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Old 02-11-2011, 06:12 PM   #101
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so whats next?
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:07 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by 10camaross View Post
so whats next?
Well....after doing quite a bit of research on lighting, I discovered it's nowhere near as standardized as you'd think it would be. There's apparently quite a range of differences in quality and performance not only between manufacturers, but sometimes from bulb to bulb from the same manufacturer.

It seems like with many things, you get what you pay for. The first pair of bulbs I'd bought I got from ebay and were supposed to be 5000k temp bulbs, which (I thought) were a bargain at $40 a pair. Especially since I'd checked around and some places wanted upwards to $300 for a single bulb. As I'd reported previously I thought they looked nice but the dropoff in light compared to stock was quite noticeable and not satisfactory. The bulbs came from China and didn't have any markings on them at all. I'm now convinced they were either 6000k bulbs, or maybe even 8000k bulbs.

From hours of research it seems the Chinese make almost all light bulbs now, but they are very inconsistent in quality. The best brands appear to be GE and Philips. The Japanese and German technology, especially the OE bulbs have the best and most reliable performance and consistency from bulb to bulb.

I've since ordered (and received) another pair of Japanese bulbs which cost $150 and I made note that these came with full markings on them. They are 5100k temp bulbs. I installed the passenger's side bulb and couldn't believe the difference. Compared to the cheap Chinese bulb, the Japanese bulb put out almost twice the light and had a wide, consistent beam of beautiful white light. The light coming from the driver's side from the cheap Chinese bulb was seriously blue by comparison; about half the brightness and the beam pattern on the wall was uneven and nowhere near the quality of the Japanese bulb. I replaced the driver's side bulb and now it's gorgeous; the perfect look and color. I don't think I'll need to look into a 55w solution; these new bulbs put out plenty of light.

So the lesson learned here is stick with a quality brand even though they may be more expensive. I got MTEC bulbs, but most of what I read had very high praise for Philips too.

As for what's next, I'm on the edge of getting the driveshaft (I hope; need to ask if it's shipped yet) followed by headers and Pfadt engine mounts. I've got some additional Pedder's bushings sitting here that need to be installed, and MTI plug wires for when the headers get done. Then it's paint.

It's going to be tight but I believe I can get everything done in time for C5fest 2 in April, providing the vendors I'm waiting on don't delay anymore.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:40 AM   #103
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Finally got my carbon fiber driveshaft I've been wanting and trying to get for over a year.

Frank at Driveshaftshop built it and it's a work of art. Shame it has to be hidden where it can't be seen. When I received it I weighed it with all the bolts and hardware on it and it weighed 21 lbs. 5.6 oz. The stock factory driveshaft which is a 2-piece aluminum shaft weighs 24 lbs. 13.4 oz. (this is with all the hardware and bolts). The 1-piece cf shaft is about 3.5 lbs lighter.

There is a huge difference in the quality and strength of the DSS shaft versus stock. You can see the difference in the joints on both ends as well as the overall finish.

I had my car dynoed before the install and best pull out of 3 was 375.15 hp with 373.52 torque. Last year I had a dyno at this same facility which is GTR Performance in Rancho Cucamonga, California and it dynoed at 370 hp with 375 torque. Ricardo there at GTR did a great job doing the dynos and install. The only change between then and now engine-wise was I got the VMAX cnc ported throttle body which it seems added about 5 hp, although when looking at the curves it had changed the torque curve to more torque earlier which is mostly what I felt after I had installed it.

After the CF Driveshaft was installed we dynoed it again and the results were good. Best pull out of 3 was 383.3 hp with 382.89 torque. This was an increase of 8 hp and 9 torque. The biggest surprise was the torque curve; you can see in the graph I've attached how much earlier it increases which I mostly attribute to the improved efficiency of the 1-piece shaft compared to the 2-piece factory shaft.

Driving impressions: I noticed the improved smoothness of the acceleration right away; I can definitely feel the improved torque but mostly just how smooth this thing now pulls all the way up the revs. The DSS shaft is dead smooth; in fact I can put my hand on the shift lever and feel virtually no vibration at all when driving which is quite an improvement over the stock shaft.

Summary: In summary I think the fact that it's 1-piece makes more of a difference than being 3.5 lbs lighter although I know that has to have some effect; probably improves response time I'm guessing. It's hard to say since I haven't tried the aluminum shaft he makes but my guess is unless you're doing a full or mostly race build, the extra expense of the CF shaft probably isn't necessary. I'd definitely recommend the 1-piece aluminum shaft though because the difference in smoothness and pull compared to stock when you accelerate is very very nice. These stronger joints will also hold up under the higher loads of forced induction, nitrous, etc.

