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Old 10-02-2009, 01:46 PM   #1
Blue Maro Demon

 
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I want the Z28 to be the BEST!

I just watched a video that said in 2012 Ford is looking to put twin turbo's on the Shelby GT500 that would make the car produce 600 horsepower maybe more. I really hope that Chevrolet will come out with a Z28 that has over 600 hp to match it like an engine close to the ZR1. What do you guys think they would do to respond to this I wonder. This will be after the 2011 Z28 beats the Shelby GT500 in its first year back in horsepower number.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:51 PM   #2
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People hate me for this but I don't think the Camaro should try to beat the GT500 on performance, just on price. GM has Corvettes that beat the GT500, I think that's all they need.

Give us a car that's within 50hp of the GT500 for $5k-$10k less and we win. But that's my opinion.

Regardless of what GM does, they sure lit a fire under Ford's ass, didn't they?
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:01 PM   #3
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I, like Blue, hope that GM makes some version of the Camaro that swings for the fence! If they make the Z/28 a better handling version of the SS and then make a ZL1 that is an all out monster with the LS9 or LS8 motor in it that would be my dream come true!

I know that not everyone wants the world like me so I think this route would make everyone happy.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
People hate me for this but I don't think the Camaro should try to beat the GT500 on performance, just on price. GM has Corvettes that beat the GT500, I think that's all they need.

Give us a car that's within 50hp of the GT500 for $5k-$10k less and we win. But that's my opinion.

Regardless of what GM does, they sure lit a fire under Ford's ass, didn't they?
+1 on that statement. The line of Corvettes that are out are comparably priced and powered to deal with the Shelby's. Hell, with a few mods, the SS will give a GT500 a good run. I've always been impressed with the power and performance of the LT and LS powerplants. It's good to see them going after each other like this, great for the consumer.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon View Post
I just watched a video that said in 2012 Ford is looking to put twin turbo's on the Shelby GT500 that would make the car produce 600 horsepower maybe more. I really hope that Chevrolet will come out with a Z28 that has over 600 hp to match it like an engine close to the ZR1. What do you guys think they would do to respond to this I wonder. This will be after the 2011 Z28 beats the Shelby GT500 in its first year back in horsepower number.
it's no big deal. even with 600 hp it will only run 12 flat and likely be more money and slower than the soon coming c7
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
People hate me for this but I don't think the Camaro should try to beat the GT500 on performance, just on price. GM has Corvettes that beat the GT500, I think that's all they need.

Give us a car that's within 50hp of the GT500 for $5k-$10k less and we win. But that's my opinion.

Regardless of what GM does, they sure lit a fire under Ford's ass, didn't they?

Ok repeat after me, the Camaro and Corvette are not in the same market segment and are not in competition with each other. Nor is the Vette in the same market as the GT-500. I don't hear you complaining about the 556hp CTS-V right??? Thats because both the CTS-V and the camaro appeal to different buyers than people who are seeking a high performance 2 seater.
Besides, Desiring a Camaro that has less performance than a Mustang is blasphamous... lol.
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Old 10-04-2009, 07:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
People hate me for this but I don't think the Camaro should try to beat the GT500 on performance, just on price. GM has Corvettes that beat the GT500, I think that's all they need.

Give us a car that's within 50hp of the GT500 for $5k-$10k less and we win. But that's my opinion.

Regardless of what GM does, they sure lit a fire under Ford's ass, didn't they?
Where were you when I was posting this? I got fire-roasted, barbecued, and grilled for this, not to mention getting flamed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99-LS1-SS View Post
I, like Blue, hope that GM makes some version of the Camaro that swings for the fence! If they make the Z/28 a better handling version of the SS and then make a ZL1 that is an all out monster with the LS9 or LS8 motor in it that would be my dream come true!

I know that not everyone wants the world like me so I think this route would make everyone happy.
I'd love to see a ZL1 that takes cues from the Corvette ZR1, including the LS9. Sharing engines does always make them a little cheaper to produce, so this could be less of a dream and more of a reality someday.

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Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93 View Post
+1 on that statement. The line of Corvettes that are out are comparably priced and powered to deal with the Shelby's. Hell, with a few mods, the SS will give a GT500 a good run. I've always been impressed with the power and performance of the LT and LS powerplants. It's good to see them going after each other like this, great for the consumer.
The GT500 is not that much faster than the SS, and Hennessey has proven this by rocking the GT500 with one of its Camaros. I wouldn't expect GM to take any shortcuts on a Z28, but it is worth noting that GM does not have a car that acts as a superior to the Mustang, which brings me to the next post.

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Originally Posted by truth411 View Post

Ok repeat after me, the Camaro and Corvette are not in the same market segment and are not in competition with each other. Nor is the Vette in the same market as the GT-500. I don't hear you complaining about the 556hp CTS-V right??? Thats because both the CTS-V and the camaro appeal to different buyers than people who are seeking a high performance 2 seater.
Besides, Desiring a Camaro that has less performance than a Mustang is blasphamous... lol.
:seesaw: I agree that the 4-seater Mustang and the 2-seater Corvette are very different markets, but let's take a close look at how they are marketed. The Corvette is marketed as a symbol of GM success, featuring a version that defeats some of the world's most notorious racers for a price that barely breaks 6 digits. In contrast, Ford has never marketed the Mustang as a supercar, leaving that to Saleen instead. Without a 2-seater Ford flagship, Ford pushes the Mustang as a performance car for everyone with classic styling and affordable performance. This is the exact description that GM enthusiasts, insiders, and market professionals would use to describe the Camaro. The difference is that the Camaro and Mustang, while competing, have not always made models that compete directly with one another.

