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Old 07-03-2008, 09:41 PM   #1
Myka
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E85 Compatibility

I'm wondering what anyone's guess or input would be on this possibility. I think it would make the most sense for the 3.6 DI sense it has a high comp ratio. E85 would not only make more power for the 11.3:1, but it would also make it a more efficient fuel. Which I know is important to people because I hear people complain all the time about the drop in fuel economy. E85 is 2.99 here in SW Missouri. So, it would be nice to be able to fill up on it. Also, there are tax incentives for buying a Flex vehicle and for buying a certain amount of the fuel in a year.

Also, consider how much power could be made on a supercharged V8 version.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:45 PM   #2
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I was thinking this would be a great idea for ALL Camaros. Something to stick it to the "you're a gas hog owner" crybabies. It makes perfect sense in this era for them to make the car flex-fuel.

Does this ability cost a lot extra or is it a small expense? Seems like it's just a different material for the fuel system and some computer tweaks and maybe a sensor to monitor the octane of the fuel.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:00 PM   #3
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I was thinking this would be a great idea for ALL Camaros. Something to stick it to the "you're a gas hog owner" crybabies. It makes perfect sense in this era for them to make the car flex-fuel.

Does this ability cost a lot extra or is it a small expense? Seems like it's just a different material for the fuel system and some computer tweaks and maybe a sensor to monitor the octane of the fuel.
I believe that's exactly what it involves. Teflon and stainless steel for the fuel lines and rails. Then, there is an alcohol sensor to send the message to the ECU. The more cars that are produced like this, the more cost efficient it should be.
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Old 07-04-2008, 01:50 AM   #4
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GM is a leader in the automotive industry...and it wouldn't suprise me if they began a new trend in the musclecar/sports car area w/ E85. I haven't seen any E85 pumps around my area, but would gladly accept running it in my Camaro.
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Old 07-04-2008, 01:28 PM   #5
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I haven't seen any E85 pumps around my area, but would gladly accept running it in my Camaro.
No pumps here yet either. I'll drive a car that burns corn.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:08 PM   #6
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I found it really strange that there were no pumps in TX and especially strange if there are none in OK. So, I looked up a station locator and found this:
http://www.e85refueling.com/

It may just be that they are not in your immediate area yet. On that site you can type in your zip to get a specific location.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:00 PM   #7
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only problem is these biofuels are the cause of rising food prices all over the world...so i don't see production of e 85 lasting
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:04 PM   #8
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only problem is these biofuels are the cause of rising food prices all over the world...so i don't see production of e 85 lasting
You're mixing up cause and effect. Increased energy prices cause both the rising food prices and the popularity of biofuels. While corn is NOT the best choice for making biofuels, it is a myth that corn prices rising from biofuels are the cause of increased food prices.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:14 PM   #9
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You're mixing up cause and effect. Increased energy prices cause both the rising food prices and the popularity of biofuels. While corn is NOT the best choice for making biofuels, it is a myth that corn prices rising from biofuels are the cause of increased food prices.
Actually it is no myth. Food prices have risen dramatically since we started using our crops to make fuel and will continue to strech our food supplies until we develop a way to make ethanol without using our food crops. It is no coincidence that food prices have risen with the demand of corn for ethonal no matter what the politicians try to tell you. Corn is a basic staple around the world not only for people but for our livestock as well. And while energy costs as well as weather play a part in food prices do not think for one minute that using our food crops and land to grow gas is not effecting your food prices.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:49 PM   #10
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I'd love an E85 compatible Camaro, but I'll buy it either way.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:09 PM   #11
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Actually it is no myth. Food prices have risen dramatically since we started using our crops to make fuel and will continue to strech our food supplies until we develop a way to make ethanol without using our food crops. It is no coincidence that food prices have risen with the demand of corn for ethonal no matter what the politicians try to tell you. Corn is a basic staple around the world not only for people but for our livestock as well. And while energy costs as well as weather play a part in food prices do not think for one minute that using our food crops and land to grow gas is not effecting your food prices.
What do you suggest we do? I'm for making E85,and other alternative fuels, In fact I will buy a volt for my commuting, but I don't want to have food sky rocket either. Can't we just increase corn production? I know we need more land, but if my brother in-law can grow stuff in his room using hydropnics, can't we do the same thing in large plants or wearhouses? I mean we put chemicals in vegetables already, can't we just make special corn on steroid that's made just for making E85? For know I think we have to drill. Some one said something about everyone will just have to stop driving gas guzzlers and SUVs. Even if we stop driving SUVs and gas guzzlers,(I dare some idiot liberal like Al Gore to tell me to stop driving my Camaro), That not even a 20% of consumption. We have to make big semi-trucks efficient as well, not to mention commercial airplanes, commercial transportation, cargo ships, and the list goes on. We cannot stifle our American auto industry including ford and Chrysler. Oh, by the way, other German, Italian, British, and Japanese auto manufacturers are losing mony too because we are not buying their cars. The whole world is in this sh*t too.