Now for some pics...

Here's a shot of both shafts so you can see the difference between the Driveshaftshop 1-piece and the factory 2-piece:
Name:  IMG_0348.jpg
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Here's a shot of the DSS shaft on the weight scale:
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Here's a shot of the factory shaft on the weight scale:
Name:  IMG_0362.JPG
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Here's a shot of the differences between the DSS joint and factory joint on the trans end:
Name:  IMG_0349.JPG
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Here's a shot of the differences between the DSS joint and factory joint on the differential end:
Name:  IMG_0350.JPG
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And here's the dyno sheet showing the baseline run in blue before the install, and the results in red after the install:
Name:  SSdyno.jpg
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Size:  186.6 KB

All in all I'm very pleased with the results and I'm looking forward to adding some power now. Any of you guys that have added headers, superchargers, etc. by all means get yourself one of these 1-piece shafts from Driveshaftshops and ask for Frank; he's a vendor and posts on this forum. If you're in the Inland Empire area of southern California then Ricardo at GTR can get the job done for you if you want a dyno and install.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:19 AM   #104
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Thats AWESOME DOC!!! Been waiting to see what you came up with. I'm definitely going to have to go the CF route

Just hearing from you the difference in smoothness makes me want to buy it just for that!!! The extra power and strength are just great bonuses!!!!!!
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:19 AM   #105
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I have the Hurst short-throw shifter which transmits more mechanical noise from the trans/drivetrain into the car and you can definitely feel it when you hold the shift lever. In fact if you rested your hand on the knob which was one of the things I always liked to do, it made so much noise it was irritating. The only way to avoid that noise was to not rest your hand on the shift knob. Now however it's so smooth and quiet even with my hand on the knob I don't hear anything different; smooth as silk.

You can see the difference especially at 5.5k rpms on the dyno sheet where it gains 10 hp and 15 torque over the stock shaft which you can certainly feel when accelerating. The bobble, wavy lines are visibly smoothed out on the after-install run and boy can I feel it. With each improvement the car just keeps getting better and better, and more and more responsive. Can't wait to see how she does at Firebird in April!
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:06 PM   #106
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Doc, I also dont like the stock color of the HID as I really want a whiter light as well. Could you give us more specifics as to exactly what I need to look for to order the same bulbs you got, specifically where you got them and what numbers I need to order to make sure they are the correct bulbs. Thanks.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:37 PM   #107
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Hey Doc. Awesome journal! I love your emphasis on efficiency and weight reduction with your car. I will definitely be incorporating some of your mods into my car.

As far as the driveshaft is concerned, were you a little disappointed with the weight reduction? I know 3 pounds shed of rotational mass is a huge benefit, but I would have expected more, especially with DSS advertising the CF shaft weighing 15.5 lbs on their website. Where do you think the added weight came from? I'm assuming that the claimed website weight is without a lot of the hardware.

Anyway, keep up the good work!
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:59 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by jrpxxii View Post
Doc, I also dont like the stock color of the HID as I really want a whiter light as well. Could you give us more specifics as to exactly what I need to look for to order the same bulbs you got, specifically where you got them and what numbers I need to order to make sure they are the correct bulbs. Thanks.
The bulbs I wound up with were 5100k color temperature 35w D1S bulbs from MTEC which is a Japanese company. I got a pair for $150 from Ebay. 5100k is the temp of the bulbs they put in high-end European cars and some of the upscale cars here like Cadillacs. It has a color like arc-light white which is exactly what I was looking for. Philips doesn't make a 5k bulb; theirs go from 4300k which is OE spec to 6000k which is too blue for my tastes. The MTEC bulbs are just the color I was looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adub4185 View Post
Hey Doc. Awesome journal! I love your emphasis on efficiency and weight reduction with your car. I will definitely be incorporating some of your mods into my car.

As far as the driveshaft is concerned, were you a little disappointed with the weight reduction? I know 3 pounds shed of rotational mass is a huge benefit, but I would have expected more, especially with DSS advertising the CF shaft weighing 15.5 lbs on their website. Where do you think the added weight came from? I'm assuming that the claimed website weight is without a lot of the hardware.

