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Old 06-13-2008, 04:00 PM   #1
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Mustang Vs. Camaro Pricing

I simply want to justify to an average person why spending a few thousand more on a Camaro really isn't as bad as you make think. Now this is sticky territory, some may not agree, or I may miss a valid point, but i think it should help. Now most of us know this technique, but rarely take time to actually use it, and put it down on paper. Now, to work you have to be fare to yourself, and the two vehicles, you may want to through in the Challenger as well. Now I am using what I think the Camaro will have, it may be different for you, but i think most of us know the basics. Circle the one you like most.

Base V8 Mustang Vs. Base Camaro
MSRP 26,240 (Ford.com) 28,999 (Guessing)
4.6L (How old is this engine?) 6.2L LS3(Corvette Motor, Updated)
300 (Camaro V6 Power) 400+ (Enough Said)
Ford Quality (opinions may very) GM Quality (Better)
1 year free of On Star..NOPE/NOTHING On Star 1 year free
MPG 15/22 (Ford.com) Auto AFM pos 17/26 more?
Out side design Out side design
Interior design Interior design
live axle pos IRA
Resell value resell value

That is just a few of the top of my head. Can you guys think of any more? I know we don't know anything in concrete on our beloved Camaro, but if we are honest with our selves we can make a pretty fair comparison. To me adding in the value of some of those things make the Camaro in my eyes a clear winner. Saving money on gas, On-Star, and the resell value, how mustangs can you find for sale cheap right now, alot! Money on maitnance. I can not wait for my Camaro.
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:40 PM   #2
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I wouldn't mind if the base V8 Maro is 30K much less 29K. Lutz said there would be a premium, but what I want to know is, how MUCH of a premium? Surely not this mid-to-high thirties crap Yahoo! has been spewing out. If they do that for the base V8, then the Camaro is going to need some STTRRRROOONG additional selling points to get off the lots, no matter how good it may look.

Not to mention with all this EPA stuff, can we even assume there WILL be an entry level AND top dog V8? Maybe I've missed out on some new word about it, but I'm under the impression they're pushing more for economy.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY View Post
I wouldn't mind if the base V8 Maro is 30K much less 29K. Lutz said there would be a premium, but what I want to know is, how MUCH of a premium? Surely not this mid-to-high thirties crap Yahoo! has been spewing out. If they do that for the base V8, then the Camaro is going to need some STTRRRROOONG additional selling points to get off the lots, no matter how good it may look.

Not to mention with all this EPA stuff, can we even assume there WILL be an entry level AND top dog V8? Maybe I've missed out on some new word about it, but I'm under the impression they're pushing more for economy.
Having a "top dog" will do virtually nothing to hurt GM's Cafe rating. If they sell 8 thousand of them a year, I'll be surprised. That's 8 thousand out of nearly 2 million vehicles sold in the US.........(is it 2 million? I suddenly want to say 5)
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joes3rdcamaro82/91/2010 View Post
I simply want to justify to an average person why spending a few thousand more on a Camaro really isn't as bad as you make think. Now this is sticky territory, some may not agree, or I may miss a valid point, but i think it should help. Now most of us know this technique, but rarely take time to actually use it, and put it down on paper. Now, to work you have to be fare to yourself, and the two vehicles, you may want to through in the Challenger as well. Now I am using what I think the Camaro will have, it may be different for you, but i think most of us know the basics. Circle the one you like most.

Base V8 Mustang Vs. Base Camaro
MSRP 26,240 (Ford.com) 28,999 (Guessing) as good of a guess as any
4.6L (How old is this engine?) 6.2L LS3(Corvette Motor, Updated) Stang is supposed to get a new 5.0L soon. And what about the 6.0L L76 (likely uptuned)?
300 (Camaro V6 Power) 400+ (Enough Said) probably, but we could get 'as low as' 361 hp -thats what the G8 GT gets
Ford Quality (opinions may very) GM Quality (Better)Mustang routinely gets awards for quality. Camaro should be pretty good considering other new cars they have out.
1 year free of On Star..NOPE/NOTHING On Star 1 year free
MPG 15/22 (Ford.com) Auto AFM pos 17/26 more?probably, it will be within 1mpg of that.
Out side design Out side design
Interior design Interior design
live axle pos IRS? Yes it will have it.
Resell value resell value

