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Old 10-22-2009, 01:46 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1camaro70 View Post
L99 tune 22 HP, 42 Ft.Lb. torque for $200 to $300, is great buy, some have shown tune plus headers adds only 4 HP, will be watching for Vararam results or any other CAI, but will they add over tune, CAI for $400 10HP, 10 torque, tune wins.
Absolutely, but to continue to play devil's advocate:

1)If an added 120 HP from an engine upgrade (V6 to V8) gains only tenths of a second, 20HP gain will do almost nothing. (IE. DON'T BUY THESE THINGS FOR ADDED POWER, because it's trivial)

2)From what I'm really hearing is that unless you plan to add a major modification (which >98% WILL NOT) minor upgrades like CAI and headers are cosmetic mods only.

3) The weigh difference Change in the V6 vs V8 camaro is only 2.8% but the power difference is 28%. If the power to wt ratio idea held up, we should see a BIG performance difference because the weight change is trivial but power increase is huge!
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:49 PM   #36
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I'd say buy your aftermarket stuff to personalize your car and enjoy it! Take Power gains with a grain of salt. Buy the CAI that looks cool to you and the exhaust that sounds good to you and don't worry about the numbers!!!
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:06 PM   #37
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Because it's more than just hp. Vehicle weight and unsprung weight have a huge impact on performance. The SS weighs 3860 lbs, the V6 weighs 3750 lbs. The SS also has big heavy wheels; it takes horsepower to get that weight moving. The V6 has smaller lighter wheels which make it easier to get up to speed. Gearing also plays a part in acceleration.

Power to weight ratio (PWR) is what you really want to look at as opposed to just the horsepower. If you start reducing unsprung weight on the V6 that car is going to start getting fast; it already has a decent amount of power actually.
People with the RS package (which is most people) have the same tires. reguardless for having a v8 or v6
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
Absolutely, but to continue to play devil's advocate:

1)If an added 120 HP from an engine upgrade (V6 to V8) gains only tenths of a second, 20HP gain will do almost nothing. (IE. DON'T BUY THESE THINGS FOR ADDED POWER, because it's trivial)
I'm confused, the quickest stock SS is in the 12s and so far it seems V6s are in the low to mid 14s. That's a lot of tenths.
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:26 PM   #39
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I'm confused, the quickest stock SS is in the 12s and so far it seems V6s are in the low to mid 14s. That's a lot of tenths.
Yeah, the difference between the V6 and V8 is significant.
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:27 PM   #40
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^lol +1
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:38 PM   #41
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I'm with you. I love the z06. I hoping to get one in early spring.
I miss my Z06 . But, gotta send the kids to school.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:18 PM   #42
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You stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
...The Horsepower between the cars above varies more than 120HP and yet the performace of each of these cars varies only by tenths of seconds in a quarter mile and maybe less in a 0-60 run. (WITH OVER A HUNDRED HORSEPOWER IN DIFFERENCE)!!!
drtwo -

This is a great thread you started, but the base premise is somewhat misleading. The data below is an "average" from multiple magazine articles, i.e. Car and Driver, Edmunds, etc.

For example when Car and Driver tested both models here were the numbers:

V-6 0-60 5.9 seconds
1/4 14.5 seconds at 99 mph

V-8 0-60 4.6-4.8 seconds (Auto and Manual Combined
1/4 13.0/13.1 at 111/109 mph (again Auto and Manual Combined)

The variance in the 1/4 mile is not tenths, it is 1.4/1.5 seconds and 10 mph and again in the 0-60 times it is a full second+. That is the 120 hp difference.

Now using software such as Desktop Drag, DragSim here is the difference that some simple bolt ons/good power tune could be worth: (This would be similar to 1Camaro70's post #34 above for $200-$300)

2010 Camaro SS L99 Auto

Stock:
400 hp, 410 lb-ft, 3900 lbs 0-60 5.2, 1/4 mile 13.21 @ 109.6 mph

With Tune and/or simple /CAI-Exhaust Mods:
425 hp, 441 lb-ft, 3900 lbs 0-60 4.9, 1/4 mile 12.91 @ 112.6 mph

These seem to line up pretty well with the "average" times being posted on the site. Overall increase: HP +25, TQ +31; 1/4 mile 3 tenths and 3 mph.

No argument, just some numbers for everyone to think about. There is an appreciable difference in performance with simple bolt-ons. In the end, it's what each enthusiast wants to do to make it "their" Camaro.

P.S. drtwo, I am envious. You have both a Camaro AND a VRod !!
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:54 PM   #43
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Any comments?!
Yeah...bring your car over and I'll show you the difference mods can make...but you'll have to catch me first.
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:24 PM   #44
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If you have ever drag raced you will know a few tenths is a big difference, and a second is huge. If you have not then I understand why you think the tenth here and there is no difference.
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:26 PM   #45
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If you have ever drag raced you will know a few tenths is a big difference, and a second is huge. If you have not then I understand why you think the tenth here and there is no difference.
That really sums it up.
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:27 PM   #46
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If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Why do you paint your house..or add more ram to you computer? Why buy a camaro..plenty of cars are cheaper and will get the job done?
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:38 PM   #47
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If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Why do you paint your house..or add more ram to you computer? Why buy a camaro..plenty of cars are cheaper and will get the job done?
thanks MarylandSpeed, but a little insulting.... I DO get it, but YOU, as a vendor, may be a bit biased. I've written several times that personalization is absolutely cool! But I'm hoping that vendors(no I'm not saying you) not pass off mods as big performance gainers because as we see...they are NOT. These small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains. It seems exponential HP gains are needed to get any significant performance change.

