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Old 10-23-2009, 03:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
Now that I have your attention:

IF YOU ROUTINELY RACE YOUR CAR THEN PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS THREAD OR REPLY AS IT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU!!!

A V6 2010 Camaro has around 304HP
An SS 2010 Camaro has 426HP
A 2009 Pontiac G8 v8 has 361HP

WHY do we spend big $$ on a small 8-10HP gain from a catback exhaust, cold air intake etc.. that will increase our overall HP FARRRRR less than the simple difference in HP gain from a V6 to a V8?

The Horsepower between the cars above varies more than 120HP and yet the performance of each of these cars varies only by tenths of seconds in a quarter mile and maybe less in a 0-60 run. (WITH OVER A HUNDRED HORSEPOWER IN DIFFERENCE)!!!

These modifications look good and sound good, but there seems to be no actualized difference in the cold air intake performance in real life. Although I VERY much appreciate the science and time to test the products!!! Great JOb!

I'd say buy your aftermarket stuff to personalize your car and enjoy it! Take Power gains with a grain of salt. Buy the CAI that looks cool to you and the exhaust that sounds good to you and don't worry about the numbers!!!

If you want real performance gains: you'll have to get a turbo or supercharger or some other extreme engine modification.

Any comments?!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! all that talk about CAI's was and is still a joke. Either way your going to pay $400+ for 10hp avg? Worst yet you won't even feel it lol money well spent eh? $400 will buy about 10 full tanks of gas and I will enjoy my Stock Camaro SS just as much. I don't even look under the hood that much to even enjoy a CAI lol puts to many finger prints on the paint, now I have to clean it again. To each their own for sure though.
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:59 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by HaveBlue View Post
Because no matter how good it is. Nobody likes STOCK. This is America, we want to change it (dont mean that obama change thing)
I love everything stock about my Camaro! 100% American right here!

Okay I lied, I want to upgrade the full suspension with Pedders, because I want to put it on road courses across America (road racer at heart). I guess I'm 102% American?
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:26 PM   #71
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In reality, I think what's really happening here is that you are trying to convince yourself that not modding is the way to go. Good luck with that.
Once again if you read this thread rather than jump to the end: I AM going to mod my car, but I'm not doing it for HP (because I realize that it's not enough to matter) so I am choosing my mods based on looks and sound or whatever. I've NEVER discouraged anyone from modding. I have encouraged personalization!

If I could change the title of the thread...I would. I would say: UNLESS YOU RACE, MOD YOUR CAR FOR PERSONALIZATION NOT THE PERFORMANCE GAIN. That way

It's sucks starting a thread where some people can't comprehend intent or read too much into things. Apparently some of us here have a lot of pent up issues and are on the defence and waiting to lash out. This is nuts.
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:59 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
I don't know if I'm not saying things clearly enough or if people reading too deeply into what I say, somehow feel guilty/paranoid on their spending decisions or are simply not reading this thread...BUT LET ME BE A LITTLE MORE CLEAR SO I QUIT FEELING THAT 'I DONT GET IT'

IF YOU ARE A GUY WHO IS INTO RACING YOU SHOULD GO OUT AND BUY LOTS OF MODS BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE HP IS VALUABLE AND IMPORTANT SO THAT YOU CAN BE SUPER FAST!!!!! I GET IT!!!!

THE REST OF US WHO ARE NOT FORMALLY RACING OUR CARS DON'T REALLY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE MINUSHA, BUT INSTEAD BUY THE FUN STUFF, MAKE IT LOOK/SOUND GOOD. DON'T WORRY IF IT DOESN'T GIVE THE EXTRA 2HP AS IT WON'T MATTER ANYWAY!!!
drtwo,
My friend, you are starting to sound obstinate, overly persistent and loud. According to accepted Internet protocol, when you type in uppercase (caps), it indicates that you are shouting and that's how you are now coming across. Calm down and don't get so easily offended. Maybe you aren't making your point clearly enough...or possibly you don't "get it", and maybe its a little of both.

By the way, if I drag raced another car and beat him by about 6-8 car lengths in the 1320, would you say that I thoroughly thrashed him? Of course, you would. That's the difference the few tenths (that you shrugged off) would make at 110 mph going through the lights.

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Old 10-23-2009, 08:28 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
Once again if you read this thread rather than jump to the end: I AM going to mod my car, but I'm not doing it for HP (because I realize that it's not enough to matter) so I am choosing my mods based on looks and sound or whatever. I've NEVER discouraged anyone from modding. I have encouraged personalization!

If I could change the title of the thread...I would. I would say: UNLESS YOU RACE, MOD YOUR CAR FOR PERSONALIZATION NOT THE PERFORMANCE GAIN. That way

It's sucks starting a thread where some people can't comprehend intent or read too much into things. Apparently some of us here have a lot of pent up issues and are on the defence and waiting to lash out. This is nuts.
The reason your having so much trouble getting your point across is simple,This is a Forum with NO Emotion, NO facial Expression, NO Hand waving,(I am Italian LOL) NO Tone of voice.

