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Forced Induction - V6 V6 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

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Old 10-16-2009, 06:48 PM   #1
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Twin turbo for the 2010 V6 Camaro

Just saw the SCAP’s twin turbo for the V6 Camaro. And there's no prices yet. You guys got any guesses.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:53 PM   #2
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I would get in contact with Turbonetics. They are the company making the turbos for the V6. And, they make a killer turbo!!
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:13 PM   #3
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will it be cheaper to go with Twin Turbo or Supercharger on the V6?
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:32 PM   #4
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Screw prices, I want dyno results!
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:40 PM   #5
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Yeah i was wondering the same thing.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:20 PM   #6
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will it be cheaper to go with Twin Turbo or Supercharger on the V6?
I would think a supercharger would be cheaper. With the turbo setup you would have the two turbos and the special exhaust manifolds feeding them. With a supercharger it would probably be a setup like vortechs.
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Old 10-17-2009, 07:05 AM   #7
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In general turbo kits are usually more expensive than supercharger kits. Twin turbos even more....

Other thing to remember... things that show up at SEMA don't necessarily make it to market...
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Old 10-19-2009, 12:34 AM   #8
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Might be a stupid question, but what is the difference between a supercharger kit and a turbo kit?
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Old 10-19-2009, 12:45 AM   #9
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im thinkin a twin turbo should put it @ around 500 rwhp
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:05 PM   #10
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why twin turbo these engines? one turbo is more than capable of powering it. am i missing something?
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:35 PM   #11
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im thinkin a twin turbo should put it @ around 500 rwhp
Wow! How much boost you planning on running to get that?
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:10 PM   #12
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Might be a stupid question, but what is the difference between a supercharger kit and a turbo kit?

Sheer basics here...

supercharger is belt driven. Takes horsepower to make horsepower, however it's instant! Foot on gas, back in seat!

turbocharger is exhaust driven. Free horsepower as it takes waste gases to spool a turbine and compress air the way a supercharger does. Depending on turbo, one might get lag, as the turbo can only spool when you are on the gas, and it takes a moment. Between new vane designs and ball bearings, amongst other things, turbo lag is all but a thing of the past.


Supercharges can be cheaper due to the fact that depending upon style , centrifigual or roots,and boost, all one has to do is change intake plumbing and belt. Turbo's require new exhaust manifolds and intake plumbing, in the bare minimum.
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:11 PM   #13
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why twin turbo these engines? one turbo is more than capable of powering it. am i missing something?
I was thinking the same thing. Seems weird with Twin turbos, but most of the time when this happens from the factory it's discarded in favor of a single turbo setup. While the 3.6L is not a real big engine, I would think it would push a decent size turbo and probably make enough streetable power for most anyone
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Old 12-07-2009, 05:36 PM   #14
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I was thinking the same thing. Seems weird with Twin turbos, but most of the time when this happens from the factory it's discarded in favor of a single turbo setup. While the 3.6L is not a real big engine, I would think it would push a decent size turbo and probably make enough streetable power for most anyone
Two smaller turbos can sometimes spool faster than one larger turbo. I wonder what they are doing to tune the car. Bob

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Old 12-08-2009, 10:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
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im thinkin a twin turbo should put it @ around 500 rwhp
Quote:
Originally Posted by general23cmp View Post
Wow! How much boost you planning on running to get that?
V6's dyno at 250ish WHP (304 hp)
To get 500 WHP(608 hp) you should need at least 15psi
Thats asking alot of that motor with such a high C/R on pump gas .
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:30 AM   #16
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V6's dyno at 250ish WHP (304 hp)
To get 500 WHP(608 hp) you should need at least 15psi
Thats asking alot of that motor with such a high C/R on pump gas .
Lets not forget that pump gas is being delivered via direct injection....whole new ballgame.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:45 PM   #17
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Lets not forget that pump gas is being delivered via direct injection....whole new ballgame.
Mike, is it true that DI cars are more difficult to tune? From what I've read, the next LS engine for Corvettes and Camaros will be DI with more power and more efficient, and perhaps smaller CC. I wonder how that will affect the tuners?
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mrray13 View Post
Sheer basics here...

supercharger is belt driven. Takes horsepower to make horsepower, however it's instant! Foot on gas, back in seat!

turbocharger is exhaust driven. Free horsepower as it takes waste gases to spool a turbine and compress air the way a supercharger does. Depending on turbo, one might get lag, as the turbo can only spool when you are on the gas, and it takes a moment. Between new vane designs and ball bearings, amongst other things, turbo lag is all but a thing of the past.