I dare some one to tell me I can't buy this car or question my priorities. I'm for the American economy and the American way! I want to have my Camaro and fill her up and not have to think twice about how much it costs. I want to enjoy the spoils of my success.

On a happier note, everybody going to buy some stock in GM on monday? I hear we can get it for $7. I think that should boost the moral.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:26 PM   #12
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Actually it is no myth. Food prices have risen dramatically since we started using our crops to make fuel and will continue to strech our food supplies until we develop a way to make ethanol without using our food crops. It is no coincidence that food prices have risen with the demand of corn for ethonal no matter what the politicians try to tell you. Corn is a basic staple around the world not only for people but for our livestock as well. And while energy costs as well as weather play a part in food prices do not think for one minute that using our food crops and land to grow gas is not effecting your food prices.
That simplistic view would make it nice and easy to place blame, but that's not how it is. Energy prices are the problem.

I agree that politicians are full of crap, but they're the ones blaming biofuel for rising food prices. I agree that it's no coincidence -- it is, as I said, that energy prices cause BOTH food price rise AND production of biofuels...so of course biofuel production and food price have risen with a strong correlation.

Ever heard of farm subsidies? The government pays farmers to NOT produce crops. Why not let them farm, which is what they want to do anyway?

I have it straight from the farmer's mouth on a truck forum; he reports that corn prices (that he gets paid) just have not risen much at all (and I'll note that when you go to the grocery store to buy fresh corn on the cob, it's nearly the same price it's always been). The increase is not about the supply of corn, it's about the energy used to process it (and all other foods).

http://www.foodandfuelamerica.com/20...t-of-food.html says this:
Quote:
Corn prices have little effect on the cost of food. Only 19 cents of every dollar spent on food goes back to the farm, and corn is just a fraction of that 19 cents.

More than 80 cents goes to labor, transportation, energy, etc. Americans who are upset about prices should point their fingers at the effect of a 29-percent increase in energy costs in 2007.

That gobbled up more of the family budget than the 4.8 percent rise in food prices - only slightly above the general inflation rate.

[...]

For example, at current corn prices, the corn to produce a gallon of milk contributes just 13 cents to the price.
Anyway, corn is NOT the best choice for making biofuel, especially when you consider that they don't even use the whole plant. They're just using the kernel, and discarding the rest as waste. They could use more of the waste, or even better, they could use plants that are more efficient at producing fuel. There's loads of them, plants that can grow in each climate/region.

Best yet would be to harvest as much of the waste stream as possible; there's loads of ways to do this and they should all be in use. There's a company making fuel from algae grown on raw sewage; it doesn't take much energy input at all, they harvest the algae to make into fuel, and what's left is water nearly clean enough to irrigate crops. There's a few companies making biofuel from slaughterhouse waste. It is reasonable to make fuel from discarded tires, even. There's LOADS of places to get material for ethanol/[bio]diesel fuels, and it's not unreasonable to assemble the lot of them into a pretty decent sized supply -- maybe nowhere near enough for everything, but certainly enough to make a big difference.
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she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:00 PM   #13
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its not a myth its common freakin sense...

when you divert 30% of the corn supply away from food production...econ 101 tells you the price is going to go up because your straining the supply

i'm sice of these environmentalists and their liberal policies that just don't work and actually end up making evrything worse...
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:21 PM   #14
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You're not straining the supply when you had far too much supply before. The price of corn hasn't gone up much, and its effect on general food prices is just not much to begin with. All the energy that goes into processing, producing, and distributing food, OTOH, has gotten way more expensive.
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:28 PM   #15
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You're not straining the supply when you had far too much supply before. The price of corn hasn't gone up much, and its effect on general food prices is just not much to begin with. All the energy that goes into processing, producing, and distributing food, OTOH, has gotten way more expensive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...enewableenergy


"Biofuels have forced global food prices up by 75% - far more than previously estimated - according to a confidential World Bank report obtained by the Guardian"

what were you saying?
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:52 PM   #16
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I'm saying that I trust actual farmers and the price I actually pay for corn when determining that corn prices aren't up that much, and that I trust math when determining that this stuff just can't have that much effect on the price of my pizza (and that the price of energy does have that much effect). What I don't trust is The Guardian's website telling me something that doesn't add up.