Anyway, keep up the good work!
Well considering how much more substantial the joints are; they clearly look like they can handle power compared to the stock joints which actually have a hard rubber donut instead of the forged aluminum DSS uses, I think the fact it's still lighter is a bonus. Obviously I would have liked it to be even lighter but it's rather surprising the factory one is so light to begin with. The guy doing the install was surprised at how light it was. He said the stock driveshaft on Mustangs is about 40 lbs so they see a huge benefit from driveshaft upgrades.

The reason why Frank advertises their cf shaft at 15.5 lbs is their competitors advertise theirs without the endjoints as though you were going to just replace the shaft and use the stock joints which I can't imagine anyone wanting to do but it allows them to publish the lowest weight number that way. The DSS shaft shipped with everything on it including all the bolts and hardware and that's how I weighed it; exactly as it came out of the box. When we pulled the stock shaft I put the bolts in the joints and weighed it exactly the same way the DSS shaft was so the comparison would be accurate and fair.

To the designer's at Chevy's credit they did a pretty good job on the weight of the driveshaft but at the expense of some efficiency. It's adequate for the stock power but if you increase power you'll definitely want to look into beefing up the driveshaft and in particular, the joints. The DSS shaft does both very very well.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:13 PM   #109
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Nice build Doc. I love your approach to power building (by losing weight). Can't wait to see how many supercharged people you embarass looking down on your car at the fest. =)
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:16 PM   #110
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Doc -

As usual you post up great research and findings you have come up with for the Camaro. Can't wait to see Blue Angel in person at C5Fest2.

The weight savings program and the documentation you have provided here are awesome ! Thanks.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:00 PM   #111
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Old 02-24-2011, 01:05 AM   #112
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Amazing. I love your modifications. Your torque numbers are fantastic. I bet this camaro will really put that power down too. I bet the 1/4 mile times will be impressive.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:12 PM   #113
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Very Nice!

Thanks for the feedback
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:57 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
Finally got my carbon fiber driveshaft I've been wanting and trying to get for over a year.

Frank at Driveshaftshop built it and it's a work of art. Shame it has to be hidden where it can't be seen. When I received it I weighed it with all the bolts and hardware on it and it weighed 21 lbs. 5.6 oz. The stock factory driveshaft which is a 2-piece aluminum shaft weighs 24 lbs. 13.4 oz. (this is with all the hardware and bolts). The 1-piece cf shaft is about 3.5 lbs lighter.

There is a huge difference in the quality and strength of the DSS shaft versus stock. You can see the difference in the joints on both ends as well as the overall finish.

I had my car dynoed before the install and best pull out of 3 was 375.15 hp with 373.52 torque. Last year I had a dyno at this same facility which is GTR Performance in Rancho Cucamonga, California and it dynoed at 370 hp with 375 torque. Ricardo there at GTR did a great job doing the dynos and install. The only change between then and now engine-wise was I got the VMAX cnc ported throttle body which it seems added about 5 hp, although when looking at the curves it had changed the torque curve to more torque earlier which is mostly what I felt after I had installed it.

After the CF Driveshaft was installed we dynoed it again and the results were good. Best pull out of 3 was 383.3 hp with 382.89 torque. This was an increase of 8 hp and 9 torque. The biggest surprise was the torque curve; you can see in the graph I've attached how much earlier it increases which I mostly attribute to the improved efficiency of the 1-piece shaft compared to the 2-piece factory shaft.

Driving impressions: I noticed the improved smoothness of the acceleration right away; I can definitely feel the improved torque but mostly just how smooth this thing now pulls all the way up the revs. The DSS shaft is dead smooth; in fact I can put my hand on the shift lever and feel virtually no vibration at all when driving which is quite an improvement over the stock shaft.

Summary: In summary I think the fact that it's 1-piece makes more of a difference than being 3.5 lbs lighter although I know that has to have some effect; probably improves response time I'm guessing. It's hard to say since I haven't tried the aluminum shaft he makes but my guess is unless you're doing a full or mostly race build, the extra expense of the CF shaft probably isn't necessary. I'd definitely recommend the 1-piece aluminum shaft though because the difference in smoothness and pull compared to stock when you accelerate is very very nice. These stronger joints will also hold up under the higher loads of forced induction, nitrous, etc.

Now for some pics...

