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Old 10-16-2013, 12:17 PM   #13676
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Getting closer to your under 7:30 comment....

"Oppenheiser notes. He says the car posted 7:31.9 in dry testing, although that is not considered an official time because cameras were not rolling."
I don't think I've ever thought Z/28 would break the '30s, and it's not that what GM has officially released is bad at all, but a low '30s is what I thought would be a reasonable expectation, all things considered.

I'm looking forward to more info'
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:21 PM   #13677
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I'm looking forward to more info'
Trust me I am digging....


But I have a feeling you already know what I will find....
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #13678
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Trust me I am digging....


But I have a feeling you already know what I will find....


Let's just say I guess well.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:45 PM   #13679
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Let's just say I guess well.
Yeah, we will go with that.



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Old 10-16-2013, 09:01 PM   #13680
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So the Z/28 section is now so busy that The House falls rapidly to the middle of the page. Nice!

But let's recap the recent events.

A video gets posted with a 9:37 placing it in rare company.

With the sound on and not giving a crap about the clock, the sound track is pure, absolute, unadulterated, awesomeness. This reminds me of my Ducati 916 with the carbon exhaust. I used to ride it around just to hear it. I would do the same with this car and I would want to do it every day.

GM also declares the time is not THE time. It is actually slower than THE time because the track was wet and windshield wipers slow the car down or some such nonsense. So there is or will be more to come. So we are victims to GMs marketing machine that has even the Honda Civic website ablaze with love and hate. This will only be duplicated when and if GM goes BACK to the 'ring and runs a 7:31 moving well up the chart. Part of me feels like a sucker because we got sucked in only to be sucked in again later. Yes, I fell for it too.

We are still waiting on 2 simple and key pieces of information that will either clarify this or fragment this discussion.

The first is the price of the Z/28. We and many speculate this will not be a cheap car and may be in the $70,000 plus rang. Which relative to the cars the Z/28 lives next to on the LIST will make that seem cheap by comparison.

But the 2nd piece of information, and perhaps one GM may be withholding (and I say this because the car is for sale and we don't know the 'ring time) is the C7 Z51. Here is a car that is in the middle 50s and is a pure wonderment in it's own right. If the Z51 runs the ring at or about the same time as the Z/28 will that diminish what the Z/28 is????? And is that why GM has not posted Z51 'ring time? Not a conspiracy theorist by nature, but I'm guessing we are seeing the result of marketing at play here.

So now what do you pick in that case? A rare and expensive Camaro that even GM says you SHOULDN'T drive every day or a car that has all the refinement you could want and can run with the other car all day? I worked on Corvette. I've driven a lot of Corvettes. I can't imagine that the Z51, only a tick behind a Z06, can't run with the Z/28.

So for me those are the two questions left to be answered. The Z vs. THE Z. But a winning lotto ticket would make that a moot point now wouldn't it?
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:08 PM   #13681
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Is it too late for me to buy a lottery ticket?
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #13682
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Is it too late for me to buy a lottery ticket?
I bought mine on the home tonight. So the odds I get Z/28 ANNNNND a C7 Z51 are about 1 in 175,000,000. Seems legit.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:04 PM   #13683
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Yes that is the dilemma, a Z/28 or a Z51. Doing the math (based on what we know) the 2 seem very close in 0-60, 1/4 mile, G's and braking. The BIG difference is the lower weight of the Z51. I think the Z51 will have a slightly better ring time...and lower price.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:07 PM   #13684
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I bought mine on the home tonight. So the odds I get Z/28 ANNNNND a C7 Z51 are about 1 in 175,000,000. Seems legit.
I tried to buy online, but that is only in Illinois. I didn't want to be left out so I drove down to the nearest gas station. If I win, What color C7 Z51 do you want?
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:10 PM   #13685
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I tried to buy online, but that is only in Illinois. I didn't want to be left out so I drove down to the nearest gas station. If I win, What color C7 Z51 do you want?
I don't care. I'll take the lotto leftovers any day and not complain a single bit.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:15 PM   #13686
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...without reading much here most recently and jumping in to post after watching the video <several times> with much glee, I want to say, I hope they dont price the Z/28 too far out beyond the ZL1....because the marketing and pre-production talk may not ad up to a position where the Z/28 is that much higher in step over the ZL1 that will command the MSRP. I am not trying to knock it <or be a heretic>....I love it...but pictures and stats speak a thousand words..
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:46 PM   #13687
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...oh BTW I wanted to ad that on Monday I sat in a 2014 1LE SS Camaro with Recaro seats, micro fiber.....nice! I am on the svelt <thin> side and I fit nicely. Nice feel and wrap around affect. Now the down side, if one is hefty or on the larger side you won't fit into them. Just sayin.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:56 PM   #13688
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...oh BTW I wanted to ad that on Monday I sat in a 2014 1LE SS Camaro with Recaro seats, micro fiber.....nice! I am on the svelt <thin> side and I fit nicely. Nice feel and wrap around affect. Now the down side, if one is hefty or on the larger side you won't fit into them. Just sayin.
Oh I'll fit...yeah if a big guy wants to, he'll fit.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:11 AM   #13689
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Oh I'll fit...yeah if a big guy wants to, he'll fit.
I am 6'2" 260 ish... it wasn't my waste line it was my shoulder width that was the problem. :sly:

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Old 10-17-2013, 09:30 PM   #13690
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Oh I'll fit...yeah if a big guy wants to, he'll fit.
...atta boy! That's the attitude! FWIW get the racing harness then...just sayin...., fasten up and ride....
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I am 6'2" 260 ish... it wasn't my waste line it was my shoulder width that was the problem. :sly:\Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
..dude, then I am afraid you are SOL on these seats bro...unless you get a shoe horn and really strap up tight with a racing harness in the Recaro seat..... . But this ride aint for comfort........its for speed yo....
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:25 PM   #13691
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Are the Z/28 LS7's pistons true forged?

After reading the changes to the LS7 are the pistons now truly forged? If so this version of the LS7 is very, very stout.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:40 PM   #13692
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3.8 seconds per lap may not seem like much, but after a 25 lap race, that 1:30 difference. On a 50 lap race that stretches to 3:16. That's an eternity in racing terms. For the weekend warrior, that my be exactly what draws them to the Z.
Enjoy. Great job GM.
If you are a weekend warrior you are not going to run stock tires on it. You ARE going to put a helmet on. You are going to put good gas in it. You are going to belt yourself in. You ARE going to compete. If you truly are a competitor. You're not going to run weak tires, etc. GM stripped it down and jacked up the price based on speed based on reduced weight? OK. I get it. Put some good tires on the ZL1 for a decent comp. Fair? Nothing against the new edition either. Just saying lets compare when/can with simple tire equality. Then lets see if the weight reduction, engine, and rotor setup really cleans up the "Legend" or not.

PS: Just a response to above comments.... seems like he is focused on the ZL1. The z28 is still DYNOMITE!
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:00 PM   #13693
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If you are a weekend warrior you are not going to run stock tires on it. You ARE going to put a helmet on. You are going to put good gas in it. You are going to belt yourself in. You ARE going to compete. If you truly are a competitor. You're not going to run weak tires, etc. GM stripped it down and jacked up the price based on speed based on reduced weight? OK. I get it. Put some good tires on the ZL1 for a decent comp. Fair? Nothing against the new edition either. Just saying lets compare when/can with simple tire equality. Then lets see if the weight reduction, engine, and rotor setup really cleans up the "Legend" or not.

PS: Just a response to above comments.... seems like he is focused on the ZL1. The z28 is still DYNOMITE!
Let's be more complete in our thinking. He mentioned 25 & 50 laps. There's more to it than tires when your going to do 25 or 50 laps.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:01 PM   #13694
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If you are a weekend warrior you are not going to run stock tires on it. You ARE going to put a helmet on. You are going to put good gas in it. You are going to belt yourself in. You ARE going to compete. If you truly are a competitor. You're not going to run weak tires, etc. GM stripped it down and jacked up the price based on speed based on reduced weight? OK. I get it. Put some good tires on the ZL1 for a decent comp. Fair? Nothing against the new edition either. Just saying lets compare when/can with simple tire equality. Then lets see if the weight reduction, engine, and rotor setup really cleans up the "Legend" or not.

PS: Just a response to above comments.... seems like he is focused on the ZL1. The z28 is still DYNOMITE!
No it's not fair because that's not how GM built the car.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:37 PM   #13695
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If you are a weekend warrior you are not going to run stock tires on it. You ARE going to put a helmet on. You are going to put good gas in it. You are going to belt yourself in. You ARE going to compete. If you truly are a competitor. You're not going to run weak tires, etc. GM stripped it down and jacked up the price based on speed based on reduced weight? OK. I get it. Put some good tires on the ZL1 for a decent comp. Fair? Nothing against the new edition either. Just saying lets compare when/can with simple tire equality. Then lets see if the weight reduction, engine, and rotor setup really cleans up the "Legend" or not.

PS: Just a response to above comments.... seems like he is focused on the ZL1. The z28 is still DYNOMITE!
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Based on our experience with the 305 setup we created in 2009 we know that 305s are good for 2.7 seconds at Gingerman. Those are RE-11s and the Trofeo is a street legal slick good for another 2.

Best possible ZL1 Ring time with ideal weather and Trofeos 7:41:47 - 5 seconds = 7:36.47

Best Possible Z/28 Ring time with ideal weather 7:37.4 - 8.5 seconds =7:28.9

55 degree overcast skies with a damp track suck the life out of the Trofeo tires. When I say damp I don't mean rain wet. I mean an over cast track on a cool day never gets as dry as it would on a 65 degree sunny day. Rain wet is much worse. The report from Al O states they already ran a 6 second faster lap without video. Get the same car and driver out under the right conditions and I say the time is low 29s or high 28s.

