of your Angel at the same time disappointed it's too loud and not as streetable Can't wait to see what you do with it next Doc! BTW hows the drone with that zoomer's exhaust?
Lol but not a bad idea if it would work.

With the addition of the LT headers, high-flow cats and cam the drone had gotten noticeably worse. I just took the car in and had the Zoomer's replaced with Magnaflows and what a difference. It must have reduced the sound level by about 30%. The car still sounds great when you jump on it but now the sound level inside when cruising is much much better. You can actually have a conversation and most of the resonance drone is gone. After doing some research I think I've found a way to get rid of the rest of the resonance which I'll be experimenting with soon.

Now I'm doing some more research into cams to figure out how much to step down what I have so the shaking and vibration goes away (mostly) but still have good torque and power. The cam I have, the Comp Cam XR275HR combined with the Pfadt engine mounts just has too much vibration in the car at low speeds. It's okay on the freeway with lots of punch for power but around town on the street it's too much. It's always a challenge to guess the right combination of mods to get what you want without messing up something else. Sometimes you guess wrong but that's the way it goes. Gotta pay to play.

Oh and I have to admit... it WAS funny when the car alarm went off. It was like my car had scared the other one so badly it was freaking out lol.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:05 PM   #259
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with my LT's & cutouts open, my car sets off the alarm on my neighbor's 2000 SS Camaro

stock cam.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:31 PM   #260
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Hello Doc, like what you have done to the Camaro. My name is also Mark Christopher but no relation to the dealer.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:42 PM   #261
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You're welcome. I remembered that I'd switched out the old temporary aluminum driveshaft that DSS had sent me with their new carbon fiber driveshaft they'd redesigned but the weight difference there was only a few pounds. Maybe the temperature difference of then and now affected the density of the fuel load but even still that may affect a 5 lb or so difference at best. Giving a generous allowance for any factor I can think of I'm still unable to account for about 30 lbs of weight which is a lot. I have no idea at this point.

I'm going to be making some changes. I have the Pfadt engine mounts and while they weren't a problem before, now with the new cam there's too much vibration in the car. It also got a lot louder to the point where I set off the car alarm of a car nearby when I started it. That may be great on the track but for the street it's too much. I don't need any neighbors complaining so I'm looking into changing the mufflers to MagnaFlow. Got a local shop here that does good work that will work with me to get the sound level down to a reasonable level. I'm also going to have to spend the money to step the cam down a notch or two so the car is more enjoyable to drive at regular street speeds. Right now it just isn't. I'll be giving up a few hp at the top end but that's a trade-off I'll have to make in order to make it better for normal street driving. Some of these things there's just no way to know until you do it but that's the way it goes.

Right now the car is right on the edge of being nearly perfect to drive and with these changes I think I'll be there.
With the PFADT engine mounts is it a vibration or more of a rocking back forth, like you have a bigger cam than you really do. Just curious as I was thinking about getting them.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:03 PM   #262
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With the PFADT engine mounts is it a vibration or more of a rocking back forth, like you have a bigger cam than you really do. Just curious as I was thinking about getting them.
It does both; at times rocking, and then it will suddenly stop rocking and turn to a strong buzzing vibration that causes things in the dash to rattle. If you have the stock engine mounts it might not be such an issue, but since I don't I'm going to have to get a milder cam to resolve it. The sound level now is just about perfect with the new Magnaflows.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:25 AM   #263
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It does both; at times rocking, and then it will suddenly stop rocking and turn to a strong buzzing vibration that causes things in the dash to rattle. If you have the stock engine mounts it might not be such an issue, but since I don't I'm going to have to get a milder cam to resolve it. The sound level now is just about perfect with the new Magnaflows.
Who did the tuning and can you change it?

On mine, I found that the timing table in the low RPM, low load needed adjusting to stop the rocking and surging. Real easy to do actually - just smooth the timing tables in that range to get rid of any big jumps in advance between cells.

E.g. your car maybe running low load, low revs and in one cell it's commanding 35* timing and in the adjacent cell it's commanding 18*. In some conditions, it may be swapping between those two cells several times a second, thus the rocking.

I'd hate to see you swap for a milder cam and fnd the problem still there. I'd get some more opinions before doing so.

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Old 02-01-2012, 09:02 AM   #264
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Who did the tuning and can you change it?

On mine, I found that the timing table in the low RPM, low load needed adjusting to stop the rocking and surging. Real easy to do actually - just smooth the timing tables in that range to get rid of any big jumps in advance between cells.