Here's a shot of both shafts so you can see the difference between the Driveshaftshop 1-piece and the factory 2-piece:
Attachment 209522

Here's a shot of the DSS shaft on the weight scale:
Attachment 209523

Here's a shot of the factory shaft on the weight scale:
Attachment 209524

Here's a shot of the differences between the DSS joint and factory joint on the trans end:
Attachment 209525

Here's a shot of the differences between the DSS joint and factory joint on the differential end:
Attachment 209526

And here's the dyno sheet showing the baseline run in blue before the install, and the results in red after the install:
Attachment 209527

All in all I'm very pleased with the results and I'm looking forward to adding some power now. Any of you guys that have added headers, superchargers, etc. by all means get yourself one of these 1-piece shafts from Driveshaftshops and ask for Frank; he's a vendor and posts on this forum. If you're in the Inland Empire area of southern California then Ricardo at GTR can get the job done for you if you want a dyno and install.

Thanks for a great post. Between this and talking with Frank at DSS, made my decision to get the CF shaft much easier.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:44 PM   #115
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Thanks for a great post. Between this and talking with Frank at DSS, made my decision to get the CF shaft much easier.
You're welcome. I'm guessing the more power you're pushing through, the more benefit the CF shaft will provide over the stock shaft. You can see the harmonics and inefficiency losses in the wobbly lines on my dyno chart as it climbs up the power band. And that's on a basically stock engine. Although the peak torque increase was only 9 lbs you can see a nice fat increase up to 15 lbs in the 3k-4k rpm range. That's a very usable range.

If you get this please post the dyno results; I'll be very interested to see how much of an improvement it makes when you're really pushing a lot of power through it.
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:14 PM   #116
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You're welcome. I'm guessing the more power you're pushing through, the more benefit the CF shaft will provide over the stock shaft. You can see the harmonics and inefficiency losses in the wobbly lines on my dyno chart as it climbs up the power band. And that's on a basically stock engine. Although the peak torque increase was only 9 lbs you can see a nice fat increase up to 15 lbs in the 3k-4k rpm range. That's a very usable range.

If you get this please post the dyno results; I'll be very interested to see how much of an improvement it makes when you're really pushing a lot of power through it.
I'll see if I can make that happen. Curious to see dyno changes anyway after 3.70 gears and Pfadt solid subframe bushes anyway.

Thanks again!
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:38 AM   #117
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Man that is some serious crud lol, great looking car and build I must say. I'm going to be watching this thread for a while
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:11 PM   #118
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How does the cf drive shaft hold up for daily driving, i heard that a cf shaft is very strong but can break or shatter if something hits it or something to that effect. Any input on this??
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:32 PM   #119
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How does the cf drive shaft hold up for daily driving, i heard that a cf shaft is very strong but can break or shatter if something hits it or something to that effect. Any input on this??
Nothing short of getting hit by a big rig would threaten the integrity of this driveshaft. If that happens the condition of the driveshaft is the least of your problems.

It's tucked up and out of the way and the exhaust pipes below it provide protection too. You'd have to be running brutal amounts of horsepower, in excess of 1000 hp before you'd get close to causing this to break and by that time I suspect you'd have broken gears or joints first already.

For daily driving on the street this shaft is actually overkill but it's great!
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:37 PM   #120
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How does the cf drive shaft hold up for daily driving, i heard that a cf shaft is very strong but can break or shatter if something hits it or something to that effect. Any input on this??
Woah I almost thought you were me for a second and I was like I didn't post that. Anyways sorry for thread jacking and get back to look at the beautiful blue angel
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:56 PM   #121
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Doc, great thread, great write ups and super cool ride. Keep it up
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:39 AM   #122
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Sneak Peek.

Finally getting paint mods done. Here's a sneek peek at some of the pieces...

First is the hood. First pic shows the hood spears sanded and masked, second pic shows it being painted, third pic shows it done.

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Then we have the lower front. First pic shows it sanded and masked, second pic shows it being painted, third pic shows it done.

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Last we have the rear spoiler. First pic shows it sanded and masked, second pic shows it being painted, third pic shows it done.

Name:  Rear Spoiler 1.JPG
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I'm hoping everything will be ready tomorrow so I can pick the car up. Or Wednesday at the latest. Can't wait to see it finished!
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:21 AM   #123
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Very cool Doc.

That is going to look incredible live !!!
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:14 PM   #124
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:47 PM   #125
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i've been following on and off but maybe i missed it somewhere so sorry if asked already, but currently what is your total weight savings? thanks. great build!!
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