Supercharges can be cheaper due to the fact that depending upon style , centrifigual or roots,and boost, all one has to do is change intake plumbing and belt. Turbo's require new exhaust manifolds and intake plumbing, in the bare minimum.
turbo's aren't free HP from exhaust. It still "robs" HP, just not nearly the amount a SC does. But turbo's usually bring on a whole set of problems as well such as the heat they generate. And they can be more finicky and can require more maintenence.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by matt55 View Post
V6's dyno at 250ish WHP (304 hp)
To get 500 WHP(608 hp) you should need at least 15psi
Thats asking alot of that motor with such a high C/R on pump gas .
On what turbo? Bost pressure is subjective. 15 PSI on a 88 mm compressor is not the same as 15 PSI on a TD04. for example the SS makes what 350 to the wheels give or take? At 9 PSI turbonetics is making ~650 HP with a 61mm compressor. My 350Z made 234 WHP stock. At 8 PSI on a 60-1 compressor I made 379 WHP on pump gas. I wouldn't be so quick to say you need 15 PSI and call it that. It will depend on the system design and the compressor used in the system.
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:14 PM   #20
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turbo's aren't free HP from exhaust. It still "robs" HP, just not nearly the amount a SC does. But turbo's usually bring on a whole set of problems as well such as the heat they generate. And they can be more finicky and can require more maintenence.
Can you expand on this a bit more? Turbochargers actually are close to 100% efficient as they utilize exhaust gas spent during the combusting cycle and convert that waste energy which would otherwise by expelled from the tail pipe into additional power by driving a compressor wheel on the cold side. This in definition alone means a turbocharger does not have parasitic loss. The energy used to drive a supercharger is the same energy used to turn the crankshaft meaning the supercharger is a parastic power draw using some of the existing power to spin the screws. The exhaust gas exiting the manifolds and leaving the tail pipe is not used for ANYTHING therefore it being used to turn the turbine wheel and compressor wheel results in wasted energy being converted to more horsepower or zero parasitic loss. Also modern turbochargers are quiet reliable and do not necessarily require "more maintenance". Any car with forced induction should have oil changes done very often (3,000 miles is my preference) and routine inspection of the equipment used regardless of supercharger or turbocharger. There is nothing special neeeded for turbos here. In regards to heat modern turbos are typically watercooled and do not add significant heat especially when ceramic coating is used.
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:57 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA View Post
Can you expand on this a bit more? Turbochargers actually are close to 100% efficient as they utilize exhaust gas spent during the combusting cycle and convert that waste energy which would otherwise by expelled from the tail pipe into additional power by driving a compressor wheel on the cold side. This in definition alone means a turbocharger does not have parasitic loss. The energy used to drive a supercharger is the same energy used to turn the crankshaft meaning the supercharger is a parastic power draw using some of the existing power to spin the screws. The exhaust gas exiting the manifolds and leaving the tail pipe is not used for ANYTHING therefore it being used to turn the turbine wheel and compressor wheel results in wasted energy being converted to more horsepower or zero parasitic loss. Also modern turbochargers are quiet reliable and do not necessarily require "more maintenance". Any car with forced induction should have oil changes done very often (3,000 miles is my preference) and routine inspection of the equipment used regardless of supercharger or turbocharger. There is nothing special neeeded for turbos here. In regards to heat modern turbos are typically watercooled and do not add significant heat especially when ceramic coating is used.
I think what he means by loss of energy, is the back pressure related to having the turbo charger and preventing the exhaust to free flow through the pipes. I agree with this to some minute extend. However, having proper Turbo size and ball bearing, can eliminate this back pressure to a large extend. Secondly, the further away the turbo is from the exhaust manifold, the less of back pressure problem you would encounter. When adding Turbo, the best thing is to replace the stock CATs with High Flow Cats and replace "Chambered" mufflers with straight through mufflers, and you barely loose any power due to back pressure. In Turbo system, you want to have the least amount of blockage after the hot side, to get the gas pass through the turbo as fast as possible. My two cents!
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:23 PM   #22
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I think what he means by loss of energy, is the back pressure related to having the turbo charger and preventing the exhaust to free flow through the pipes. I agree with this to some minute extend. However, having proper Turbo size and ball bearing, can eliminate this back pressure to a large extend. Secondly, the further away the turbo is from the exhaust manifold, the less of back pressure problem you would encounter. When adding Turbo, the best thing is to replace the stock CATs with High Flow Cats and replace "Chambered" mufflers with straight through mufflers, and you barely loose any power due to back pressure. In Turbo system, you want to have the least amount of blockage after the hot side, to get the gas pass through the turbo as fast as possible. My two cents!
You have a point here and are absolutely correct. A properlly sized turbocharger shoudl result in little to no added backpressure especially if you have a high flowing turbine wheel and relatively open exhaust before and after the turbine section. That's why I mentioned in my post that turbos are almost 100% efficient. The only reduction from 100% is the amount removed for any backpressure presented to the engine. With a properlly set up turbocharger system and the correct size wheel and housing this should be no issue. One could argue that with a perfectly match combination of turbine wheel, housing, and ehxaust system you could present a near zero increase in backpressure. Compare this with a supercharger where you are guranteed to have parasitic loss though. No matter how free flowing the ehxaust system is you will have parasitic loss from a supercharger.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:07 PM   #23
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On what turbo? Bost pressure is subjective. 15 PSI on a 88 mm compressor is not the same as 15 PSI on a TD04. for example the SS makes what 350 to the wheels give or take? At 9 PSI turbonetics is making ~650 HP with a 61mm compressor. My 350Z made 234 WHP stock. At 8 PSI on a 60-1 compressor I made 379 WHP on pump gas. I wouldn't be so quick to say you need 15 PSI and call it that. It will depend on the system design and the compressor used in the system.

