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Old 10-02-2009, 04:27 PM   #26
Flynnaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS View Post
Although you are right. If the dealer says nope your warranty is voided, then what are you going to do? You have to pay a lawyer. It's all on you to prove that what happened was not due to the aftermarket part. It's gonna cost you some bucks to take them to court.
Keep your stock CAI, put it on for warrenty work, is that too hard?????
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:28 PM   #27
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hi david @airaid i looked at the site on your post,all it really talks about is warrantys on any product you buy,but nothing about overiding a factory warranty,if it does please tell my dealer and tell them this,and if they agree,i will buy one from airaid!!thanks alot
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by marksono View Post
aftermarket cai will void your warranty!!ask any dealer.and i dont think there is a federal law that overrides any thing,if there is please post it with a government website for all to see.our dealer as well as others we have called said anything other than a GM part,except a filter and cat back exhaust will void your warranty!!
Dealers allege that oiled filters foul Mass Air Flow sensors. Ask them to prove it. Ask them if they can test a MAF? They can't, their service info tells them to install the MAF on a like car and see if it works. They are told this by people who don't want to replace MAF's or don't know how to fix the real underlying problems. I know lots of dealerships who sell and install Airaid kits. One Chevy dealer I was at last week has 10 of these Camaro kits on order.

Here is a re-post of a response I did regarding oiled filters. Check out the K&N link for the independent testing they had done. 256 "fouled" MAF's tested. Check out the results.

Sorry for the rant, but mis-information just pisses me off.

"First. All cotton gauze filters are not the same. Sounds simple but the term "K&N" is like "Kleenex", and gets applied to the category. There are cheaper versions and more modern versions (the basic K&N filter dates back to the early 70"s). Very cheap & offshore versions are easy to identify. Hold them up to a light. If you can see pinpoints of light then dirt will get thru those holes. Any filter is a compromise of Flow vs Filtration. A normally aspirated engine (air pump effect) has a set demand it needs. Lets say 300 cfm. If a filter has a higher airflow rating of 350 cfm, than you are giving up filtration. The motor will pull no more than 300 cfm. If a filter allows less than the 300 cfm, then it would be considered "restrictive" but probably "filters' better. OE's want to make power, long life (100,000 warranty) and keep noise down. They spend lots of engineering money to get an acceptable (in their eyes) balance.

"Wet vs Dry"
The dirt released from the filter comes from cleaning the oil off, which the dust clings to. It's the "release agent". A dry filter is put in a bucket and agitated. You will get the surface dirt out but not the deep dirt. So each washing leaves the filter less efficient that it was new. Think vacuum cleaner filters. It will never be 100% efficient again, a oiled gauze filter is. Again it's Flow vs Filtration. Dry filters have come into vogue due to the great "Oil on Mass AF sensor" debate. Foam filters are synthetic not natural fiber. Oil will not penetrate the foam, it sticks to it. Foam filter manf use a thicker sticky oil to cling, but it WILL shed off. Did we use foam for years on powersports and trucks? Yes, when they were carburated and the motor wasn't affected by ingesting a little oil.

MAF Fouling.
Oiled Mass Air sensors is pretty much an urban myth. Check out the K&N website for the actual scientific testing they had done.
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/MAFTestresults.htm
A lot of dealers make a big deal about this because they've been scared into it by the warranty techs. Keep this in mind. A GM dealership has NO way to test a mass air flow sensor. The book tells them to put the MAF on a same year vehicle to see if it's bad. !!
Can it happen? Sure. From over oiling. If a cheap offshore filter has oil on the inside of the bag wrapping the filter than it's over oiled. Don't use it. The biggest culprit is the owner reoiling the filter after cleaning. Ever read the instructions before doing it? You oil a small area and let it wick thru the filter for 30 min. You DO NOT try to get the cotton all red in 30 seconds
Several manufacturers now list the amount of oil they put on their filters from the factory. It's done by a computerized sprayer. The amount averages 0.6 oz. Very little.

Current manufacturers of filter (vs re-packers) spent a lot of time and engineering to get the correct configuration to achieve the best Flow vs Filtration AND correct MAF air signal. Number of pleats per inch, pleat depth, all play apart in "straightening the air" as well as filtration. This is an area that very few kit builders (vs filter manf) spend any time. It's usually what fits in the space. IMO it's very important to know who's filter a kit has in it. Did they cut corners there?

Regarding the post about diesel filters. Different animal. A turbo diesel requires 10 times the air as a gas motor. Yet some OE's use the same air box as the gas trucks due to cost and room constraints. The issue of replacement filters collapsing in air boxes is due to using old gas filter manufaturing materials. The turbo diesel was a new animal. Some manufacturers now cover the filter in expanded metal screens (chicken wire I call it) to give it rigidity. This can result in a 30% drop in flow. Doesn't make sense. Some manufactures have switched from the aluminum wire that hold the gauze together to stainless steel and put reinforcing bars in the side urethane panels. This is the difference between "good enough & doing it right."

