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Old 10-22-2009, 03:54 PM   #43
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Any comments?!
Yeah...bring your car over and I'll show you the difference mods can make...but you'll have to catch me first.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:24 PM   #44
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If you have ever drag raced you will know a few tenths is a big difference, and a second is huge. If you have not then I understand why you think the tenth here and there is no difference.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:26 PM   #45
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If you have ever drag raced you will know a few tenths is a big difference, and a second is huge. If you have not then I understand why you think the tenth here and there is no difference.
That really sums it up.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:27 PM   #46
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If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Why do you paint your house..or add more ram to you computer? Why buy a camaro..plenty of cars are cheaper and will get the job done?
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:38 PM   #47
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If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Why do you paint your house..or add more ram to you computer? Why buy a camaro..plenty of cars are cheaper and will get the job done?
thanks MarylandSpeed, but a little insulting.... I DO get it, but YOU, as a vendor, may be a bit biased. I've written several times that personalization is absolutely cool! But I'm hoping that vendors(no I'm not saying you) not pass off mods as big performance gainers because as we see...they are NOT. These small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains. It seems exponential HP gains are needed to get any significant performance change.

95% of us will not add a turbo or NOS or supercharger or change the cam or other semi-major mods. So we will NOT gain much of anything in the way of performance by simply adding a $400 CAI or $1200 cat-back exhaust. (if you plan to go on and add major engine changes in the future, then disregard this thread)

So I DO get it, but maybe am trying to help the AVERAGE (95% of us) Camaro owner who is duped by quick fix items to 'go faster'! The AVERAGE owner is not going to be racing his car weekly, so tenths of seconds ARE worthless. Especially when it costs thousands to get it.

Mods won't really make you go faster, but they sure can look or sound cool. So if we simply agree that it's good to personalize a car, but don't get misled into thinking that (m)any of these simple mods will make your Camaro a race car...
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:50 PM   #48
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thanks MarylandSpeed, but a little insulting.... I DO get it, but YOU, as a vendor, may be a bit biased. I've written several times that personalization is absolutely cool! But I'm hoping that vendors(no I'm not saying you) not pass off mods as big performance gainers because as we see...they are NOT. These small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains. It seems exponential HP gains are needed to get any significant performance change.

95% of us will not add a turbo or NOS or supercharger or change the cam or other semi-major mods. So we will NOT gain much of anything in the way of performance by simply adding a $400 CAI or $1200 cat-back exhaust. (if you plan to go on and add major engine changes in the future, then disregard this thread)

So I DO get it, but maybe am trying to help the AVERAGE (95% of us) Camaro owner who is duped by quick fix items to 'go faster'! The AVERAGE owner is not going to be racing his car weekly, so tenths of seconds ARE worthless. Especially when it costs thousands to get it.

Mods won't really make you go faster, but they sure can look or sound cool. So if we simply agree that it's good to personalize a car, but don't get misled into thinking that (m)any of these mods will make your Camaro a race car...
What your saying is your find with a stock car and that's okay. But, to a lot of people gaining 8, 10, 20 hp is a big deal. It's more than you stocker and you will see an improvement. For someone like you I would say it's not a big deal ,but don't try to rain on our picnic just because you don't care about performance. I've won and lost a lot of races by just a couple of tens. No mod is really ment for the street no matter how small. You can only drive 65 in most states.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:32 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
thanks MarylandSpeed, but a little insulting.... I DO get it, but YOU, as a vendor, may be a bit biased. I've written several times that personalization is absolutely cool! But I'm hoping that vendors(no I'm not saying you) not pass off mods as big performance gainers because as we see...they are NOT. These small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains. It seems exponential HP gains are needed to get any significant performance change.

95% of us will not add a turbo or NOS or supercharger or change the cam or other semi-major mods. So we will NOT gain much of anything in the way of performance by simply adding a $400 CAI or $1200 cat-back exhaust. (if you plan to go on and add major engine changes in the future, then disregard this thread)

So I DO get it, but maybe am trying to help the AVERAGE (95% of us) Camaro owner who is duped by quick fix items to 'go faster'! The AVERAGE owner is not going to be racing his car weekly, so tenths of seconds ARE worthless. Especially when it costs thousands to get it.

Mods won't really make you go faster, but they sure can look or sound cool. So if we simply agree that it's good to personalize a car, but don't get misled into thinking that (m)any of these simple mods will make your Camaro a race car...
Seriously...I doubt ANYONE ever thought that a cat back and CAI intake would make their car a 'race car'.

Your use of the word exponential is wrong in this case, I think. I'm up approximately 100rwhp from stock...and there's major differences in the performance of my car.

Additionally...a couple of thousand in suspension parts and pieces will CERTAINLY alter the performance characteristics of the camaro. A set of $500 sway bars even provides a noticeable difference.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:33 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
Now that I have your attention:

A V6 2010 Camaro has around 304HP
An SS 2010 Camaro has 426HP
A 2009 Pontiac G8 v8 has 361HP

WHY do we spend big $$ on a small 8-10HP gain from a catback exahust, cold air intake etc.. that will increase our overall HP FARRRRR less than the simple difference in HP gain from a V6 to a V8?

