GM bankruptcy!

[SSMUFF]

Please read!

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...02markets.aspx

I hope this doesn't effect the camaro!

[rolnslo]

So, GM needs some cash to make it through 2008-2009?

Start selling the Camaro next month instead of next year! The cash infusion from enthusiasts like all of us should help a bit. Keep dealers from gouging buyers on it and they'll sell more in less time.

[boxmonkeyracing]

way to go. . .release a report and people sale. . .doesn't actually mean GM is going to do it. . .or really should. but perception is what's killing GM now a days.

[Captain Awesome]

How about buying options and then writing a column to make them valuable? There oughta be a law...

[MerF]

I was just overhearing this on Fox news. Apparently GM shares hit $9.99...as low as they were in the 50's.

Yikes.

[fastball]

I hope Scott chimes in on this, because there is alot about car production I don't understand (obviously), but have some thoughts that may or may not be on target.

It seems to me that foreign automakers are more flexible and adept at making changes to production, product design, and chasis lines more quickly and for less money than GM can. We all know today the automotive market is global, not just North America anymore. GM has far more competitors than just Ford and Chrysler. To keep up with the ebb and flow of the market based on fuel costs and general economy, I keep seeing other companies ability to lower production and utilize flex lines to build more or less of different models on the same line. While GM has scaled back on slow sellers, I don't know if they can do it quick enough. At least as quickly as others. And I'm not specifically pointing out Honda and Toyota. But it just seems that GM still, despite the fact they have modern products, still go about making those products the same way they did in 1960.

How many of GM's assembly lines can produce full size trucks and small cars on the same line? And adjust accordingly almost instantaneously based on market conditions? All the while keeping quality consistent?

It's just something I've observed over the years and would like some input.

[chevydude26]

we need to drill for oil...and now....

the gas prices are stopping people from buying suv's and well vehicles in general...

and gm still sold the most out of all the car companies last quarter but the auto industry as a whole is down when toyota has a bigger drop than gm....

drill here drill now pay less!!!

the unions also kill american car companies as well

[fastball]

I agree - I'm all for drilling anywhere.

Seriously. I'll start digging a hole in Alaska myself!

[pinkcamaro10]

I heard that north and south dakota has tons of oil.. but they said that even if we started drilling now it would be 10 years before it affected anything.

i say the sooner the better, let's start now.

a life without suv's and V8's is no life at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by pinkcamaro10

I heard that north and south dakota has tons of oil.. but they said that even if we started drilling now it would be 10 years before it affected anything.

i say the sooner the better, let's start now.

a life without suv's and V8's is no life at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats just the opposition's excuse to keep us from drilling

the truth is that the speculators will see that there will be a ton of new supply coming in...considering we have more oil in our reserves than all of the middle east...and they will begin to start buying low and the price would come down in a matter of months...

strengthening the dollar would help as well...but...considering the housing market is kind of weak if you raise the interest rates you'll make the housing market worse...

but drilling is the most important thing as the weak dollar only affects the price of gas by like 70 cents and then the state and federal taxes that the government takes adds as much as 70 cents to the price per gallon

but drilling in my opinion would cut the price in half in a very short period of time...

besides saying we won't see the oil for 10 yrs and using it as an excuse for not doing it is like saying...don't go to school or college because you won't see the effects of it for years...

its a senseless argument made up by environmentalist marxists

[kanys]

Originally Posted by pinkcamaro10

I heard that north and south dakota has tons of oil.. but they said that even if we started drilling now it would be 10 years before it affected anything.

i say the sooner the better, let's start now.

a life without suv's and V8's is no life at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol well put.

[chevydude26]

the problem with the volt is that its going to be at the least 40,000 dollars...

out of the realm of affordability of the market that would be interested in saving at the pump...

not to mention that every 2 years you probably have to buy a 3000 dollar battery which totally negates the savings you would from not filling up...not to mention your higher electricity bill...

the only good thing is that if it sells enough they can begin to get economies of scale and begin to sell it at a much cheaper price...and implement the tech into their other more affordable vehicles

but we wouldn't even be having this problem if we had that oil ten years ago...eventually the market will be forced to look for alternatives but the government shouldn't force this change

[Captain Awesome]

Dump 1/4 of the U.S. Strategic Reserves on the market and the price will fall like a rock and the speculators will lose their shirts and will never again play betting games against the United States.