That is just a few of the top of my head. Can you guys think of any more? I know we don't know anything in concrete on our beloved Camaro, but if we are honest with our selves we can make a pretty fair comparison. To me adding in the value of some of those things make the Camaro in my eyes a clear winner. Saving money on gas, On-Star, and the resell value, how mustangs can you find for sale cheap right now, alot! Money on maitnance. I can not wait for my Camaro.
responce in bold. The Camaro will be superior in almost every way, just voicing a little bit of caution up there. We can't guess at resale or maintenance costs though. and not everyone likes onstar.

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Having a "top dog" will do virtually nothing to hurt GM's Cafe rating. If they sell 8 thousand of them a year, I'll be surprised. That's 8 thousand out of nearly 2 million vehicles sold in the US.........(is it 2 million? I suddenly want to say 5)
You are right and wrong. GM sold nearly 4 million vehicles in the US last year, about half of them were trucks, which have a different CAFE rating.
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Old 06-14-2008, 02:17 AM   #5
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I wouldn't mind if the base V8 Maro is 30K much less 29K. Lutz said there would be a premium, but what I want to know is, how MUCH of a premium? Surely not this mid-to-high thirties crap Yahoo! has been spewing out. If they do that for the base V8, then the Camaro is going to need some STTRRRROOONG additional selling points to get off the lots, no matter how good it may look.

Not to mention with all this EPA stuff, can we even assume there WILL be an entry level AND top dog V8? Maybe I've missed out on some new word about it, but I'm under the impression they're pushing more for economy.
Amen brother..there has been speculation that an RS would be a base V8 at approx. 29k, but not have 400 horses...with that same speculation the SS being 400 horses and being high 30s with the top dog being mid to high 40s. If this is the case, I will be quite upset...I can't touch the 40s so thats fine, but I was hoping I could walk away with a decent 400 hp V8 at approximately 34-35k. But with each passing day, I am becoming more concerned that this wont happen....
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:36 PM   #6
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Amen brother..there has been speculation that an RS would be a base V8 at approx. 29k, but not have 400 horses...with that same speculation the SS being 400 horses and being high 30s with the top dog being mid to high 40s. If this is the case, I will be quite upset...I can't touch the 40s so thats fine, but I was hoping I could walk away with a decent 400 hp V8 at approximately 34-35k. But with each passing day, I am becoming more concerned that this wont happen....
You're gettin yourself worked up for nothing. There's only gonna be two V8s as far as anyone knows. The "sensible" and the "demented" one. No one knows what they'll use for sure, but you can be quite sure you'll be able to nab ~400 horses for under 30k. You don't have to look any further than the Mustang and Challenger to realize that's true. (not the hp part...the price)
Relax...and enjoy the convertible pics!
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Old 06-14-2008, 02:42 PM   #7
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You're gettin yourself worked up for nothing. There's only gonna be two V8s as far as anyone knows. The "sensible" and the "demented" one. No one knows what they'll use for sure, but you can be quite sure you'll be able to nab ~400 horses for under 30k. You don't have to look any further than the Mustang and Challenger to realize that's true. (not the hp part...the price)
Relax...and enjoy the convertible pics!
You realize that you just essentially said that 400 hp is sensible . . . we're not spoiled are we?
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:23 PM   #8
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You're gettin yourself worked up for nothing. There's only gonna be two V8s as far as anyone knows. The "sensible" and the "demented" one. No one knows what they'll use for sure, but you can be quite sure you'll be able to nab ~400 horses for under 30k. You don't have to look any further than the Mustang and Challenger to realize that's true. (not the hp part...the price)
Relax...and enjoy the convertible pics!
The general idea is that if I want a loaded V8 pushing 400 and I tell myself it will be mid to high 30s....then it will be an extra Christmas present this fall/winter when I find that it will be priced lower...
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Old 06-14-2008, 07:27 PM   #9
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The general idea is that if I want a loaded V8 pushing 400 and I tell myself it will be mid to high 30s....then it will be an extra Christmas present this fall/winter when I find that it will be priced lower...
Oh...you gotta say loaded, then!! hehe Yeah...then in that case it will probably be mid 30s.
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:20 PM   #10
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You realize that you just essentially said that 400 hp is sensible . . . we're not spoiled are we?
400hp...how is that sensible? it should be 500!!!!!
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Originally Posted by brantley847 View Post
The general idea is that if I want a loaded V8 pushing 400 and I tell myself it will be mid to high 30s....then it will be an extra Christmas present this fall/winter when I find that it will be priced lower...
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Oh...you gotta say loaded, then!! hehe Yeah...then in that case it will probably be mid 30s.
dragon, you posted this vid a lil while back of Lutz saying that the v-6 would be around 20k and the v-8 around 30k ....