For instance, the Mustang GT constitutes a pony car with a performance-oriented V8 engine. The Camaro SS has a similar description, but the Z28 has always been seen as a performance car, as well, traditionallay featuring a sophisticated suspension and an engine with lower displacement but similar performance numbers. The Mustang has implemented a track package on the GT as an option, which suggests that the GT is trying to either keep up with a far superior SS or trying to compensate for lacking in this department while GM is releasing an even more advanced Camaro in addition to the already superior SS.

Now, let's look at the GT500. Having established that the SS and Z28 were in similar performance divisions, the GT500 fits in a superior performance lineup. Popular alternatives to the SS and Z28 are limited to 1LE, BCE, and ZL1. Since the 1LE was sort of a secret for a little while and the BCE is the police package, the logical conclusion is that GT500 fighters would cruise the streets in a ZL1.

For Ford, however, the Corvette of the lineup has to be the GT500, marketed as the dominant domestic 4-seater. Obviously, Chevrolet enthusiasts would dispute this with a similarly priced Corvette. In performance terms, it makes sense that Ford would have to compete in this market, but never having a mainstream car in the Corvette-Viper segment of the market would make introducing one difficult and likely unprofitable. After all, Ford has done well for itself with an inferior Mustang GT500 as its flagship. Since the ZL1 is an exclusive, rare model, it makes sense that the more common Corvette would run against the GT500 simply because they are both common enough to be opponents.

In my opinion, the ZL1 is the best opponent for a GT500. That being said, I also should point out that the GT500 is considered a high-performance car while the ZL1 is considered a rare high-performance car. This rarity makes it a poor competitor, so the next best competitor is the Corvette, and that is why the connection is made between the Corvette and the GT500.
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Old 10-04-2009, 07:21 PM   #8
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The GT500's are around 11.8's stock. They are considerably faster. But I disagree with the one saying the Z/28 shouldn't outperform the GT500. That will be the Z/28's tier competition, why shouldn't it try to outperform it? And if I was GM, I'd rather make one more higher tier car than two more higher tier cars, it's more cost effect for a company that shouldn't be throwing money around at the moment.
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Old 10-04-2009, 07:44 PM   #9
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I have to disagree Blur, The C7 will likely go up in price point and is right around the corner. Also if I remeber correctly back in the 60's a fully optioned out camaro Z/28 was one of the most expensive versions of the camaro (those corvette 4-wheel disc brakes were not cheap back then). Chevy can make a 50k Z/28, JIMHO it should be geared for the purist who want an awesome track car that can also be driven daily on the streets.

Edit: that is what the Z/28 was, the only reason it had low displacement is because of transam racing. But that is no longer going on any more. Thus the door is open for any motor in GM inventory.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:46 PM   #10
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Muscle car vs. sports car, this debate has already been brought up numerous times. Two different classes of cars. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:53 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by truth411 View Post

Ok repeat after me, the Camaro and Corvette are not in the same market segment and are not in competition with each other. Nor is the Vette in the same market as the GT-500. I don't hear you complaining about the 556hp CTS-V right??? Thats because both the CTS-V and the camaro appeal to different buyers than people who are seeking a high performance 2 seater.
Besides, Desiring a Camaro that has less performance than a Mustang is blasphamous... lol.
A Z28 would be compared against both Corvettes and the CTS-V if it's priced high enough (~$50k). What makes you think it wouldn't be?

Besides, it would be a mistake for GM to price the Z28 that high. They've pretty much proved that there's an untapped market for muscle in the $30k-$40k range. They should place the Z28 in the top end of that range, not leave it all together.

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I have to disagree Blur, The C7 will likely go up in price point and is right around the corner.
I don't think car prices will go up any time soon.

Last edited by 2010-1SS-IBM; 10-04-2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Additional response.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:55 PM   #12
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LMAO at Blur's wikipedia entry above. Reminds me of...
"Why are firetrucks red?"
"A firetruck has a driver,
a driver has a foot,
a foot is twelve inches,
twelve inches makes a ruler,
a ruler is Queen Elizabeth,
Queen Elizabeth is a ship,
a ship sails the seas,
the seas have fish,
fish have fins,
the Finns fought the Russians,
and firetrucks are ALWAYS rushin'...
That's why firetrucks are red!"

The Mustang and Camaro are market competitors, the Corvette is in a different segment.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:25 AM   #13
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Muscle car vs. sports car, this debate has already been brought up numerous times. Two different classes of cars. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
so what is your ford boys excuses with the cts-v then? just wondering.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by WYD OPN View Post
LMAO at Blur's wikipedia entry above. Reminds me of...
"Why are firetrucks red?"
"A firetruck has a driver,
a driver has a foot,
a foot is twelve inches,
twelve inches makes a ruler,
a ruler is Queen Elizabeth,
Queen Elizabeth is a ship,
a ship sails the seas,
the seas have fish,
fish have fins,
the Finns fought the Russians,
and firetrucks are ALWAYS rushin'...
That's why firetrucks are red!"


The Mustang and Camaro are market competitors, the Corvette is in a different segment.
Dude that is an EPIC story lol. Who has that much free time to think of that?
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