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Old 06-27-2008, 04:05 PM   #1
Tomash
 
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Used 5th gen - how much will it cost?

Yeah, title pretty much says it all, but let me introduce.

I'll be able to think about getting a Camaro somewhere around next summer, after I complete my masters degree and be able to work full-time.

Now salaries (and prices) in Poland are definitely lower than in the US and combined with VAT+car_import_tax+customs they all make getting a Camaro in Poland "a bit" tougher task than for someone working in the US.
Example with numbers? Here we go:
- RoR programmer in US (west coast area) earns 70,000-110,000 $ / year, thus making it possible to buy a Camaro in one year (for less than half his year net salary) while comfortably living.
- RoR programmer in Poland earns (calculating "raw" PLN-USD) 24,000-36,000 $ / year (although these salaries are net, i.e. with taxes already substracted), so buying a Camaro for 20-24k$ requires getting a 3-4 yr car credit whilst paying a bit below month's net salary every month.

I know I could fly to the US for this one "Camaro year" right after graduating, and RoR programmers seem welcome there. But it's quite a burden, especially with a) finding a job BEFORE flight and b) getting a work visa (and being treated like crap by the embassy employees), even with 1B form ("invitation for working tech/specialist") filled by my to-be employer .

So I'm thinking about getting a used one, especially taking into account that 6-12 months after Our Awaited February there should already be some on the second-hand market.

How much do you think (know?) a car like that costs after 6 and 12 months (what percentage of retail price)?

Is it worth it? Aren't first cars that hit the second-hand market the ones that had some pretty bad crashes already?

Or maybe I should really fly over the big water?
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:33 PM   #2
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I think it's time for me to learn Ruby On Rails.
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she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:19 PM   #3
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Well, at least these were the salaries I found on monster.com, in-and-around San Francisco and LA.

And yeah, Ruby On Rails pretty much rocks. Pleasure to write, pleasure to learn, pleasure when looking at bank account at the beginning of month (unless one wants to buy the best american car :( ). If you want some help with starting and have some questions, you know how to PM

But could we get to the point please?
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:15 PM   #4
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The Camaro isn't going to depreciate awfully fast until a couple years go by, is my guess. People are going to want them, they're going to sell new for more than MSRP, and nobody is going to get rid of them.
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she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:41 PM   #5
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my guess is by that time the camaro will STILL be marked up slightly. so... a used one will probaly come pretty close to MSRP if it hasnt been damaged.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:04 PM   #6
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I agree... it will be at least two years before you see any real depreciation. Remember this is a model year 2010... so it may be even longer than that.
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:01 PM   #7
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I think it's possible that someone may buy one in Feb...then when the Vert comes out in 9-12 months, or a possible 500+ HP V8 becomes available later, that some may be sold to get the newer models. One year may actually be a good time to buy a used Camaro. IMHO
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomash View Post
Yeah, title pretty much says it all, but let me introduce.

I'll be able to think about getting a Camaro somewhere around next summer, after I complete my masters degree and be able to work full-time.

Now salaries (and prices) in Poland are definitely lower than in the US and combined with VAT+car_import_tax+customs they all make getting a Camaro in Poland "a bit" tougher task than for someone working in the US.
Example with numbers? Here we go:
- RoR programmer in US (west coast area) earns 70,000-110,000 $ / year, thus making it possible to buy a Camaro in one year (for less than half his year net salary) while comfortably living.
- RoR programmer in Poland earns (calculating "raw" PLN-USD) 24,000-36,000 $ / year (although these salaries are net, i.e. with taxes already substracted), so buying a Camaro for 20-24k$ requires getting a 3-4 yr car credit whilst paying a bit below month's net salary every month.

I know I could fly to the US for this one "Camaro year" right after graduating, and RoR programmers seem welcome there. But it's quite a burden, especially with a) finding a job BEFORE flight and b) getting a work visa (and being treated like crap by the embassy employees), even with 1B form ("invitation for working tech/specialist") filled by my to-be employer .

So I'm thinking about getting a used one, especially taking into account that 6-12 months after Our Awaited February there should already be some on the second-hand market.

How much do you think (know?) a car like that costs after 6 and 12 months (what percentage of retail price)?

Is it worth it? Aren't first cars that hit the second-hand market the ones that had some pretty bad crashes already?

Or maybe I should really fly over the big water?
You picked one of the highest salaried areas of the US to compare to Poland. You also have to consider that the West coast of the US has a high cost of living also. So in other parts of the US the salary may be a lot closer to yours in Poland. Usually over here its not really practical to buy a used car thats only a year or two old because you can usually buy a new one for the same price, unless you can find someone who made a large down payment and now can't afford to keep the car. I'm sure a lot of people will lease thier new Camaros though, and after the lease is up there will be used ones showing up on used car lots and at the auto auctions.But that isn't going to happen for at least two years.
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:24 AM   #9
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Everything Txturbo says is true. Those people on the west coast making that much money don't get to keep most of it; by the time taxes and general cost of living come out, there's certainly not enough cash leftover to buy a car without a loan. Most people in the US get a 3 or 5 year loan on their car, and Camaro buyers will be no different.

Leases generally run 3 years, and demand will still be high when the first leases run out.

Is it common in Poland for people to buy cars with saved money instead of a loan?
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Removing weight has surprisingly little effect on fuel economy
Engine break-in procedure | Gear ratios
2002 GMC Sierra 4x4 5.3 (190,000 miles and going strong)
1980 Buick Lesabre family heirloom with 36,000 miles
2008 Volkswagen Rabbit 2 door I5-2.5 5spd DD lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
http://allOffTopic.com is the place for all the naughty stuff you can't get away with on this forum...
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:27 PM   #10
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Thanks, Txturbo! That made me reconsider both the "used Camaro" option and "moving to the US" one. Seems like I'll have to buy a new one.

Actually I've been asking about costs of living on the west coast and my friends told me somewhere around 1-1.2k$ (apartment with some flatmates, food, broadband etc.). Thought they weren't too high, at least with this range of salaries. I've been checking also the salaries in the NY area and they were pretty similar, but I'd really like to visit California finally. There aren't many jobs for RoR programmers besides California and NY, so I can't really relate.

Actually I did one mistake - checked out simulations of cash loans (with real interest rate somewhere around 27%), not of car loans (which have of course lower interest rate). Car loan simulation was a lot more friendly - with the same monthly payment (+/- 10%), I could pay back my Camaro in 3-4 years. And each year shaved off the credit time makes moving to the US less attractive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
Most people in the US get a 3 or 5 year loan on their car, and Camaro buyers will be no different.
It seems that one Camaro fan far away from the US will also be "no different"

Quote:
Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
Leases generally run 3 years, and demand will still be high when the first leases run out.
That's actually solving my whole dilemma. Maybe not the way I expected, but thanks for the info nevertheless

Quote:
Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
Is it common in Poland for people to buy cars with saved money instead of a loan?
No, the option of moving to the US was of course with getting a credit after about two months of living and working there.
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:56 AM   #11
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You're welcome......I lived in southern Calif. for a little over 4 years back in 87-91 and housing was very high. I got married there and we looked at houses and the average houses started at around 200K and went up from there. That same house in south Texas was about 1/2 that. I know people who have moved here from the east and west coast through work and they love how they can sell their old house and move here and buy a house 3 times as big and only spend 1/3 as much. So you have to be careful when comparing different areas of the US. Also, it probably would have been difficult to get a car loan after only being in the US for two months anyway.
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