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Old 10-25-2009, 12:03 PM   #1
Roto-fab 1


 
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Roto-fab CAI dyno results

After seeing the results posted in the CAI evaluation, we immediately scheduled dyno time for our testing. A special thanks goes out to Bob and Brent at EPP for re-arranging their schedule so we could get in for testing so quickly. We spent the better half of Friday at EPP dyno testing our intake and the stock system. We didnít want to post comments without first simulating the test ourselves. We strive to build a great product and provide great customer service. We have many satisfied customers here on this forum- several of which own a chassis dyno!
On to our testing- the Roto-fab system was ran first as it was already on the vehicle. We then switched to the stock system, back to the Roto-fab, stock again, and finally back to our system. The samples listed below were ran with the hood closed. Coolant and oil temps were identical at the start of each run.
The results are very similar to numbers reported to us from individual customers on this forum as well as several tuners.

------------Max HP----------Max Tq.-------Avg HP----------Avg Tq
Stock--------340.9-----------356.8----------291--------------334
Roto-fab-----356.0-----------366.5----------302--------------345


The results show a peak gain of 15.1 HP and 9.7 ft/lb torque. Average HP gain was 11 and average torque gain was 11 ft/lbs. The numbers are lower for our testing because testing was done on a Mustang brand dyno and an L99 car. The important thing is the difference between the two. We will have the actual dyno sheets emailed to us on Monday.
The numbers are from last pull with the Roto-fab system initially on the car, then the first pull with the stock system. They were back to back runs. We later performed 50 MPH extended runs with each system to allow ďlearningĒ time. When we switched from the stock back to the Roto-fab system, gains were similar to those shown above.
We went on to test a variety of variables including air flow to the front of the car. This was very interesting because it clearly showed our system provided cooler air to the MAF as air flow to the front of the car was reduced. With an ambient temperature of 64 F, one fan feeding the grill area and a 7 minute ďdriveď on the dyno, here are the inlet temps:
Stock- 129 F
Roto-fab- 111 F
Obviously these are less than desirable intake temps which are caused by lack of air flow to the front of the vehicle. So why do I find this information interesting and important? When driving, we start out at 0 MPH, not 60 MPH! Most dyno testing is performed start to finish with a constant amount of air blowing on the front of the car.
This shows how effective our air box is compared to stock. By effectively sealing to the hood and pulling air from the stock location (as well as other openings which you can see with your air box removed) we are using several areas to pull cool air. In addition, our large box design has a ďreservoirĒ of air at itís disposal. And yes there is a duct behind your grill that feeds cool air straight into our air box. However, the stock box has only one small duct pointing towards this area. At lower speeds such as we were simulating, the stock box is apparently pulling air from the engine compartment because at low speeds itís the path of least resistance to itís one opening. Keep in mind the incoming air from the duct in the grill must change directionsÖand has a longer path As speed increases, the stock inlet through the grill flows more air which allows intake temps between the two systems to equalize. The numbers we saw arenít useful as we donít know what speed this was simulating. However, it is a good comparison which shows our system is superior to the stock box in terms of isolating from engine compartment heat. This is especially true at lower speeds. Itís an important and overlooked area that doesnít normally show up in dyno testing. This is what makes our system a true Cold Air Intake system!

We went on to test our stainless steel inlet tube against our plastic version. We thought this might be valuable since we sent only our plastic tube for testing while many early dyno numbers from our CAI were achieved with the metal version. The numbers didnít vary greatly, but the results were still extremely interesting and valuable. We found the plastic tube was consistently better until about 4000 RPM; however, the stainless steel tube picked up more from 4000-6000 RPM. There could be several reasons for this, so we will do more testing to see if we can optimize our design.