The reserves are held back for times of war, and if we declare war on speculators, this is a legitimate use of them!

[edbrick]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

the problem with the volt is that its going to be at the least 40,000 dollars...

out of the realm of affordability of the market that would be interested in saving at the pump...

not to mention that every 2 years you probably have to buy a 3000 dollar battery which totally negates the savings you would from not filling up...not to mention your higher electricity bill...

the only good thing is that if it sells enough they can begin to get economies of scale and begin to sell it at a much cheaper price...and implement the tech into their other more affordable vehicles

but we wouldn't even be having this problem if we had that oil ten years ago...eventually the market will be forced to look for alternatives but the
government shouldn't force this change

General motors requierments are that the battery should last 15 yrs. Nobody would purchase a vehicle that would require such an exspensive repair 3 yrs in and If we drilled for more oil we would still need more refining capacity. We need more refineries which isnt going to happen in this political climate.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by pinkcamaro10

I heard that north and south dakota has tons of oil.. but they said that even if we started drilling now it would be 10 years before it affected anything.

i say the sooner the better, let's start now.

a life without suv's and V8's is no life at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's liberal bunk. We can have oil up and runn'in in 3 yo 5 years. Heck, we sent a man to the moon in about 8 years and built an atomic bomb in about 3 to 4, you cant tell me if we start drilling right now we are going to have to wait 10 years for results

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by edbrick

General motors requierments are that the battery should last 15 yrs. Nobody would purchase a vehicle that would require such an exspensive repair 3 yrs in and If we drilled for more oil we would still need more refining capacity. We need more refineries which isnt going to happen in this political climate.

I was probably thinking of the 100,000 dollar electric car...

and refineries come with the whole drilling package...and nuclear power...

the dems right now have control of congress but if we continue to make an uproar and threaten to vote those marxists out they will do what the american people want

the dems want the price of oil to stay high because they think less use of fossil fuel is good for the environment which is total bunk

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by edbrick

General motors requierments are that the battery should last 15 yrs. Nobody would purchase a vehicle that would require such an exspensive repair 3 yrs in and If we drilled for more oil we would still need more refining capacity. We need more refineries which isnt going to happen in this political climate.

They will build new refineries if the people tell them to. People forget America belongs to us not the politicians, they do what we all tell them to do

[pinkcamaro10]

well that's just what i saw on the news! I cant prove them wrong... thats just what they said. I think it could be done a lot faster. Just imagine if for some reason we stopped getting oil from other countries. They would be drilling in a heartbeat over here.

[discoteka]

we just need to solve the problem.. and create alternate means of fuel already. drilling will just postpone it..IMO anyway

[DGthe3]

There is a lot of stuff here that can be a bit misleading. Price of oil and cost of oil are different things. The cost of oil is how much it costs to extract it and refine it, this doesn't change too much day to day, or month to month. The price of oil is determined by too many factors to list. Basically it combines supply, demand, and speculation on what those two will do in the near future. It probably includes greed too.

So, drilling for more oil won't reduce the cost of oil until the entire operation can come on line which will take years. Is 10 too many? probably. 5 sounds too short. But the act of announcing that the supply will increase - that will reduce the price immediately.

A similar disconnect between facts and reality happens on the stock market. People don't trade rationally, they trade to make money and to avoid losing money. The price of a stock reflects not on how the company is doing, but how people feel that they can make money by buying that particular stock (in this case GM) and selling it in the near future at a higher price. This relationship is based partially on fact, partially on the actions of others. The facts are what gets presented by the media, regardless of what reality may be. And so, when the media reports bad news prices go down. Good news and they go up. When they say that a company stock is going down and they may need to file for bankruptcy, well you can guess what investors will think then do.

And no, that is not merely my personal opinion on the matter. That is how computers are programed to trade. Search for keywords related to a company, and act (or at least advise). For GM, reports of "sales down 20%" is a giant flashing red light with a siren blazing. "Bankruptcy" is a loud speaker telling everyone to abandon ship. More or less.

