SS Prototype Bumper or Original Bumper (Bumpergate has begun)

[Dragoneye]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

So, money was sunk into this thing that about half the people HATE, and it's already going on the limited production model. That means the money invested in the SS bumper has to be spread out over the SS model sticker price.

Whoever said that? I don't see anyone expressing those feelings. In Fact, if you search the thread, you'll find the only person who uses the word at all (besides me, now) is you........

I think this is more of a preference thing, given that there is no "I don't mind either" option in the poll (which I would fit very snugly in, fyi)...and if the 'SS' facia was the only choice, I'm certain 99% of those who don't prefer it would have no problems with it.

Which leaves....you and one other (because nobody's ever truly alone in their opinions). I don't think GM did any wrong by investing this "massive" amount of money you percieve into a new facia...which I doubt was little more than a computer render, and a cut-die. (and take into account the numbers of new dies that are constantly revised, and recut.)

[TAG UR IT]

^Oh boy.....if I may...

Ok...as good as I can do this w/out sounding like an ass or offensive....

Personally, from ALL the pictures I've seen so far, I like the concept bumper better. BUT, you MUST remember that hundreds of people complained about the front bumper/facia after it was released (hell, I did too! and got published in CHP bitching about it!!!). It was like they loved everything else but hated the bumper. A lot of people are still unsure about it to this day.

Now, LOOK AT THE POLL
It's almost split down the middle......which means that there's quite a few people who still didn't like the concepts front bumper.

AND....WHO is to say that one will be offered on one model over another?? Camero? I trust the guy wholeheartedly, but GM could easily say ANYONE can order the updated bumper or concept bumper or this one will be offered on this model and that on the other.

We've heard from the desciples on this already and one of their biggest concerns was to make it OBVIOUS that the top model be DIFFERENT than the base models. Do you remember the differences between the Z28 and V6 from the 4th Gens? A painted roof pillar and some badges. wow.

IMO, GM is seriously trying to make different models..........DIFFERENT. They are trying to make everyone happy and LISTEN.

Look. If you don't want it, you don't have to get it. IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. If you want one over the other, you can, I"m sure, order it....if not through GM, from aftermarket.

I highly doubt GM would EVER offer 6 piston Brembos on all 4 corners for all their SS models just by not making another bumper. Really.....we're not talking that much cost at all. A guy draws up the design, the make sure it works on a computer model, and then clay it. We're talking a couple grand to make a one off bumper. BIG, BIG, BIG difference that making all SS's standard w/ Brembos.........

Just give it some time...and remember


"Keep the faith"

[discoteka]

Think how much cooler a Camaro with the SS bumper will look with a intercooler...

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by discoteka

Think how much cooler a Camaro with the SS bumper will look with a intercooler...

Remember, Captain, I'm still split down the middle. I like both...but it'll all pan out. This reminds me of me in your position when the whole gas cap thing was explained...and then the b-pillar. Oh, don't get me started again!!!

[The_Blur]

This is making me sick! Stop complaining about the further out fog lights. You know that this will not stop you from buying a Camaro. There is absolutely no way that this will be a deal breaker. When you see people like me rolling in our fresh Camaros featuring the supposedly mistake of a bumper you will wish you didn't ask for your deposit refunded. The similarities are so close that you really have no reason to complain. Whoever started this mess (not the thread) is getting a Suburban!

[dobbins67326]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

This is making me sick! Stop complaining about the further out fog lights. You know that this will not stop you from buying a Camaro. There is absolutely no way that this will be a deal breaker. When you see people like me rolling in our fresh Camaros featuring the supposedly mistake of a bumper you will wish you didn't ask for your deposit refunded. The similarities are so close that you really have no reason to complain. Whoever started this mess (not the thread) is getting a Suburban!

+1 either way the challengers and mustangs are gonna be looking at the back of the car!

[Rallysport]

Originally Posted by dobbins67326

+1 either way the challengers and mustangs are gonna be looking at the back of the car!

My thoughts exactly. Why all the whining? Be happy we actually will be able to BUY A NEW CAMARO, and that it will be superior to the Ford and Dodge.

[Duntov7]

Sounds a bit like the whining over the then new 2005 Corvette C6 license plate holder issue....the dust settles after a while.

[Punk_rider]

I do kinda feel like Captain Awesome ...

