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Old 11-19-2011, 02:07 AM   #6973
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Drinks are on me tonight.














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Old 11-19-2011, 09:36 AM   #6974
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Drinks are on me tonight.














Nice offer.....................at 3:07 am when we're all ASLEEEEEEEP



Oh, wait. Since it was 3:07 - technically morning - you meant tonight - tonight. Got it! I'll make sure the tab goes your way. And since we are meeting fbodfather, I'll incude his too. He is a lightweight but only drinks the super expensive stuff...............or is it the other way around?
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Old 11-19-2011, 12:49 PM   #6975
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Nice offer.....................at 3:07 am when we're all ASLEEEEEEEP



Oh, wait. Since it was 3:07 - technically morning - you meant tonight - tonight. Got it! I'll make sure the tab goes your way. And since we are meeting fbodfather, I'll include his too. He is a lightweight but only drinks the super expensive stuff...............or is it the other way around?
Deal, but only if you explain to him we are a pulley and tune away from 651.

If they don't fix this, how long is it going to take OldSchoolCamaro and #2.99 going dealer to dealer to change pullies and flash the new tune
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Old 11-19-2011, 04:24 PM   #6976
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Hahaha...like as Mae West said..."When I'm good I'm very good, but when I'm bad I'm better"... Mac...!

...as I risk as well, but I can't resist donning my ghille suit and letting a round go...then slip away......all's fair in love and war...and I love the Camaro.
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Nice offer.....................at 3:07 am when we're all ASLEEEEEEEP



Oh, wait. Since it was 3:07 - technically morning - you meant tonight - tonight. Got it! I'll make sure the tab goes your way. And since we are meeting fbodfather, I'll incude his too. He is a lightweight but only drinks the super expensive stuff...............or is it the other way around?
Number 3,
Please for the sake of many, if you could mention to your special dinner guest 2 little highly sought after items; 1LE and a Z28/LS7.
Thank You Kindly.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:18 PM   #6977
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Came back from 8 hours of house shopping. Tooootired to meet up with fbodfather :( but having drinks discussing houses with mrs. Number 3. Our house I'd sold so have to pick the new place.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:22 PM   #6978
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Came back from 8 hours of house shopping. Tooootired to meet up with fbodfather :( but having drinks discussing houses with mrs. Number 3. Our house I'd sold so have to pick the new place.
8 hrs of house shopping.......

I would be beat!
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:56 PM   #6979
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Question for those in the House of Z....

Why do you think the ZL1 is running the same 0-60 times as the CTS-V considering the weight and power advantage it has?

Im asking in here because no haters hang out in here....
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:59 PM   #6980
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Question for those in the House of Z....

Why do you think the ZL1 is running the same 0-60 times as the CTS-V considering the weight and power advantage it has?

Im asking in here because no haters hang out in here....
I was expecting a faster time, myself.....

I think Cadillac advertised a bit fast in that department...and the Camaro team a bit conservative? A 0-60 time as fast as the CTS-V's is difficult to change with modest alterations as it is...but maybe this one will actually be attainable?

And reproducible via PTM!
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:23 PM   #6981
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I have not taken the time to study the gearing car to car. That would be one place to explore. It could be that the Caddy is running a much lighter 19" wheel, but again I don't know the weights of the ZL1 rear wheel and tire compared to the CTS-V. I must admit I have been admiring the CTS-V coupe and was just under a 2009 CTS-V 4-dr looking at the suspension. I prefer the Camaro differential mounts on the Camaro. The CTS-V front aluminum sub-frame is good. It is going to take me some time to really understand the 0 - 60 times. Maybe #3 will be able to weigh in.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:17 AM   #6982
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I have not taken the time to study the gearing car to car. That would be one place to explore. It could be that the Caddy is running a much lighter 19" wheel, but again I don't know the weights of the ZL1 rear wheel and tire compared to the CTS-V. I must admit I have been admiring the CTS-V coupe and was just under a 2009 CTS-V 4-dr looking at the suspension. I prefer the Camaro differential mounts on the Camaro. The CTS-V front aluminum sub-frame is good. It is going to take me some time to really understand the 0 - 60 times. Maybe #3 will be able to weigh in.
A lot of factors to consider and I don't know the answer to some of them.

First, we've been talking about the HP bump from the CTS-V application. Was there also a significant torque bump?

Are the axle ratios the same?

Not only the wheel weight, but also the rolling diameter? Is the ZL1 trying to spin a larger wheel. Rotational Moment of Inertia or something like that.

Are the trans ratios the same? My guess is they are but I'm not sure.

Also, not just mass, but is the cross sectional area of the Camaro larger and is the Cd higher? At some point in a 0 - 60 aero will hit the bigger in size (I think) Camaro. This would also impact the 1/4 mile times and also the top end in a big way.

Also, if the Camaro has more down force aids (spoilers) to add downforce on the track this will also be like dragging a parachute through the air although a small one.

And in the end, the number GM posts are typically obtained by GM drivers that can be replicated. But I don't know if the V and ZL1 are using the same so you may get a 0 - 60 difference from that alone.

In the end, compare the 'ring times between the two. I think the ZL1 is a bit faster and that shows the total capapbility of the ZL1 relative to the V.

I wouldn't get hung up on 0 - 60 or top speed. I'm not sure that is the cars strong point. I think it is overall straight line and curved line performance.