There are lots of hype, myths and legends out there on the errornet. Also some facts. Do your research from multiple sources."
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS View Post
Although you are right. If the dealer says nope your warranty is voided, then what are you going to do? You have to pay a lawyer. It's all on you to prove that what happened was not due to the aftermarket part. It's gonna cost you some bucks to take them to court.
Ask the dealer to put it in writing. If he does then call SEMA and they will intercede of behalf of the manufacturer. 99.9 times out of 100 it stops at "put that in writing".
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS View Post
Although you are right. If the dealer says nope your warranty is voided, then what are you going to do? You have to pay a lawyer. It's all on you to prove that what happened was not due to the aftermarket part. It's gonna cost you some bucks to take them to court.
Hello BackinBlackSS/RS,

It's up to the DEALER to prove that the aftermarket part is the cause of failure. If the DEALER can not prove that the aftermarket part is the direct cause of failure, then they are obligated to cover warranty.

It's not up to the consumer to prove that the part did not cause the failure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marksono View Post
hi david @airaid i looked at the site on your post,all it really talks about is warrantys on any product you buy,but nothing about overiding a factory warranty,if it does please tell my dealer and tell them this,and if they agree,i will buy one from airaid!!thanks alot
Hello marksono,

If the dealer is not familiar with the federal law, then it might be time to find a different dealer who understands the law

Thanks,
David
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:48 PM   #31
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I work at a dealership in service and a cai does not void you warranty...we would have to prove that the cai has done damage to you engine witch is really hard to do..But if you go to a dealership that just want's to get out of warranty just take it off and put you stock back on simple as that!!!

Last edited by WICKEDSS; 10-03-2009 at 08:46 AM. Reason: yup...im one bad dude
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveBlue View Post
Dealers allege that oiled filters foul Mass Air Flow sensors. Ask them to prove it. Ask them if they can test a MAF? They can't, their service info tells them to install the MAF on a like car and see if it works. They are told this by people who don't want to replace MAF's or don't know how to fix the real underlying problems. I know lots of dealerships who sell and install Airaid kits. One Chevy dealer I was at last week has 10 of these Camaro kits on order.

Here is a re-post of a response I did regarding oiled filters. Check out the K&N link for the independent testing they had done. 256 "fouled" MAF's tested. Check out the results.

Sorry for the rant, but mis-information just pisses me off.

"First. All cotton gauze filters are not the same. Sounds simple but the term "K&N" is like "Kleenex", and gets applied to the category. There are cheaper versions and more modern versions (the basic K&N filter dates back to the early 70"s). Very cheap & offshore versions are easy to identify. Hold them up to a light. If you can see pinpoints of light then dirt will get thru those holes. Any filter is a compromise of Flow vs Filtration. A normally aspirated engine (air pump effect) has a set demand it needs. Lets say 300 cfm. If a filter has a higher airflow rating of 350 cfm, than you are giving up filtration. The motor will pull no more than 300 cfm. If a filter allows less than the 300 cfm, then it would be considered "restrictive" but probably "filters' better. OE's want to make power, long life (100,000 warranty) and keep noise down. They spend lots of engineering money to get an acceptable (in their eyes) balance.

"Wet vs Dry"
The dirt released from the filter comes from cleaning the oil off, which the dust clings to. It's the "release agent". A dry filter is put in a bucket and agitated. You will get the surface dirt out but not the deep dirt. So each washing leaves the filter less efficient that it was new. Think vacuum cleaner filters. It will never be 100% efficient again, a oiled gauze filter is. Again it's Flow vs Filtration. Dry filters have come into vogue due to the great "Oil on Mass AF sensor" debate. Foam filters are synthetic not natural fiber. Oil will not penetrate the foam, it sticks to it. Foam filter manf use a thicker sticky oil to cling, but it WILL shed off. Did we use foam for years on powersports and trucks? Yes, when they were carburated and the motor wasn't affected by ingesting a little oil.

MAF Fouling.
Oiled Mass Air sensors is pretty much an urban myth. Check out the K&N website for the actual scientific testing they had done.
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/MAFTestresults.htm
A lot of dealers make a big deal about this because they've been scared into it by the warranty techs. Keep this in mind. A GM dealership has NO way to test a mass air flow sensor. The book tells them to put the MAF on a same year vehicle to see if it's bad. !!
Can it happen? Sure. From over oiling. If a cheap offshore filter has oil on the inside of the bag wrapping the filter than it's over oiled. Don't use it. The biggest culprit is the owner reoiling the filter after cleaning. Ever read the instructions before doing it? You oil a small area and let it wick thru the filter for 30 min. You DO NOT try to get the cotton all red in 30 seconds
Several manufacturers now list the amount of oil they put on their filters from the factory. It's done by a computerized sprayer. The amount averages 0.6 oz. Very little.

Current manufacturers of filter (vs re-packers) spent a lot of time and engineering to get the correct configuration to achieve the best Flow vs Filtration AND correct MAF air signal. Number of pleats per inch, pleat depth, all play apart in "straightening the air" as well as filtration. This is an area that very few kit builders (vs filter manf) spend any time. It's usually what fits in the space. IMO it's very important to know who's filter a kit has in it. Did they cut corners there?

