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Old 10-07-2009, 08:18 PM   #1
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WHAT IF.....................................

What if the Z/28 is a road course/track oriented package with Z/28 badging, Z/28 specific aero, interior, suspension, wheels/tires, brakes, ect, but only a few HP tweaks to the 6.2?

Who would by this TRACK Camaro? And why.

Who would not? And why?
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:22 PM   #2
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That would work for me.... Save the SC for a ZR1 type monster.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
What if the Z/28 is a road course/track oriented package with Z/28 badging, Z/28 specific aero, interior, suspension, wheels/tires, brakes, ect, but only a few HP tweaks to the 6.2?

Who would by this TRACK Camaro? And why.

Who would not? And why?
Hard to say. I would buy it simply because I'm going to buy the Z28, no matter what it is. But I think if they would take the car that far...just swap the engine.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:44 PM   #4
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Not that I wouldn't appreciate a track Camaro, but I wouldn't buy it. My thoughts are I can get an aftermarket Pedders installed that would most likely perform better. Getting a Z28 with a better engine in the long run would save me a Brinks truck worth of money.

All speculation though. I don't plan on getting a Z28 regardless. And the bottom line is I'll just be happy we have a Z, no matter what it is.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:44 PM   #5
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I'm hoping more and more it's just like the original Z. I don't want to spend $50,000.+ on the car I've always wanted. 450HP is really enough for me. I want a car that pivots gracefully on its center. One that handles with the best out there.
I can use that kind of performance everyday! 550HP+ just can't be used regularly enough!
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:57 PM   #6
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because why would you have 4 models?


a v6, a mid v8 (ss) then a track pack v8 (z28) and then eventually a monster v8.


i'm 99% sure that there isn't enough of a market to have so specific a model in between the monster and the base ss.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:01 PM   #7
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because why would you have 4 models?


a v6, a mid v8 (ss) then a track pack v8 (z28) and then eventually a monster v8.


i'm 99% sure that there isn't enough of a market to have so specific a model in between the monster and the base ss.
Ford has like 1,217 models of the mustang..... This year alone! j/k

But on a serious note... I think it makes perfect sense! There are people who would like a little more performance than the SS but dont want to fork out for a 50-55 thousand dollar monster..... I think the middle ground would be a good seller. JMHO
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:11 PM   #8
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Ford has like 1,217 models of the mustang..... This year alone! j/k

But on a serious note... I think it makes perfect sense! There are people who would like a little more performance than the SS but dont want to fork out for a 50-55 thousand dollar monster..... I think the middle ground would be a good seller. JMHO
It's 1,218!
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:18 PM   #9
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I just looked up info on the much desired 1969 Z28, and it was $458. over the BASE Camaro (6 cyl.). That made it a 16.8% bump for the option.
In todays $ it would be around $5,000. on the base SS/1, or around $36,000 ($40,000. SS/2).
They would sell a ton of them at that price.

You want more buy the COPO or ZL/1.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I just looked up info on the much desired 1969 Z28, and it was $458. over the BASE Camaro (6 cyl.). That made it a 16.8% bump for the option.
In todays $ it would be around $5,000. on the base SS/1, or around $36,000 ($40,000. SS/2).
They would sell a ton of them at that price.
Would they? As much as I appreciate heritage, If a new model is uncompetitive with other cars like the GT500 (which anything minus an engine upgrade would be)...I would fear for sales. Besides...outside of the first gen, the Z28 has meant anything from "entry level V8" (in the 4th gens), to "top-of-the-line" (in the second/some third gens).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
You want more buy the COPO or ZL/1.
Neither of which will be produced again in the near future by GM. :(

The SS will need some additional "options" to fill the gap between a base, and Z28 Camaro, but I really believe the Z28 needs equipment that would place it in the $45k range.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:32 PM   #11
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Would they? As much as I appreciate heritage, If a new model is uncompetitive with other cars like the GT500 (which anything minus an engine upgrade would be)...I would fear for sales. Besides...outside of the first gen, the Z28 has meant anything from "entry level V8" (in the 4th gens), to "top-of-the-line" (in some of the second gens).

Neither of which will be produced again in the near future by GM. :(

The SS will need some additional "options" to fill the gap between a base, and Z28 Camaro, but I really believe the Z28 needs equipment that would place it in the $45k range.
Guys the Z/28 competed against the Boss Mustang not the Shelby Mustang.
The Shelby was after the Vette and still is (they don't stand a chance). I believe there is a badder (than the Z/28) Camaro coming.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Guys the Z/28 competed against the Boss Mustang not the Shelby Mustang.
The Shelby was after the Vette and still is (they don't stand a chance).
Lemme post this to you:
What does a Z/28 need to compete against...today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I believe there is a badder (than the Z/28) Camaro coming.
I wouldn't count on it. With CAFE standards, and performance cars coming for other brands...they can't give the Camaro many more performance models...
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:38 PM   #13
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i don't see that with a double dip recession on the way
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:39 PM   #14
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That would work for me.... Save the SC for a ZL1 type monster.
Fixed
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:43 PM   #15
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Fixed


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Old 10-07-2009, 09:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Lemme post this to you:
What does a Z/28 need to compete against...today?