A properly sized one .......

Big turbo VS small turbo , yes bigger is more efficient so you get a cooler charge, less back presure and can tune accordingly , but who is going to strap an 88mm on a stock 3.6 ?


Turbonetics made 650 Whp ? or 650 flywheel HP , Ive not seen it in the thread .


Lets play a game , lets say to X 2 WHP you need X 2 the atmosphere , 14.7psi
I would say to go from 234 to 379 you need about 9 psi


234 whp(your stock) X 1.62 = 379whp (with turbo 8 psi , tune , exhaust?)
14.7psi (1bar , an atmosphere at sea level) X 1.62 = 9.1psi ("-" 14.7psi for the atosphere)

Pretty close huh ? and if your stock #'s had a tune and was 240whp and 8psi it would come up with 377 whp . a 54% gain or 54% X 14.7psi = 8psi


So I still say to get +500WHP on a stock Camaro 3.6 DI you need at least 15psi or close to it , +/- , you milage mat vary , no $ back guarantee , dang its close enough for the internet
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:34 PM   #24
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This might be a dumb question but which 1 would be safer for the engine a turbo set up or a supercharger.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:54 PM   #25
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why twin turbo these engines? one turbo is more than capable of powering it. am i missing something?
TWO WORDS:TURBO LAG,
as with a single turbo it'll take a while for the air to spool the turbo which causes a lag or space of time between you putting your foot to the carpet and the power comming to bear.

a twin turbo setup can allievate this by usually having two small trubos which take less time to spool and one turbo can spool the other therefore creating a more instantanious power response

you can use a compound boost setup which involves usually 1-2 turbos feeding into a supercharger like Hellion does with the GT500 AND SVT Cobra kits.this has several advantages like adding more low end torque
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