E.g. your car maybe running low load, low revs and in one cell it's commanding 35* timing and in the adjacent cell it's commanding 18*. In some conditions, it may be swapping between those two cells several times a second, thus the rocking.

I'd hate to see you swap for a milder cam and fnd the problem still there. I'd get some more opinions before doing so.

Padre
Thanks for this info Padre! I'll forward it to my tuner. Computer-tuning cars is one area I know nothing about.
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:28 PM   #265
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Follow-up to Padre's excellent info; (thank you SIR!) I just got back from spending an hour with my tuner in the car making adjustments and now the car idles smoothly. There was just one last thing it does which is as you coast along in 2nd gear at around 15 mph the car starts to jerk forward/backward with increasing intensity to the point where I have to push the clutch in to make it stop. He datalogged it and said he's going to study the logs to figure out what changes need to be made.

The low speed drivability is greatly improved right now and the rocking it was doing at idle is gone. If he can dial out that bucking this car will be golden.
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:49 PM   #266
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Camaro5 totally rocks, doesn't it?!

Glad to be of service.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:29 AM   #267
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If you have, how much of an increase have you seen in mpg? I'm sure stop and go traffic doesn't help but then again rpms are always low
Before I did the cam and clutch swap, I was getting about 27.6 mpg on the freeway in 6th gear at 70-75 mph. I did a test yesterday on the way back from my tuner's and it held a steady 31.2 mpg in 6th at 70-75 so for freeway cruising anyways there's a definite improvement. Around town it's hard to say cause it's so much fun to feel the "go" lol.

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Hello Doc, like what you have done to the Camaro. My name is also Mark Christopher but no relation to the dealer.
Thank you.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:34 AM   #268
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Camaro5 totally rocks, doesn't it?!

Glad to be of service.

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That it does; when it's great it's great.

I've been following your thread; looks like you're going off the deep-end hehehe. I have this image in my head of you going off the edge of the cliff called "modding" with a trail of $100's fluttering in the air behind you lol. Are you building a strictly dedicated 1/4 miler?
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:38 AM   #269
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That it does; when it's great it's great.

I've been following your thread; looks like you're going off the deep-end hehehe. I have this image in my head of you going off the edge of the cliff called "modding" with a trail of $100's fluttering in the air behind you lol. Are you building a strictly dedicated 1/4 miler?
Hehe. I'm building a daily driven 10-second car.

And I'm still >$5k under the price of a ZL1. Can't wait to humiliate a few of them at the track this Spring.

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Old 02-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #270
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Before I did the cam and clutch swap, I was getting about 27.6 mpg on the freeway in 6th gear at 70-75 mph. I did a test yesterday on the way back from my tuner's and it held a steady 31.2 mpg in 6th at 70-75 so for freeway cruising anyways there's a definite improvement. Around town it's hard to say cause it's so much fun to feel the "go" lol.
Sweet!!

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Hehe. I'm building a daily driven 10-second car.

And I'm still >$5k under the price of a ZL1. Can't wait to humiliate a few of them at the track this Spring.

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I'd love to see that
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:42 PM   #271
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I'm getting 20 mpg... It's killing me lol

Wonderful thread doc. Plan on using this as I build my own and love the weight loss ideas. I think that's the biggest improvement this car needs. It handles better than my old 5.0 but it's just portly... Lol
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:33 PM   #272
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I'm getting 20 mpg... It's killing me lol

Wonderful thread doc. Plan on using this as I build my own and love the weight loss ideas. I think that's the biggest improvement this car needs. It handles better than my old 5.0 but it's just portly... Lol
Thank you for the kudos. By reducing the right type of weight and improving the suspension bushings the SS is a very respectable performer. I wish GM would take my car with them the next time they go to the Nurburgring; I'd love to see what kind of numbers it would post compared to the ZL1. Even though the ZL1 has 112 more hp and that fantastic magnetic suspension, mine is no slouch in the suspension department and it's over 400 lbs lighter. It would be a very interesting comparison.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:09 AM   #273
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Indeed that would be interesting to see...
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:39 PM   #274
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Doc, I have been lurking here for a long time and have no idea why I never posted here so I just did.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:30 PM   #275
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Doc, I have been lurking here for a long time and have no idea why I never posted here so I just did.
Lol well as you know I'm running your bushings and coilovers so you've been part of this thread indirectly anyways but you're always welcome to post in here anytime.
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