Regarding the post about diesel filters. Different animal. A turbo diesel requires 10 times the air as a gas motor. Yet some OE's use the same air box as the gas trucks due to cost and room constraints. The issue of replacement filters collapsing in air boxes is due to using old gas filter manufaturing materials. The turbo diesel was a new animal. Some manufacturers now cover the filter in expanded metal screens (chicken wire I call it) to give it rigidity. This can result in a 30% drop in flow. Doesn't make sense. Some manufactures have switched from the aluminum wire that hold the gauze together to stainless steel and put reinforcing bars in the side urethane panels. This is the difference between "good enough & doing it right."

There are lots of hype, myths and legends out there on the errornet. Also some facts. Do your research from multiple sources."
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Excellent Post. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveBlue View Post
Ask the dealer to put it in writing. If he does then call SEMA and they will intercede of behalf of the manufacturer. 99.9 times out of 100 it stops at "put that in writing".
Again, Thank you! Very Well Said.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:29 PM   #33
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The only thing your giving up is the warranty on your factory air system..I wouldnt sweat to much about a cai.... But if you roll through the dealership with a fogger system on your car and tire all over the back of you car... then you might run in to a problem lol but there is alot of things that wont void your warranty..It just gm's way of making you buy there performace parts....What i tell all my friends is buy a GM it allways pays to know somone is service...

Last edited by WICKEDSS; 10-02-2009 at 05:32 PM. Reason: still one bad dude
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:34 PM   #34
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What about one for the v6?
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:52 PM   #35
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What about one for the v6?
They are supposed to ship next week.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveBlue View Post

There are lots of hype, myths and legends out there on the errornet. Also some facts. Do your research from multiple sources."
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'errornet'....haha....nice one. I'm going to snopes right now to make sure you're correct

good post
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:09 PM   #37
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I like the look of that one compared to the one I had just bought from LateModelRacecraft.
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:56 PM   #38
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can we get a vid for the sound ???
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Old 10-03-2009, 08:19 AM   #39
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How about if you put on a hurst short shifter. Does that void our warranty.
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Old 10-03-2009, 08:50 AM   #40
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How about if you put on a hurst short shifter. Does that void our warranty.
No it will not..as long as you install it correctly you will be fine...But if its all jacked up and not even close to where is supposed to sit they might look at you funny..But alot of it depends on the dealership you take it to. Some want you to pay for the repairs....trust me customer pay pays alot more than warranty....The way i look at it is the only thing your voiding your warranty on is the part you have install that is aftermarket..Like David was saying its up to the dealership to prove that the aftermarket part you installed is the reason for the failure...
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:20 PM   #41
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Does the Magnuson-Moss warranty act cover headers? I'm tired of waiting for GM to have headers and other performance parts available, they have had plenty of time to come up with some good stuff!
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Old 10-04-2009, 03:25 PM   #42
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Ordered mine already. Can't wait until it gets here. Long time coming, but they say will be worth the wait.
Where did you order yours from?
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:19 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_desmo View Post
david are the dynos done with the hood open or closed?
Thanks
Hello mr_desmo,

The vehicles are tested with the hoods down!


Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcbmw View Post
What about one for the v6?
Hello usmcbmw,

Here is all the information on the 3.6L Airaid system : http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ghlight=airaid

Thanks,
David
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:22 AM   #44
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Hello mr_desmo,

The vehicles are tested with the hoods down!




Hello usmcbmw,

Here is all the information on the 3.6L Airaid system : http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ghlight=airaid

Thanks,
David
To tell you the thruth your system is the only one i would consider buying...when are these shipping?
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:28 AM   #45
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We are a dealer for Airaid as well. We hope to have these intakes very soon! Looks like a very nice piece! We will post up as soon as they arrive!

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Old 10-07-2009, 12:37 PM   #46
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Quote:
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To tell you the thruth your system is the only one i would consider buying...when are these shipping?
Hello mr_desmo,

The 250-242 3.6L systems are starting to ship this week

Thanks,
David
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:25 PM   #47
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Does the Airaid CAI have a C.A.R.B. EO number for us California guys?

Dean
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Old 10-07-2009, 05:20 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Does the Airaid CAI have a C.A.R.B. EO number for us California guys?

Dean
Hello bilydean,

At this time, I have not heard anything about that as of yet, since we just released the system.

I would say to hold on to your stock system in the meantime, and I will let everybody know as soon as I hear more on the subject.

Thanks,
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:59 PM   #49
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16 hp!? good. mine should be coming in a few days. any one know if it will work with a Magna charger?
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:05 PM   #50
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16 hp!? good. mine should be coming in a few days. any one know if it will work with a Magna charger?
Hello 2010_5thgen,

We have not had a chance to test fit the system with a Magnacharger. It's possible it could work, however I can't confirm at this time.

Thanks,
David
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