Modifications are a personal choice and must meet each persons personal expectations and satisfy each his own curiosity, demands, likes, etc.

What I got out of it is, Performance is not as important to you, as looks, so don't sweat the 2 hp.

Also you believe 95% of the guys on here feel just like you do.

I don't know about that LOL, I think guys hang around here to see how to, and what to do, to they're pride an joy, and what the results will be before laying down any cash.

All In all Great discussion and I expect it started because of my thread on Cold Air Kit Testing.

If I am wrong See Reason Above.

Just a tid bit of recent info, I just finished an L99 car, Simple bolt ons gave it more than LS3 Power, 370 RWHP 387 RWTQ, Headers cat back, CAI and Tune, Pretty darn good gain for the dollars spent.

Also this L99 car Just covered the quarter mile in 12.47 at 112 MPH today
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Old 10-23-2009, 09:33 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Just a tid bit of recent info, I just finished an L99 car, Simple bolt ons gave it more than LS3 Power, 370 RWHP 387 RWTQ, Headers cat back, CAI and Tune, Pretty darn good gain for the dollars spent.
Well, your RWTQ is more than a stock LS3. RWHP still just a bit shy.
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Old 10-23-2009, 09:59 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
The reason your having so much trouble getting your point across is simple,This is a Forum with NO Emotion, NO facial Expression, NO Hand waving,(I am Italian LOL) NO Tone of voice.

Modifications are a personal choice and must meet each persons personal expectations and satisfy each his own curiosity, demands, likes, etc.

Also this L99 car Just covered the quarter mile in 12.47 at 112 MPH today
You know you may be right. Trying to get my point across in writing seems so pointless since everybody comes here with their own biases and insecurities. My point didn't change, but it was getting misinterpreted I guess. I give up. Never mind. close the thread.
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:40 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
Once again if you read this thread rather than jump to the end: I AM going to mod my car, but I'm not doing it for HP (because I realize that it's not enough to matter) so I am choosing my mods based on looks and sound or whatever. I've NEVER discouraged anyone from modding. I have encouraged personalization!

If I could change the title of the thread...I would. I would say: UNLESS YOU RACE, MOD YOUR CAR FOR PERSONALIZATION NOT THE PERFORMANCE GAIN. That way

It's sucks starting a thread where some people can't comprehend intent or read too much into things. Apparently some of us here have a lot of pent up issues and are on the defence and waiting to lash out. This is nuts.
HELLO! I've read and followed the whole thread. I DON'T RACE. And I've modded my car...and the results are IMPRESSIVE. It makes daily driving even more of an experience. I'm sorry you don't get it. I'm sorry you don't understand. I'm sorry that your so bent on your opinion that you can't yank your head out of the sand.

If you said 'adding only a cold air intake will not make a major difference in the performance'...I would agree.

If you said 'adding only a cat back will not make a major difference in performance'...I would agree.

But you suggested that achieving a noticeable difference would require 'major surgery'...which is a subjective definition. you may consider what I have done 'major'...I do not.

You thread title was provocative...and by the first line of your post you clearly indicated that you were aware of that fact and that it was indeed intentional. Don't get your panties in a wad when you start getting the reaction that your were seeking.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:44 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS View Post
Well, your RWTQ is more than a stock LS3. RWHP still just a bit shy.
Auto sucks up an extra 5% RWHP so it is really making more power than the LS3 Stock.

So Now we have LS3 Auto Combo
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:42 AM   #78
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I don't know Jimmy Johnsons adds a 1/2lb of air to the right rear and damn near lapps the field.


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Old 10-24-2009, 10:50 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
I don't know if I'm not saying things clearly enough or if people reading too deeply into what I say, somehow feel guilty/paranoid on their spending decisions or are simply not reading this thread...BUT LET ME BE A LITTLE MORE CLEAR SO I QUIT FEELING THAT 'I DONT GET IT'

IF YOU ARE A GUY WHO IS INTO RACING YOU SHOULD GO OUT AND BUY LOTS OF MODS BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE HP IS VALUABLE AND IMPORTANT SO THAT YOU CAN BE SUPER FAST!!!!! I GET IT!!!!

THE REST OF US WHO ARE NOT FORMALLY RACING OUR CARS DON'T REALLY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE MINUSHA, BUT INSTEAD BUY THE FUN STUFF, MAKE IT LOOK/SOUND GOOD. DON'T WORRY IF IT DOESN'T GIVE THE EXTRA 2HP AS IT WON'T MATTER ANYWAY!!!
No matter how many different ways you put, it still matters anytime you add horsepower. What your saying is, it doesn't matter too you because your the type that needs to see a 200hp gain to make you feel like it's was worth it.
A lot of guys are happy just gaining a couple of tenths.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:31 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by drtwo View Post
Now that I have your attention:

IF YOU ROUTINELY RACE YOUR CAR THEN PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS THREAD OR REPLY AS IT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU!!!