Our last bit of testing focused on variations of coolant and oil temperatures. At the time, we were looking for possibilities as to why our dyno results varied so greatly with the test results posted. We found that slight variations in temps were making huge power differences. BTW, this is a very obvious statement for anyone thatís been involved with dyno testing! This is especially true with modern GM engine management systems. Even with a great deal of effort, itís often difficult to keep consistent parameters while testing. Itís one of the reasons people always say ďdyno numbers will varyĒÖand they always do! If it was cut and dry, we wouldnít have debates over product comparisons and claims year after year, decade after decade.

Looking back on Tedís testing, our intake performed well in several areas. Our intake temps were among the lowest, fuel trims were in a good range and fit/instructions received positive comments. Obviously, the power numbers didnít look right to us, so I decided to call Ted today and talk with him about our findings as compared to what was posted on his test. One of the main topics I questioned was the knock values on his chart. They werenít consistent with what we were seeing on the dyno. I felt we had an edge over most intakes because of our intake air temps and some of our design features, yet we were loosing timing and ultimately power in the higher RPMs. We discussed some of the differences between the engine management systems of the LS3 equipped cars vs. the L99 vehicles. We will be dyno testing an LS3 car as soon as we make the arrangements. Like our test yesterday, it will involve only our intake and the stock intake. Much like our dyno session yesterday, our goal is to duplicate the testing as done in Tedís facility, compare our results and go from there. Ted was very knowledgeable and helpful in terms of sharing his test parameters and thoughts on the testing itself. I'm sure I will be talking with him again after our next dyno session. As many have said, this forum and the people on it are great assets to Camaro enthusiasts.

In regards to the CAI comparison test, I donít believe any test such as this performed at one facility should be viewed as the final and conclusive piece of evidence from which we are all judged by. Please keep in mind any tuner could have initiated a challenge such as this and the results easily could have been very different. Overall, I can honestly say we wouldnít have dropped everything to go dyno testing on Friday, so the CAI comparison did contribute to further testing on our part. Also, we learned a few things we wouldnít have otherwise...and we're not done yet!
Itís not our intention to split hairs on numbers and theories which most people donít care about. It is, however, our intention to provide a good quality bolt-on product that will satisfy our customers. We will continue our testing and address any areas where we see room for improvement.
FYI, we will be posting video of our dyno testing on youtube. Itís a good video for those that have asked about the sound of our intake. We will post a link on this thread when the video is loaded.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:34 PM   #2
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Those numbers fit in perfectly with where my personal car dyno'd with your intake on it.
You guys make an awesome CAI and the fit and finiah is second to none.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:41 PM   #3
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Very good! I will subscribe this post to see how the LS3 results turn out. I'm still waiting to get my intake probably by the end of the year, but it is between the Roto-Fab, C.A.I, and ADM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:04 PM   #4
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Can you post please the AFR on the stock air box and on your CAI, Please Please Please...
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:44 PM   #5
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Now that's what I'm talking about! You took that test as a call to improve your product and not as a slap in the face. Your sharing info and not hurling insults or accusing anyone of favoritism.

That's the sign of a quality company.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:10 PM   #6
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^ what he said! Bravo Roto-fab...
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springerpete View Post
Now that's what I'm talking about! You took that test as a call to improve your product and not as a slap in the face. Your sharing info and not hurling insults or accusing anyone of favoritism.

That's the sign of a quality company.


And a sign quality person.

To many times people on here get forum muscles and say things that should not be public.

waiting for further details

good luck with the testing !
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springerpete View Post
Now that's what I'm talking about! You took that test as a call to improve your product and not as a slap in the face. Your sharing info and not hurling insults or accusing anyone of favoritism.

That's the sign of a quality company.