I don't feel the NEED for a new bumper. Actually, I would have expacted chevy to make a new bumper an option. I mean, we love the concept. There's not one person (I guess) whou wouldn't be happy here if Fbod said "that was a joke, the prod camaro will be the exact replica of the concept". We would all be crazy freakin' happy!

This is why I can understand technical modifications such as height, weight, length and so on (even if I highly regret it). I hardly understand these look-only changes.

I can understand changing the door handles because of price. But I hardly understand ADDING price because of th ebumper.

My request: Mr Chevy, keep it simple and as close to the concept as possible. All "look changes" should be options or aftermarket.

And I'd feel perfectly happy to have a SS looking like the V6 + a badge + rear spoiler.

Simplicity is style. Don't turn my camaro into a BMW M3 OR WORSE, into a frekin' fast and furious ricer ...

[boxmonkeyracing]

The original bumper from what I remember wasn't road and crash worthy according to the designers. AND with that being said it WAS going to be redesigned. Period. and as it stands right now 58.14% of the people like it better. As compared to 41.86 that don't like it.

I liked the original bumper to. but i like this bumper even more minus how the lower section black plastic is done. and I will redo that after I get mine. but to me this bumper is more aggressive compared to the concepts.

This subject is very polarizing and that's why I keep saying the after market is going to be your friend if you don't like something about the car.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

The original bumper from what I remember wasn't road and crash worthy according to the designers. AND with that being said it WAS going to be redesigned. Period. and as it stands right now 58.14% of the people like it better. As compared to 41.86 that don't like it.

I liked the original bumper to. but i like this bumper even more minus how the lower section black plastic is done. and I will redo that after I get mine. but to me this bumper is more aggressive compared to the concepts.

This subject is very polarizing and that's why I keep saying the after market is going to be your friend if you don't like something about the car.

[TAG UR IT]

I don't know how it should be completed, but I feel there SHOULD be a difference between the V6, the V8, and the top dog. There SHOULD be a difference....and I don't mean by simple badges. Those owning the top of the line models bought them for a reason....they want the biggest, best, quickest, most jaw dropping ride of all....and if a badge is the only difference between IT and a V6??? Heck no....

Let GM fabricate parts to make the top of the line distinguishable from the base. It's pride of ownership.

I'M VERY PROUD OF THE FACT THAT MY 4th Gen HOOD AND SPOILER ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE V6 and Z28. IT MEANS SOMETHING....

just like the bumper on the 5th Gen.

[fredl11]

it needs Bumper 2 for intercoolers!

[GameOv3r]

I voted Original Bumper....i can't stand the new one...

[pinkcamaro10]

OK. I did vote for the old bumper. I do think it looks better, but that doesn't mean that i dont love the new bumper. Either way I will be proud to be driving a new camaro no matter what the bumper looks like.

[carsismeZ06]

honestly, they aren't that different...

[Beyond Limits]

Don't forget too that seeing something in a picture is not the same as seeing it in person. Perspective, lens focal length, depth of field... all play a significant role in how something appears in a picture, all of which can be very distorted from how something looks when you see it in person. I highly doubt any of you are going to run up to the dealership when they finally arrive, take one look at the new Camaro, shriek in horror and run away screaming about how you hate it and you will never own one because the bumper on the production model is different then the prototype.

Hell... I just can't wait for it to show up period!

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Whoever said that? I don't see anyone expressing those feelings. In Fact, if you search the thread, you'll find the only person who uses the word at all (besides me, now) is you........

I think this is more of a preference thing, given that there is no "I don't mind either" option in the poll (which I would fit very snugly in, fyi)...and if the 'SS' facia was the only choice, I'm certain 99% of those who don't prefer it would have no problems with it.

Which leaves....you and one other (because nobody's ever truly alone in their opinions). I don't think GM did any wrong by investing this "massive" amount of money you percieve into a new facia...which I doubt was little more than a computer render, and a cut-die. (and take into account the numbers of new dies that are constantly revised, and recut.)

A die that size is not as easy to make or as inexpensive as you suggest.

Also, taking all the emotional arguments out of the equation we're left with the basic argument that someone "fixed something that ain't broke". It costed money and time. We could have had a lower priced Camaro sooner if the nose wasn't tweaked.

That's it.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

A die that size is not as easy to make or as inexpensive as you suggest.