found it.


Quote:
http://videos.camaroz28.com/video/BB...02D9AD5E06.htm

Here's the Deal!! I'm Freaking Out right now!! I posted before I watched the whole video...stupid, but about 7:45 minutes into the video, Bob lutz Himself states that the Base V6 should be a little above 20,000, and the top of the line V8 at below, or just above $30,000!!!!! HAHA!! THIS MEANS I CAN GET A SS!!! YES!!
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:37 AM   #11
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I just want a sunroof and a great soundsystem...if that is classified as "loaded" then fine, otherwise I am set
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Old 06-15-2008, 11:27 AM   #12
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here it is, he says it about 2 minutes in...along with a few other interesting points. BOB LUTZ SAYS THAT THE WHEELS IN PRODUCTION "FOR SAKE OF REALITY WOULD PROBABLY SHRINK TO 18 or 20's"
I should also note how down to earth Bob Lutz is...he says, kind of goofily, "...It's not a literal interpretion of the classic Camaro grille, or we would have these 'great big round headlights'..." I chuckled a little.
http://videos.camaroz28.com/video/BB...02D9AD5E06.htm

Here's the Deal!! I'm Freaking Out right now!! I posted before I watched the whole video...stupid, but about 7:45 minutes into the video, Bob lutz Himself states that the Base V6 should be a little above 20,000, and the top of the line V8 at below, or just above $30,000!!!!! HAHA!! THIS MEANS I CAN GET A SS!!! YES!!

Okay, sorry. I'm done freaking out...on http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?
FROM DRAGONEYE
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Old 06-15-2008, 11:30 AM   #13
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oh wait our v6 camaros will be racing mustang gts while our v8 are just backup
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:42 PM   #14
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shank, you are a day late and a dollar short
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:55 PM   #15
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You're gettin yourself worked up for nothing. There's only gonna be two V8s as far as anyone knows. The "sensible" and the "demented" one. No one knows what they'll use for sure, but you can be quite sure you'll be able to nab ~400 horses for under 30k. You don't have to look any further than the Mustang and Challenger to realize that's true. (not the hp part...the price)
Relax...and enjoy the convertible pics!
I know this has been brought up before, but the Camaro can't possibly step on big brother's toes (Corvette), right? GM is not like to make a Camaro that can out perform the Corvette for cheaper, correct?
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:09 PM   #16
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I know this has been brought up before, but the Camaro can't possibly step on big brother's toes (Corvette), right? GM is not like to make a Camaro that can out perform the Corvette for cheaper, correct?
It depends on how you look at it...
If Z28 is to Camaro what Z06 is to Corvette and that's how you compare the cars then no. There will be no toe stepping, because I can't imagine any factory Camaro that will be able to step on the Z06.

But I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see the Z28 walk all over the entry-level Corvette...for less.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:19 PM   #17
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GM has been putting de-tuned Vette engines in other cars for a while now. Besides, isn't there a new Vette coming with 638 hp?
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:04 PM   #18
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But I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see the Z28 walk all over the entry-level Corvette...for less.
DON'T TEASE ME LIKE THAT!! I WONT BE ABLE TO CONTAIN MY EXCITEMENT!! I JUST MIGHT START TYPING IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS TO SHOW HOW MUCH THAT TICKLES SOUL!!
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:29 AM   #19
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GM has been putting de-tuned Vette engines in other cars for a while now. Besides, isn't there a new Vette coming with 638 hp?
For about the price of 2 loaded top dog camaros.
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Old 07-26-2008, 02:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by shank0668 View Post
Quote:

here it is, he says it about 2 minutes in...along with a few other interesting points. BOB LUTZ SAYS THAT THE WHEELS IN PRODUCTION "FOR SAKE OF REALITY WOULD PROBABLY SHRINK TO 18 or 20's"
I should also note how down to earth Bob Lutz is...he says, kind of goofily, "...It's not a literal interpretion of the classic Camaro grille, or we would have these 'great big round headlights'..." I chuckled a little.
http://videos.camaroz28.com/video/BB...02D9AD5E06.htm