Me, I'll go back to my point a while ago....................wait and see a comparion of the ZL1 to a Boss. Don't get hung up on what the car will do if you simply push your right foot to the floor. Focus on what happens when you brake, push in the clutch, and oh yeah, turn that round thing you are holding on to.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:32 AM   #6983
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My oldest daughter is a cheerleader, we live in Texas, Friday Night Lights Playoff Football. 92 - 59. She is smiling so I am.
...that's awesome Pete, I know how big Friday Night Lights Football is in TX...that's a special deal making to the playoffs, and a great father daughter experience...

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Deal, but only if you explain to him we are a pulley and tune away from 651.

If they don't fix this, how long is it going to take OldSchoolCamaro and #2.99 going dealer to dealer to change pullies and flash the new tune
Hahaa, my local dealer and a few others I suspect are tired of hearing from me , but, I think that's a foregone conclusion that will happen immediately...
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Number 3,
Please for the sake of many, if you could mention to your special dinner guest 2 little highly sought after items; 1LE and a Z28/LS7.
Thank You Kindly.

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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
8 hrs of house shopping.......

I would be beat!
...indeed, I bet #3 would attest to that fact.... ..hey, I spent from 8 AM to 5PM making Home Depot runs, fixing a broken dryer vent, replacing a kitchen light, and removing the burned up dishwasher from the kitchen, then rushing out for dinner with the fam and my daughters boyfriend for a combination celebration. Marathon day...gotta still get a new dishwasher..., rather be taking delivery of a new Camaro ZL1...or how about that Z28....???

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Im asking in here because no haters hang out in here....
LOL Mac......and that's one of the reasons why I love this place so much, well, other than for youse guys....

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I was expecting a faster time, myself.....

I think Cadillac advertised a bit fast in that department...and the Camaro team a bit conservative? A 0-60 time as fast as the CTS-V's is difficult to change with modest alterations as it is...but maybe this one will actually be attainable?

And reproducible via PTM!
I agree Joe in that it may have been conservative. Just by looking at the raw numbers between the two cars the ZL1 should have more of an advantage. The ZL1 launch may not have been given as much attention to dialing in the power and traction as was given to cornering and handling at race speed. The ZL1 appears to be more of a road racer than a drag racer, although it can fit both bills. I think the performance numbers may be a tad bit under rated...for whatever reason.

BTW this thread has just gone over 7,000 posts...
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:39 AM   #6984
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Perhaps this has been discussed, but is it simply the difference in tires between the CTS-V and ZL1 giving the CTS-V more grip? Lack of grip can be overcome on the ring with more hp, less weight, and more downforce but those things have a lower effect on straight line performance? This would mean bolt a set of those pilots to the ZL1 and ... WOW.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:03 AM   #6985
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[QUOTE=OldScoolCamaro;4048202BTW this thread has just gone over 7,000 posts... [/QUOTE]

That is quite the respectable milestone. I wonder if there is a correlation between civil discourse of ideas without challenging someones intelligence, loyalty or both that keeps this place going. I can say from my observations and participation here Shno's House only seems to attract those that want to have fair and intelligent conversations about Z things as well as drink selection for Friday and Saturday nights. Friendly places with good service seem to draw long term patronage.

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Perhaps this has been discussed, but is it simply the difference in tires between the CTS-V and ZL1 giving the CTS-V more grip? Lack of grip can be overcome on the ring with more hp, less weight, and more downforce but those things have a lower effect on straight line performance? This would mean bolt a set of those pilots to the ZL1 and ... WOW.
You bring up a really good point. Traction is huge differentiator in straight line performance. I believe the ZL1 has wider rubber than the V. Someone can check that. I don't think it's huge, but 305 vs.295? The other is how much traction control/launch control plays. Turn all that off and I think both cars will just sit there and make pretty clouds of smoke...mmmmmmmmmm burn outs.......so it's imply possible that the added power in the ZL1 is slightly offset by the need to control wheelspin to the point where there is little difference.

Annnnnnd I'll bring up the dirty subject of torque management. So before I go further, this is speculation and I don't know if this is true or not. But it is possible that if the transmission is the weak link that the ZL1 requires more management thus negating any increase over the engine in the CTS-V. One could determine this by simply confirming the manual in the ZL1 is the same as that in the ZR1 Corvette. And all Tremecs are not equal, I think there aer 4 of them. If all of GM's beasties (Z06, ZR1, ZL1, CTS-V) all share the same manual trans then this is a non-issue.

I believe GM's TC and Launch Control algoriths are intended to keep maximum tractive effort to the pavement. Spinning wheels gather no velocity.

This is also why I am less worried about the Mustang having 650 HP. At some point you need some pretty complex chassis controls (one of GM's strong suits) and as you point out, TIRES. I'll be really curious to see how they control/manage that and get enough traction down.

And we will also want to see torque curves. How do they compare down low.
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:24 AM   #6986
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Don't get hung up on what the car will do if you simply push your right foot to the floor. Focus on what happens when you brake, push in the clutch, and oh yeah, turn that round thing you are holding on to.
I was just curious, Im not getting hung up on it..... geesh





Im sure we will find out in due time, I have a feeling GM is being conservative with the numbers!

But of course I could be wrong.......
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