Time will tell.
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Let's be more complete in our thinking. He mentioned 25 & 50 laps. There's more to it than tires when your going to do 25 or 50 laps.
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No it's not fair because that's not how GM built the car.
The ZL1 brakes are quite good and can handle by my guestimate about 10 laps before they begin to fade away if the driver is running hard. The inter-cooler is pretty effective, but at some point on track heat soak will become an issue. In a 25 lap event at the Ring the Z/28 brakes will be the same on lap 3 as they are on lap 25 or 50. Why lap 3? CC brakes love heat. Based on brakes alone the Z/28 would win by a significant margin. All LS motors are furnaces. The LS7 should hold more off the baseline HP longer than the LSA in the ZL1.

Add CC brakes and 305 rubber to the ZL1 and the ZL1 gets faster. More from the tires than the brakes. CC brakes on the ZL1 will eliminate brake fade for the longer runs. The ZL1 gains 5 seconds on the Z/28.

Tires. The Z/28 runs Trofeo 305/30/19s. The Z/28 with less nose weight and lighter overall will be easier on tires. The last five laps will be telling. The hotter greasier tires on the ZL1 will slow the ZL1 down. While the ZL1 tires are fading the Z/28 drop off will not be as great. The Z/28 pull away on each of the last five laps for no other reason than tires.

There are other differences. The Z/28 aero creates down force and increases corning speeds. The ZL1 aero is more about preventing lioft than creating down force.

The Z/28 differential is intended for road course work. The ZL1 cast iron diff is tough as nails, but not as good at putting power down in the corners.

Two very competent automobiles. One is a hybrid grand touring / muscle car. The other is a hybrid track / street car. Both are at the top of thier class
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #13696
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The ZL1 brakes are quite good and can handle by my guestimate about 10 laps before they begin to fade away if the driver is running hard. The inter-cooler is pretty effective, but at some point on track heat soak will become an issue. In a 25 lap event at the Ring the Z/28 brakes will be the same on lap 3 as they are on lap 25 or 50. Why lap 3? CC brakes love heat. Based on brakes alone the Z/28 would win by a significant margin. All LS motors are furnaces. The LS7 should hold more off the baseline HP longer than the LSA in the ZL1.

Add CC brakes and 305 rubber to the ZL1 and the ZL1 gets faster. More from the tires than the brakes. CC brakes on the ZL1 will eliminate brake fade for the longer runs. The ZL1 gains 5 seconds on the Z/28.

Tires. The Z/28 runs Trofeo 305/30/19s. The Z/28 with less nose weight and lighter overall will be easier on tires. The last five laps will be telling. The hotter greasier tires on the ZL1 will slow the ZL1 down. While the ZL1 tires are fading the Z/28 drop off will not be as great. The Z/28 pull away on each of the last five laps for no other reason than tires.

There are other differences. The Z/28 aero creates down force and increases corning speeds. The ZL1 aero is more about preventing lioft than creating down force.

The Z/28 differential is intended for road course work. The ZL1 cast iron diff is tough as nails, but not as good at putting power down in the corners.

Two very competent automobiles. One is a hybrid grand touring / muscle car. The other is a hybrid track / street car. Both are at the top of thier class
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:31 AM   #13697
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So from what we know today, are you more excited, less excited or unchanged on the Z/28?

We only have one thing left and that's price.

I think the failure thus far was posting a time and then going, "but it's really faster".

Thus far I don't see anything to make me think less of the car. It's only a question of affordability relative to the C7. I am pretty sure the C7 Z06/07 will be unobtainium for my wallet.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:17 PM   #13698
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A media outlet mat have told GM they were running a story on the lap time with or without input and GM decided it was best to get ahead of the story.

Maybe the project is behind with Ring runs. TEAM Camaro is going to be running the Z/28 with various media outlets over the fall and winter so they didn't have the luxury of waiting for spring to come and another Ring run.

My excitement level has not changed. I think the Z/28 is a great car and a showcase for TEAM Camaro. The closer it gets to production, the more excited I'll be. I can't wait to get my hands on one to do our own before and after.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #13699
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So from what we know today, are you more excited, less excited or unchanged on the Z/28?

We only have one thing left and that's price.

I think the failure thus far was posting a time and then going, "but it's really faster".

Thus far I don't see anything to make me think less of the car. It's only a question of affordability relative to the C7. I am pretty sure the C7 Z06/07 will be unobtainium for my wallet.
I'm excited that it's becoming more and more a reality after all the years of our conversations regarding it. I concur with the rest of your comments. I do wish that a Z51 widebody was available (ala GS).
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:35 PM   #13700
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I'm still excited for the car. In stock form, it's a beast but when it gets in people's hands and they start throwing cams and long tubes on, it will be a hell of a car.
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