A V6 2010 Camaro has around 304HP
An SS 2010 Camaro has 426HP
A 2009 Pontiac G8 v8 has 361HP

WHY do we spend big $$ on a small 8-10HP gain from a catback exhaust, cold air intake etc.. that will increase our overall HP FARRRRR less than the simple difference in HP gain from a V6 to a V8?

The Horsepower between the cars above varies more than 120HP and yet the performance of each of these cars varies only by tenths of seconds in a quarter mile and maybe less in a 0-60 run. (WITH OVER A HUNDRED HORSEPOWER IN DIFFERENCE)!!!

These modifications look good and sound good, but there seems to be no actualized difference in the cold air intake performance in real life. Although I VERY much appreciate the science and time to test the products!!! Great JOb!

I'd say buy your aftermarket stuff to personalize your car and enjoy it! Take Power gains with a grain of salt. Buy the CAI that looks cool to you and the exhaust that sounds good to you and don't worry about the numbers!!!

If you want real performance gains: you'll have to get a turbo or supercharger or some other extreme engine modification.

Any comments?!
Totally agree with you. I was thinking of getting a CAI, but why pay $75-$100 per HP gained. And as you said, you would not realize much if any perfomance increase.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:58 PM   #81
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hmmm. as people have stated before in this thread. it's about total investment not oh this CAI only gives you X hp. well you don't even know if it gives you that unless you dyno it before and after install. chances are it didn't even increase it that much right away. you need supporting modifications to achieve the max increase possible. oh well do and believe what you want. maybe some day you'll understand.
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:36 AM   #82
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First off any " performance gain " be it 1hp or 200 is a " real gain ". Don't belittle people for not buying a supercharger or turbo, and if you noticed you went against your own opinion by making that comparison.

Some people like to mod thier cars plain and simple. Some like to change the exhaust note, some like nitrous, some like putting 20's on thier car to be gangsta ( thanks GM /sigh ).

Personally I wouldn't want a sc or turbo, that screws my already piss poor gas mileage for my long trips. I do however like to let the engine breath better by changing the exhaust and intake some. To each thier own if you want to race serious do your thing, if ya want extra power but stay street legal do your thing, if ya want 22's and lambo doors with 200 extra pounds of stereo equipment do your thing.
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:57 PM   #83
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I read most of the posts but I might have missed the point I'm about to make. If so, I apologize for the repeat.

In my case, the CAI/canned tune I use is not all about HP, but about throttle response. The pull-back in power as you approach the red-line is gone (torque management), the throttle is now (not when the Ford computor says), the red-line is moved up a couple of hundred RPM (don't have to upshift then downshift again on the short straights), the blip is right away on heel and toe. Not the weak and flabby blip one gets without the tune; usually requiring two or three stabs to obtain the needed RPM for the downshift.

All in all it makes for a more enjoyable driving experience IMO. Well worth the cost, even if there is no added HP.

During the winter the CAI/tune comes off in case warranty work is needed.

Cheers.
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:36 PM   #84
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Ok i've read through the whole thing and it seems to me he has an anger towards the advertising of these small performance parts. In example they always have in BIG CAPITAL letters "ADDS 10 HP" etc.....(highlighting the performance gain) when realitically 10 hp is nothing to the common driver and would be un-noticealbe They sell these bolt on assesories making people believe that "Man that's going to make my car a butt load faster!!!" when realistically it won't even be noticable. So I think he's saying... don't fall into the hype of the advertising and buy these small HP parts with the mirrage that it's going to make you faster, you should by them because there cool and just that....That's my read of this thread. Thank you and good day sir!!!
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:23 PM   #85
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Ok i've read through the whole thing and it seems to me he has an anger towards the advertising of these small performance parts. In example they always have in BIG CAPITAL letters "ADDS 10 HP" etc.....(highlighting the performance gain) when realitically 10 hp is nothing to the common driver and would be un-noticealbe They sell these bolt on assesories making people believe that "Man that's going to make my car a butt load faster!!!" when realistically it won't even be noticable. So I think he's saying... don't fall into the hype of the advertising and buy these small HP parts with the mirrage that it's going to make you faster, you should by them because there cool and just that....That's my read of this thread. Thank you and good day sir!!!
Random q: how many hp do you have to gain to "feel" it?

I was under the impression every little bit helps. Whether I feel the difference or not from the driver's seat, 10 hp more IS faster.

"Buy them because they're cool?" What? I'm not dropping $2000 just so the 10% of the world that would actually care about my exhaust or CAI can go "Oh, cool!" There has to be something to show for it, or what's the point?

And what about the points brought up by Doc in another thread? If the exhaust is 50 pounds lighter than stock, and the engine reacts to cold air better, you get better mileage, right? So wouldn't it be worthwhile just for that? Eventually, wouldn't that pay back your $2K and then some if you were planning on keeping the car for 15 years or so?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm shoppin'!
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