I wouldn't count on it. With CAFE standards, and performance cars coming for other brands...they can't give the Camaro many more performance models...
Does it have to compete?
Why not make and hold its own market (the vette did it for years) like it did in 1967 (till Ford an Dodge joined in)?
However, Ford will bring back the Boss, Bullit or some other Stang sooner or later.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Does it have to compete?
If it wants to sell...then yes. Look at the market today, and customer/enthusiast demand. Most of us (magazines included) want something to compete with the GT500...regardless of whether Ford intended to compete with us or not...

What you described could easily be accomplished by a Chevy version of the Mustang's "track pack"...slapping a few body panels, and the Z/28 name on that, at least imo, would be an insult to the status of the model. It's got to be a whole car. And more power doesn't mean it won't be the best handler (like the original Z/28).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Why not make and hold its own market (the vette did it for years) like it did in 1967 (till Ford an Dodge joined in)?
However, Ford will bring back the Boss, Bullit or some other Stang sooner or later.
You can't count on that. They brought back the Bullit last year...that was a bit of a joke. Perhaps a Boss...but who knows what they'll do with it. And the market is sports coupes...creating a trim all its own (with nothing to sell or compare it against) would be a disaster for marketing:

"Why should I spend $xx,xxx more to buy this?"
"Because it handles better and looks different than an SS."
"Does it go faster?"
"No."
"I can buy a GT500 that handles better** and goes faster for $x,xxx more, which isn't a lot. Good-bye."
-OR-
"I can buy a Mustang GT with a track pack for $xx,xxx less if I want handling. Good-bye."

That's not to say a few people wouldn't buy it (like me ), but it makes selling the car difficult. You want any new car or trim level to be competitive (ideally, class-leading), and unique in this market.


This discussion is actually a good example of a fear I had going into the Camaro as a whole...I was afraid heritage would confine the car (the V6 proved me wrong). I was afraid that engineers/designers would be too busy thinking about 40 years ago to concentrate on today and bring a class-leading car (I was also wrong, thankfully). I fully expect the trend to continue with the Z/28...but I still fear a heritage-confinement of the model.

Still, I want to reiterate that the Z/28 has spent over two full generations as the top-of-the-line Camaro. It spent 3-5 years as the "track Camaro", inferior in terms of speed to the SS (which has already been "botched up" if we're sticking with the 1st-gen formula. And it spent about half a generation as the "entry-level" V8 Camaro...You could make an argument for any one of these routes, because historically, the Z28 has been "that" car.

I hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you, 2cnd chance. You're bringing up very good points, and I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
What if the Z/28 is a road course/track oriented package with Z/28 badging, Z/28 specific aero, interior, suspension, wheels/tires, brakes, ect, but only a few HP tweaks to the 6.2?

Who would by this TRACK Camaro? And why.

Who would not? And why?

Would be a little dissappointed in the lack of power, I would prefer a different engine package.. either a 7.0L or the 6.2 S/C

Either way, put me down cause I want that Z28 RPO and badging

guess it is in my nature
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:54 PM   #19
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i would love to see the z/28 with an ls7(yes i know, wont happen since they are not going to make it anymore), better suspension(a pedders setup would be nice), some slightly different aesthetics, maybe a little lighter? i would want the car to be a little more nimble.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:10 PM   #20
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i would love to see the z/28 with an ls7(yes i know, wont happen since they are not going to make it anymore), better suspension(a pedders setup would be nice), some slightly different aesthetics, maybe a little lighter? i would want the car to be a little more nimble.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:14 PM   #21
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my opinion..

factory stripped down... Radio, A/C delete, manual windows/locks...light weight interior and trim..3500 lbs or less

LSA supercharged 6.2L with track pack adjustable suspension ridding on wider rubber.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:23 PM   #22
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LSA Z28 for me please!!! Just wish the LSA blower made a little more whine---I must be the only person that loves that mesmerizing sound!!

Glad the Z is starting to look like a possibility again. I wonder if SEMA or the NAIAS show in Detroit this year will bring any formal announcement and/or surprises?!

Go GM!!!!
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:44 AM   #23
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Unfortunatly, I have noticed that handeling doesn't sell as well as 0-60. It would be hard to sell a Z-28 on just handeling upgrades. Go hog wild, make the SS dominate the GT500, people will pay for that, make the Z-28 crush the GT in 0-60 and G force, and have the V-6 beat the new Ford V-6. If you can slip it all past the eco weenie GS-8's that will lead GM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:28 AM   #24
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I don't believe in the "track pack". People hitting track usually mod their cars and don't need a factory track pack.

I do believe much more in the "HP monster" theory
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:34 AM   #25
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Am I correct in remembering that the engine size of the original Z28 was driven by the race series the Camaro was going to compete in?

I don't think engine size was a GM choice to make a displacement limited car, it was GMs decision to compete in road racing.

So without a race series to limit the engine size or power, why are some of you guys so concerned about having the original cars "limitations"?

Just asking, I am curious, so don't take this as a dig on anyone. This is a great conversation.
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