The Horsepower between the cars above varies more than 120HP and yet the performace of each of these cars varies only by tenths of seconds in a quarter mile and maybe less in a 0-60 run. (WITH OVER A HUNDRED HORSEPOWER IN DIFFERENCE)!!!

These modifications look good and sound good, but there seems to be no actualized difference in the cold air intake performance in real life. Although I VERY much appreciate the science and time to test the products!!! Great JOb!

I'd say buy your aftermarket stuff to personalize your car and enjoy it! Take Power gains with a grain of salt. Buy the CAI that looks cool to you and the exhaust that sounds good to you and don't worry about the numbers!!!

If you want real performace gains: you'll have to get a turbo or supercharger or some other extreme engine modification.

Any comments?!
Yes........ Wake up.....
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:51 PM   #51
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If you own a 2010 SS and don't feel the need to modify............... you need to look down and see if the fella's are still hanging........
I like your style.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:53 PM   #52
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What your saying is your find with a stock car and that's okay. But, to a lot of people gaining 8, 10, 20 hp is a big deal. It's more than you stocker and you will see an improvement. For someone like you I would say it's not a big deal ,but don't try to rain on our picnic just because you don't care about performance. I've won and lost a lot of races by just a couple of tens. No mod is really ment for the street no matter how small. You can only drive 65 in most states.
I'm not sure how I am raining on your parade. I've said that MOST of us don't race our cars (formally), but if you do, then mod away for your tenths of a second!!! SPEND, SPEND AWAY!!!

Not sure why you 'racers' are getting all bent out of shape? I'm not insulting you, or calling you stupid or having you justify your spending. To you, small performance gain may be worth it! To me, (and to be honest, most of us) these are essentially cosmetic gains only. SOOOOOOOO.....

So don't pick a CAI based on the HP gain or exhaust based on Power increase because it doesn't really matter. Maybe I'm sort of standing up for all of the runner up's of the CAI dyno challenge or the exhaust system that didn't perform quite as well, but sounds better. Get what is cool, not what has the extra 2 HP on the dyno... cause 2 HP aint SH!%

If you feel the need to insult me as if I 'don't get it' or that I need to 'check my stuff' or whatever, you feel free. But I think that I do get it.

BTW I know who I am NOT buying my mods from...
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:05 PM   #53
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I like this thread. Very interesting. About 20 years ago I noticed a message on the back of a early Pro Street (remember those) Vega sitting in the staging lanes. The message said "Low Performance Vehicles Are For Low Performance Minds". Enough said.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:10 PM   #54
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I like this thread. Very interesting. About 20 years ago I noticed a message on the back of a early Pro Street (remember those) Vega sitting in the staging lanes. The message said "Low Performance Vehicles Are For Low Performance Minds". Enough said.
Seriously...
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:12 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
...These small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains. It seems exponential HP gains are needed to get any significant performance change.

...Mods won't really make you go faster, but they sure can look or sound cool. So if we simply agree that it's good to personalize a car, but don't get misled into thinking that (m)any of these simple mods will make your Camaro a race car...

[Note: I am not a vendor of any kind, just an enthusiast like you and the others that make up this Camaro5 community.]

Your opinion and position are very respected - and I really mean that.

I completely agree with you that forced induction can reap huge gains but at a significant cost and that most here will not do it.

I do agree to disagree based on the phrases "Mods won't really make you go faster" or "small HP increases do not equal correlative performance gains".

Simple mods WILL make your car proportionally faster and many are very affordable. Reference data in post #43 above. As far as relative cost here are a few ways to look at it:

Base of what people paid per HP for their Camaro:
New LT V-6 304 HP, MSRP $22,995 => $75/hp
New SS V-8 Manual 426HP, MSRP $30,995 => $72.75/hp
New SS V-8 Auto 400HP, MSRP $31,990 => $80/hp

Cost of GMPP Horsepower:
New L99/LS3 Engine 430HP, MSRP $7,441 (JEGS) => $17.30/hp
Performance tune as in post #34 above 22HP, $300 => $13.63/hp
Cold Air Intake (refer to independent testing thread - http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48202 pretty informative) - 16 RWHP => 20 FWHP, $469 => $23.45/hp

It looks like there exists some simple performance bolt-ons that are proportional in cost to GMPP horsepower or a great "bang for the buck".

The one thing that is true regardless of the reasons why - and that there are a lot of new products being developed for the Camaro platform which in the long run is good for us, the enthusiasts. More choices at better prices. Gotta love free market...
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:16 PM   #56
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BTW I know who I am NOT buying my mods from...
Hey -

Just saw this post of yours. Hope you didn't get burnt on parts by anyone on this site. That would suck regardless... :(
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