Originally Posted by chevydude26

the dems right now have control of congress but if we continue to make an uproar and threaten to vote those marxists out they will do what the american people want

the dems want the price of oil to stay high because they think less use of fossil fuel is good for the environment which is total bunk

Couple things. First, while I don't follow American politics too closely, I am quite certain that the Democratic party is not Marxist or any form of communist for that matter. Secondly, as a concept communism is a good idea, and if people weren't greedy (which is a sin in christianity) it could work. Thridly, wasn't it the american people who voted them in in the first place? As I understand it, the majority of people are the ones who are supposed to get what they want in a democracy not the minority. Fourthly, do the intentions of the democrats matter as much as their results? if people use less fuel you won't have to import oil from people like Hugo Chavez. But I am going a bit off topic. If you wish to continue talking about politics, I would be glad to continue in another thread. But for now, please don't throgh out exadurations and generalizations about the politicians that your fellow citizens have voted into office.

[stovt001]

Speculators don't influence the price of oil or gas one penny because they don't actually take possession of the commodity before selling their futures.

Drilling for gas would take years and will pretty much entirely go to the Chinese and Indians anyway.

The fact is $4+ gas is changing America, and for the better. Our roads are less congested. Our air quality is better. We're commuting together. Small local businesses are getting an advantage over distant large companies. Most importantly, American businesses are developing new efficient and clean transportation and energy solutions in the greatest wave of innovation this country has seen in years. Bring on the $5 gas I say.

Fears about GM going bankrupt are far overblown, however. At the rate they're burning cash now they'll make it through 2009, and in 2010 the cost savings from the new union contracts kick in and a ton of fuel efficient new models hit the market. GM stocks are a fantastic value buy right now. When I sell my Olds a lot of that money is buying GM stock and it will make a nice down payment on my Camaro in a few years.

This is simply fear mongering to drive media viewership, support friends with short positions, and get B. Hussein Obama in the White House. Nothing more.

[shank0668]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Speculators don't influence the price of oil or gas one penny because they don't actually take possession of the commodity before selling their futures.

Drilling for gas would take years and will pretty much entirely go to the Chinese and Indians anyway.

The fact is $4+ gas is changing America, and for the better. Our roads are less congested. Our air quality is better. We're commuting together. Small local businesses are getting an advantage over distant large companies. Most importantly, American businesses are developing new efficient and clean transportation and energy solutions in the greatest wave of innovation this country has seen in years. Bring on the $5 gas I say.

Fears about GM going bankrupt are far overblown, however. At the rate they're burning cash now they'll make it through 2009, and in 2010 the cost savings from the new union contracts kick in and a ton of fuel efficient new models hit the market. GM stocks are a fantastic value buy right now. When I sell my Olds a lot of that money is buying GM stock and it will make a nice down payment on my Camaro in a few years.

This is simply fear mongering to drive media viewership, support friends with short positions, and get B. Hussein Obama in the White House. Nothing more.

do you ride a bike? $120 to fill up the hemi

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Speculators don't influence the price of oil or gas one penny because they don't actually take possession of the commodity before selling their futures.
thats why I was careful to use 'speculation' not 'speculators'. Why? The price of oil goes up with tension in the middle east, with hurricane season, and so on. this is all speculation because the real effects of these events are not known because they will not happen for some unknown period of time. and yet they influence the price.

Drilling for gas would take years and will pretty much entirely go to the Chinese and Indians anyway.

no comment

The fact is $4+ gas is changing America, and for the better. Our roads are less congested. Our air quality is better. We're commuting together. Small local businesses are getting an advantage over distant large companies. Most importantly, American businesses are developing new efficient and clean transportation and energy solutions in the greatest wave of innovation this country has seen in years. Bring on the $5 gas I say.

agreed

Fears about GM going bankrupt are far overblown, however. At the rate they're burning cash now they'll make it through 2009, and in 2010 the cost savings from the new union contracts kick in and a ton of fuel efficient new models hit the market. GM stocks are a fantastic value buy right now. .
when I say that people look at me like I'm crazy

This is simply fear mongering to drive media viewership, support friends with short positions, and get B. Hussein Obama in the White House. Nothing more.
my sentiments exactly

see bold.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Nickdago

They will build new refineries if the people tell them to. People forget America belongs to us not the politicians, they do what we all tell them to do

I heard someone saying that there were a whole bunch of refineries that were closed a while back for some reason. Why not reopen them?

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

the dems want the price of oil to stay high because they think less use of fossil fuel is good for the environment which is total bunk

Exactly..right up there with the comment from Al Gore who actually stated gas NEEDS to get up to 5 dollars so we will consider alternate fuels and stop relying on oil...

What a joke, we can all agree alternate fuels need to be researched and exercised, but making the rest of us suffer for what THEY see as a "positive" result is f---ing treason as far as I am concerned.