Well said. Very classy Roto fab
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:38 PM   #9
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I like companys that is willing to go out there way to please all there customers that show quality too me. And that will make me buy from them anytime they have a product I need I am glad I got me a Roto-Fab and will recommend them to my friends or anyone.
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy_Boi View Post
I like companys that is willing to go out there way to please all there customers that show quality too me. And that will make me buy from them anytime they have a product I need I am glad I got me a Roto-Fab and will recommend them to my friends or anyone.
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red SS View Post
So you're saying that your STOCK L99 car dynoed 340 / 356 on a Mustang dyno, which is always on the low side? Thats seems a bit on the high side for a stock L99. In your opinion what would those numbers be on a superflow? 10% higher? If so that would make that Stock L99 car 376 / 391? (thats impossible). 5% higher - 357 / 374?( also impossible). Your first claim seems a bit on the high side for a stock L99 and then to say that your dyno is on the low side? Doesn't make sense. How can we believe your test numbers when your dyno numbers are skewed from the start. You CAI unit did well in the test. You should have left it at that. But its your company. Continued success with your products. They seem to be very good.
I could have chosen my words more carefully. The main point isn't even the dyno- its the L99. I don't want to assume everyone knows the power differences between the two. In other words, it wouldn't be accurate to compare our dyno numbers with Ted's numbers.
The numbers we posted for each intake were used because the pulls were performed with the same parameters...and these are the results. We could run the same car on another dyno and achieve different numbers. It's still comparing "apples to apples" though.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:50 AM   #12
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Extremely satisfied!

I've had my R-F CAI installed for about 3-4 weeks and have been very happy with both the unit itself and the support from Roto-Fab. I've had a few PM's with R-F and they have promptly responded to my inquiries and have made me feel more comfortable with thier product. Whether it 5 or 15 HP it has provided a very noticable gain in acceleration and a throaty growl to boot.

To now see how they have responded to Teds test results proves even more to me that they are dedicated to providing a quality product and customer service to back it up.

Bravo Rot-Fab, I proudly show off my CAI every chance I get.
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:56 AM   #13
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i own a chasis dyno, and did three baseline runs on my LS3. i also have a roto-fab CAI, and no other mods at all yet. i performed three more runs with this intake, several days later. note, the ambient temperature and relative humidity were within 5 degrees of the baseline runs, and of course the same oil and coolant temps, same gear.

i found the IATs with the stock intake to be between 120-135 degrees during testing, one fan in front of the car. the roto fab was at all times at least 10 degrees or more less than the stock airbox temps. like said above, at idle and low RPM the two IATs were similar, but as the car started drawing more air the temps dropped noticably further than the stock setup.

i have no reason to falsely claim power for this system... i dont sell them, i didnt get mine for free. im just posting accurate results to help better discuss the actual improvement of an aftermarket intake system on the camaro. i did the dyno runs for my personal knowledge (but figured id share seeing how big of discussions have risen from these CAI testings), and will do at least three baseline runs for each product i install. i saw consistant gains, in between what ted and rotofab saw. i feel they both are accurate, and dont understand why there is so much critizism over the different results.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleyperformance View Post
i own a chasis dyno, and did three baseline runs on my LS3. i also have a roto-fab CAI, and no other mods at all yet. i performed three more runs with this intake, several days later. note, the ambient temperature and relative humidity were within 5 degrees of the baseline runs, and of course the same oil and coolant temps, same gear.

i found the IATs with the stock intake to be between 120-135 degrees during testing, one fan in front of the car. the roto fab was at all times at least 10 degrees or more less than the stock airbox temps. like said above, at idle and low RPM the two IATs were similar, but as the car started drawing more air the temps dropped noticably further than the stock setup.

i have no reason to falsely claim power for this system... i dont sell them, i didnt get mine for free. im just posting accurate results to help better discuss the actual improvement of an aftermarket intake system on the camaro. i did the dyno runs for my personal knowledge (but figured id share seeing how big of discussions have risen from these CAI testings), and will do at least three baseline runs for each product i install. i saw consistant gains, in between what ted and rotofab saw. i feel they both are accurate, and dont understand why there is so much critizism over the different results.
I don't understand it either, the explanations from Ted and Mike have been understandable and I think you are right that each of the tests are accurate given the conditions, testing equipment etc. I think there are some who would argue 2+2=4...Thanks for the info.
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