Here's the Deal!! I'm Freaking Out right now!! I posted before I watched the whole video...stupid, but about 7:45 minutes into the video, Bob lutz Himself states that the Base V6 should be a little above 20,000, and the top of the line V8 at below, or just above $30,000!!!!! HAHA!! THIS MEANS I CAN GET A SS!!! YES!!

Okay, sorry. I'm done freaking out...on http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?
FROM DRAGONEYE
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think the V8 Top of the line SS camaro with the RS package will be near 30k..

In the "unveiling" the guy said It should be comparable with the SRT8.. And the Challenger is 40kish..

Damn I hope its around 30k Though.. PLEASE GOD ! MAKE IT 30ISH!
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Old 07-26-2008, 02:32 AM   #21
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In the "unveiling" the guy said It should be comparable with the SRT8.. And the Challenger is 40kish..
Performance-wise. Only performance-wise....once the Camaro comes out, it's gonna make VERY obvious how overinflated the SRT8's price is......
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Old 07-26-2008, 02:43 AM   #22
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I hope I'm wrong but I don't think the V8 Top of the line SS camaro with the RS package will be near 30k..

In the "unveiling" the guy said It should be comparable with the SRT8.. And the Challenger is 40kish..

Damn I hope its around 30k Though.. PLEASE GOD ! MAKE IT 30ISH!
It sounds like the base V8 is going to end up being $28,000- $30,000 at this point. The SS/RS package hopefully is no more than $4,000 -$5,000 more.. Even if the numbers are close to what I predict above, it is still less than a SRT8...
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Old 07-26-2008, 02:54 AM   #23
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I hope you are right on the money here and we get a Z28 that beats the base corvette in performance and price...It would be silly to even have a Z28 if it isn't..Also, it would have to be faster than a GT500 in all lap times for sure as well and beat that in price by at least $10,000..


so wait, you want a car thats better than the base vette, but beats the gt500 by 10k? how are you going to work that out?


the gt500 comes out at roughly 42k, the vert for 47k and the gt500kr for 80k
so to beat it in price, youd need it to cost around 30k but have the same power as a $46k vette?
not going to happen.

now if it were a gt500kr killer and 10k less in price, that would be another story.
but that would defeat the purpose of the camaro being the little brother to the vette as it would cost $70k and have the same power as a $46k vette. people would just buy the vette.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
so wait, you want a car thats better than the base vette, but beats the gt500 by 10k? how are you going to work that out?
You're right.. Base Vette is $46,950 and a base GT500 is $42330. My bad...I was going back in time when the markups on the GT500's were in the $10,000 range..

I will fix what I said...the Z28 has to be around the same price as the GT500 which will put it around $5,000 less than a base corvette.. That should be the target market segment and it should not affect base corvette numbers all that much...
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:09 AM   #25
CamaroSpike23
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all gm needs to do is drop the LS9 in our 'maro and we'll have a bad ass Z28. but they need to let the ZR1 be up on the stage for a while longer. which from the looks of things is what GM is doing. why would people want to buy a ZR1 vette with an LS9 when they could have a Z28 Camaro for half the price ya know? i figure they will let it run a lil longer, come out with another motor (prolly a Gen V) for the vette, then we will get an LS9 Z28 Camaro with 600 hp for prolly 40-50k which would whoop the shit out of the gt500kr with its measly 540hp and 80k sticker price. (which the gt500's hp is 500, and costs nearly half as much...wtf is up with shelby, ford, saleen and all their stupid ass markups for bullshit cars that arent worth a damn)
if you want, ill tell you how i really feel. lol
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