I don't really care where my fuel comes from, I just want to make sure, if Chicken Little is right and dinosaur juice is running out, that I'll still be able to drive internal combustion powered cars...and that blame is placed properly on energy prices. The sillyness about biofuels causing the rise in food prices is a combination of paranoia with smoke-and-mirrors design to lure your attention away from the real problem. Think about it for yourself, do the math, consider how food is made, ask farmers, don't just believe what big media tells you to believe.
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she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:09 PM   #17
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I'm saying that I trust actual farmers and the price I actually pay for corn when determining that corn prices aren't up that much, and that I trust math when determining that this stuff just can't have that much effect on the price of my pizza (and that the price of energy does have that much effect). What I don't trust is The Guardian's website telling me something that doesn't add up.

I don't really care where my fuel comes from, I just want to make sure, if Chicken Little is right and dinosaur juice is running out, that I'll still be able to drive internal combustion powered cars...and that blame is placed properly on energy prices. The sillyness about biofuels causing the rise in food prices is a combination of paranoia with smoke-and-mirrors design to lure your attention away from the real problem. Think about it for yourself, do the math, consider how food is made, ask farmers, don't just believe what big media tells you to believe.
the gaurdian is just reporting it...the leaked info comes from a world bank and the most trusted economists in the world who actually researched all the data

big media is trying to cover the fact up that biofuels cause the price of food to go up...they are in the bag with all the wacko environmentalists

and oil is not running out...we've got more oil here in america than all of the middle east...

but come on common sense when you divert so much of your supply price goes up...how is this not common sense??
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:00 AM   #18
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I would love to see the Camaro's all be able to run off of E85, but in case GM does not decide to go in that direction, there are still options.

http://flextek.com/

And if you don't have any E85 pumps near you, you could always just get an E100 pump of your own, and blend the rest yourself...

http://www.efuel100.com/default.aspx
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:54 AM   #19
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big media is trying to cover the fact up that biofuels cause the price of food to go up...they are in the bag with all the wacko environmentalists
I just haven't seen it. Maybe we're looking at different media. Then again, the big media link you posted supported your point, not mine.

Quote:
and oil is not running out...we've got more oil here in america than all of the middle east...
I hope you're right. If so, then it really won't matter what alternative fuel technology we come up with, I'll still get to drive what I want.

Quote:
but come on common sense when you divert so much of your supply price goes up...how is this not common sense??
Sure, but I have talked directly to the suppliers, and we're NOT diverting so much of the supply.
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she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:15 AM   #20
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GM is a leader in the automotive industry...and it wouldn't suprise me if they began a new trend in the musclecar/sports car area w/ E85. I haven't seen any E85 pumps around my area, but would gladly accept running it in my Camaro.
There are some in the Houston area. It's not really worth it for a daily driver. It costs a little less but the MPG is a lot worse.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:20 AM   #21
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Well, the E85 option when building a car through GM Dealerworld, the cost difference in a car that has Flex Fuel and one that does not is only like $8.00 and change. Also, for those of you who don't know, corn is not the only product that we can make ethanol from. Sugar works as well. Another fun fact is that while you lose 2-3mpg when burning ethanol, the E85 actually burns at a higher octane rating than premium gas and therefore makes your engine perform better all around.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:45 AM   #22
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I found it really strange that there were no pumps in TX and especially strange if there are none in OK. So, I looked up a station locator and found this:
http://www.e85refueling.com/

It may just be that they are not in your immediate area yet. On that site you can type in your zip to get a specific location.
Good link, nothing nearby yet, but it looks like they're getting better. bio-Diesel blend is getting very popular in certain areas of the country. I've seen low as 5% blend, hi as 20% blend.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:46 AM   #23
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THOUGHT FOR THE DAY


OPEC sells oil for $136.00 a barrel.
OPEC nations buy U.S. grain at $7.00 a bushel.
Solution: Sell grain for $136.00 a bushel.
Can't buy it? Tough! Eat your oil!
Ought to go well with a nice thick grilled filet of camel ass!!!
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:54 AM   #24
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There are some in the Houston area. It's not really worth it for a daily driver. It costs a little less but the MPG is a lot worse.
Is that in a proper flex-fuel vehicle that can make use of the higher octane, or a basic gas vehicle?

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corn is not the only product that we can make ethanol from. Sugar works as well.
Wrong. Sugar cane and sugar beets (which grow well where sugar cane won't) dont' merely work "as well", they work far better. Also, nearly ANY biomatter (salughterhouse trimmings, compost, whatever) can be used, and IMO much of the waste stream should be used in addition to crops.

As long as I can keep driving internal combustion powered vehicles, I don't really mind how the fuel is made.
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:59 AM   #25
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THOUGHT FOR THE DAY


OPEC sells oil for $136.00 a barrel.
OPEC nations buy U.S. grain at $7.00 a bushel.
Solution: Sell grain for $136.00 a bushel.
Can't buy it? Tough! Eat your oil!
Ought to go well with a nice thick grilled filet of camel ass!!!

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