95% of us will not add a turbo or NOS or supercharger or change the cam or other semi-major mods. So we will NOT gain much of anything in the way of performance by simply adding a $400 CAI or $1200 cat-back exhaust. (if you plan to go on and add major engine changes in the future, then disregard this thread)

So I DO get it, but maybe am trying to help the AVERAGE (95% of us) Camaro owner who is duped by quick fix items to 'go faster'! The AVERAGE owner is not going to be racing his car weekly, so tenths of seconds ARE worthless. Especially when it costs thousands to get it.

Mods won't really make you go faster, but they sure can look or sound cool. So if we simply agree that it's good to personalize a car, but don't get misled into thinking that (m)any of these simple mods will make your Camaro a race car...
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:50 PM   #48
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thanks MarylandSpeed, but a little insulting.... I DO get it, but YOU, as a vendor, may be a bit biased. I've written several times that personalization is absolutely cool! But I'm hoping that vendors(no I'm not saying you) not pass off mods as big performance gainers because as we see...they are NOT. These small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains. It seems exponential HP gains are needed to get any significant performance change.

95% of us will not add a turbo or NOS or supercharger or change the cam or other semi-major mods. So we will NOT gain much of anything in the way of performance by simply adding a $400 CAI or $1200 cat-back exhaust. (if you plan to go on and add major engine changes in the future, then disregard this thread)

So I DO get it, but maybe am trying to help the AVERAGE (95% of us) Camaro owner who is duped by quick fix items to 'go faster'! The AVERAGE owner is not going to be racing his car weekly, so tenths of seconds ARE worthless. Especially when it costs thousands to get it.

Mods won't really make you go faster, but they sure can look or sound cool. So if we simply agree that it's good to personalize a car, but don't get misled into thinking that (m)any of these mods will make your Camaro a race car...
What your saying is your find with a stock car and that's okay. But, to a lot of people gaining 8, 10, 20 hp is a big deal. It's more than you stocker and you will see an improvement. For someone like you I would say it's not a big deal ,but don't try to rain on our picnic just because you don't care about performance. I've won and lost a lot of races by just a couple of tens. No mod is really ment for the street no matter how small. You can only drive 65 in most states.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:32 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
thanks MarylandSpeed, but a little insulting.... I DO get it, but YOU, as a vendor, may be a bit biased. I've written several times that personalization is absolutely cool! But I'm hoping that vendors(no I'm not saying you) not pass off mods as big performance gainers because as we see...they are NOT. These small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains. It seems exponential HP gains are needed to get any significant performance change.

95% of us will not add a turbo or NOS or supercharger or change the cam or other semi-major mods. So we will NOT gain much of anything in the way of performance by simply adding a $400 CAI or $1200 cat-back exhaust. (if you plan to go on and add major engine changes in the future, then disregard this thread)

So I DO get it, but maybe am trying to help the AVERAGE (95% of us) Camaro owner who is duped by quick fix items to 'go faster'! The AVERAGE owner is not going to be racing his car weekly, so tenths of seconds ARE worthless. Especially when it costs thousands to get it.

Mods won't really make you go faster, but they sure can look or sound cool. So if we simply agree that it's good to personalize a car, but don't get misled into thinking that (m)any of these simple mods will make your Camaro a race car...
Seriously...I doubt ANYONE ever thought that a cat back and CAI intake would make their car a 'race car'.

Your use of the word exponential is wrong in this case, I think. I'm up approximately 100rwhp from stock...and there's major differences in the performance of my car.

Additionally...a couple of thousand in suspension parts and pieces will CERTAINLY alter the performance characteristics of the camaro. A set of $500 sway bars even provides a noticeable difference.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:33 PM   #50
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Now that I have your attention:

A V6 2010 Camaro has around 304HP
An SS 2010 Camaro has 426HP
A 2009 Pontiac G8 v8 has 361HP

WHY do we spend big $$ on a small 8-10HP gain from a catback exahust, cold air intake etc.. that will increase our overall HP FARRRRR less than the simple difference in HP gain from a V6 to a V8?

The Horsepower between the cars above varies more than 120HP and yet the performace of each of these cars varies only by tenths of seconds in a quarter mile and maybe less in a 0-60 run. (WITH OVER A HUNDRED HORSEPOWER IN DIFFERENCE)!!!

These modifications look good and sound good, but there seems to be no actualized difference in the cold air intake performance in real life. Although I VERY much appreciate the science and time to test the products!!! Great JOb!

I'd say buy your aftermarket stuff to personalize your car and enjoy it! Take Power gains with a grain of salt. Buy the CAI that looks cool to you and the exhaust that sounds good to you and don't worry about the numbers!!!

If you want real performace gains: you'll have to get a turbo or supercharger or some other extreme engine modification.

Any comments?!
Yes........ Wake up.....
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:51 PM   #51
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If you own a 2010 SS and don't feel the need to modify............... you need to look down and see if the fella's are still hanging........
I like your style.
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