Also, taking all the emotional arguments out of the equation we're left with the basic argument that someone "fixed something that ain't broke". It costed money and time. We could have had a lower priced Camaro sooner if the nose wasn't tweaked.

That's it.

I still say and maintain that the bumper had to be redesigned for regulations. and that's why it was changed more then anything then it was broke using that logic.

[Dragoneye]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

A die that size is not as easy to make or as inexpensive as you suggest.

Also, taking all the emotional arguments out of the equation we're left with the basic argument that someone "fixed something that ain't broke". It costed money and time. We could have had a lower priced Camaro sooner if the nose wasn't tweaked.

That's it.

Maybe not, I don't make them. But I doubt it's going to have ANY noticable effect on the Camaro's price like you suggest, not when you consider everything else they have to go through as they constantly tweak and improve upon things...And it certainly couldn't have had any effect on the timing of the car (the plant isn't even up at full-tilt, yet)...........

You're letting your feelings for this new bumper get the better of you, Captain; your arguments are flawed. So you don't like it. Lots of other people do, and the team thought it was important enough to invest in.

That's it, imho.

[Captain Awesome]

Saying someone's arguments are flawed while supplying OPINIONS (not facts) to support yourself is flawed.

Just because you like the bumper that several people have expressed a strong distaste for doesn't make you "right".

My argument is that the bumper deviates significantly from the concept cars bumpers. There's no flaw in that argument. The rest of the things I said about wasing money on unnecessary changes is just incing on the cake. They spent money making the car un-concept-like and spent time doing it. If this type of waste is rampant at GM then this is reason to believe all their cars are not efficiently designed and overall the prices reflect the efficiency of the company.

Even if you do a bunch of handwaving and dismiss the wasteful practice of braking stuff that didn't need rework and say this is a flawed argument, you still can't convince me that there's a reason to make such a radical departure from the concept that everyone loved.

Meanwhile, I'm not alone in my position. Yet you try and speak as if I'm the lone dissenter. MANY people don't like the change.

[Dragoneye]

What Opinions am I supplying? And what facts are you supplying that gives you a basis to say that?

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

you still can't convince me that there's a reason to make such a radical departure from the concept that everyone loved.

I can't...but I'm 100% sure that Scott, or Camero, or any of the people involved with the Camaro could. You don't do something for nothing when you're on a budget. You don't change things "because you felt like it". There is a reason for everything. For what it's worth...we are extremely fortunate in that VERY few vehicles ever remain this close to their concepts. You may not like this bumper...but GM did an excellent job staying as true to the concept vehicle as possible.

And I don't believe you're alone. (I did say that...my bad) I think you are one of a very few that object to the new bumper. Like I said, if this were the only option, I'd bet that 90% of the people who said they prefer the original wouldn't have a problem with it.

All I'm taking away from this exchange so far, (I'd like to be wrong) is that you don't like the way the SS facia looks, and you're trying to justify that opinon by making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.......

[Captain Awesome]

What remains to be seen, and nobody has really bothered to touch on this much yet... is if they put that 6 slot grille on the outside of the bumper.

I see a lot of photoshops that make the "mouth" bigger and push the foglights out a little, and I suspect that a lot of the new bumper fans are thinking that THIS is the way it's going to be.

However, if the bumper turns out to have the grille on the outside like it is in the one photo of the convertible I really wonder if this will change some of the opinions to the original bumper. Of all the options, the grille on the face with the tiny slits is the worst looking of the lot (except for the new Bumblebeet treatment).

Care to elaborate more on your opinions of the convertible grille vs. the photoshops of the ss lower fascia?

[Dragoneye]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Care to elaborate more on your opinions of the convertible grille vs. the photoshops of the ss lower fascia?

Me?

I think the grille seen in the real photos isn't exactly how it's going to look. (Almost 2 years of watching prototypes and concepts run around has taught me that much.) I think that grille will be recessed more, like all the other bumpers we've seen. Because as it stands right now, if I was sure this was the final look....I don't HATE it, I wouldn't have a problem with it.....but I don't care for it.

I think the Photoshops (although great work, and professionally done ) don't do any justice to what the real grille will look like. Proportions are all messed up when you simply enlarge the original lower facia. I think they're photographic speculation.

[LS9CamaroSS]

Give me #2 it look a lot more mean... if that is possible with this car...