Forged btm end for the SS? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Cessna510 · 07-07-2008, 02:33 PM

Ok, so I know if your running and turbo or s\c setup having a forged btm end is vital to support big boost numbers.Any chance we'll be able to get a SS with a forged btm end? I assume that the z28 will have it....right?

454lsxss · 07-07-2008, 02:46 PM

In my opion, z28 top dog will either have 5-6 pounds boost and no need for forged internals..possibly an even higher top end model with forged and 10 pounds boost?? But to answer your other question I don't think forged internals will be offered for a base model v8 with forged internals...there is no need on a N/A stock motor for them and GM is doing everything they can to pinch pennies here.

Cessna510 · 07-07-2008, 02:55 PM

Kinda what I was thinking, but it would be a great foundation for those of us who want a base v8 with s\c dreams.I'd be all over it if it was a base option!

Cessna510 · 07-07-2008, 02:58 PM

Not a ford guy, but didn't the last body style cobras have forged internals and come in well under 40g's?

454lsxss · 07-07-2008, 05:59 PM

The 03'ish year came with forged internals on a 4.6 block. They were able to put in some cheapish internals due to how thick the cylinder walls of the 4.6 are. My friend has one of these with stock internals and has custom Whipple charger on it. Makes 650 to the wheel with new tranny, charger, bolt ons, etc. The stock internals can't go above 19ish pounds boost which is what he is pushing. The only thing that throws me for a spin is the fact that the most they can get out of a v8 with 19lbs boost is 650...guess we can chalk that one up to Ford's primitave tiny v8...[not a ford guy either just like to know about my competition]

Cessna510 · 07-07-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 454lsxss

not a ford guy either just like to know about my competition]

Very true, ok so i'll give up my factory forged internals dream I guess a nice cam and bolt-ons it is.

*radz28* · 07-08-2008, 09:30 AM

I don't think the SS will come with forged internals because the LS3 in 'Vettes do not. I believe that if there is a higher performance model, it will follow closely in design to an LSA. It would be nice to have the forged pistons the LS9 has, but OH WELL.

z28collection · 07-08-2008, 10:49 AM

the LS bottom end with its six bolt mains is pretty strong. ive heard of people running as much as a 200 shot of nitrous on stock bottom end, and a fair amount of boost as well so im not worried.

*CamaroSpike23* · 07-08-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28collection

the LS bottom end with its six bolt mains is pretty strong. ive heard of people running as much as a 200 shot of nitrous on stock bottom end, and a fair amount of boost as well so im not worried.

the 6 bolt mains dont mean squat when you blow a hole thru the piston

*radz28* · 07-08-2008, 03:13 PM

Both prior posts make sense. I know a guy whose running an MS3 in a otherwise stock longblock with a 150-shot and is planning on a 200. If it weren't for his 10-bolt finally taking a dump (and causing the stock 4L60E to break) his bottom end would've been fine. He has it tuned really well though, so I'm sure that helps, but it's my understanding the crank and rods (not so much the rod bolts on early LS1s) are pretty stout and even the pistons will put up with some abuse.

The_Stache · 07-08-2008, 05:28 PM

Not to put a fine point on it for the base V8 (whatever its called)...

No.

For the top dog.

Nobody outside gm has any real info to indicate one way or the other.

gunslinger · 07-08-2008, 10:16 PM

I really think that the top dog Camaro will have a cheaper (non-forged) version of the LS9, known as the LSA.

It keeps us from making 700HP in a $40K car, but keeps the cost around $40,000 instead of $50,000...

I think I can get a set of forged pistons for around $800 from any reputible manufacturer and be $9,000 ahead, with a little bit of time and elbow grease.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a forged bottom end from the factory, but no one can dispute how pricy the top-end model will be and with the price of gas, any savings on MSRP can help to bring in more sales.

*GTAHVIT* · 07-08-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger

I really think that the top dog Camaro will have a cheaper (non-forged) version of the LS9, known as the LSA.

It keeps us from making 700HP in a $40K car, but keeps the cost around $40,000 instead of $50,000...

I think I can get a set of forged pistons for around $800 from any reputible manufacturer and be $9,000 ahead, with a little bit of time and elbow grease.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a forged bottom end from the factory, but no one can dispute how pricy the top-end model will be and with the price of gas, any savings on MSRP can help to bring in more sales.

I'm with you on all points. Save one: The CTS - V with the LSA is a $60K car. Just FYI.

gunslinger · 07-09-2008, 07:45 PM

Yeah it is 60K, but that is a Cadillac, with all the extra goodies and weight to go with it...

So I see the Z28 priced around 40-42K...

*CamaroSpike23* · 07-09-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger

So I see the Z28 priced around 40-42K...

who said that? we've speculated, but there are no confirmed prices yet. hell, there's no confirmed Z28

gunslinger · 07-10-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

who said that? we've speculated, but there are no confirmed prices yet. hell, there's no confirmed Z28

It just my guess. I am guessing like everyone else.

My thinking is that a base C6 is in the range of 45-50K and I think it would be hard to sell a Camaro over a Corvette when they have similar performance characteristics.

Also I think GM will price the Top Dog Camaro under the current GT500...

The Z28 may not be confirmed, but I think GM is not going to let Mustang win the HP race.

Granted, with 91 Octane California gas at $4.80/gal, there may not be a market for a 550HP S/C Camaro, but I think GM has already done most of the leg work with the LS9 and LSA to be able to offer a Z28 Camaro with minimal extra development costs.

Xanthos · 07-10-2008, 09:22 PM

The magic eight ball says "Outlook not so good" when asked about forged internals. Its been a bit cynical today though, so chances my improve if I ask it again tomorrow.
- Xanthos

Cessna510 · 07-11-2008, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

The magic eight ball says "Outlook not so good" when asked about forged internals. Its been a bit cynical today though, so chances my improve if I ask it again tomorrow.
- Xanthos

LOL! like your avatar, reminds me of a longhorn

Xanthos · 07-11-2008, 08:52 AM

Why thank you - I made it myself. Had a wave of inspiration, or something like that.
- Xanthos

greysteel_M6 · 07-22-2008, 08:19 PM

I agree, the prospects for a forged bottom are very unlikely, but forged cranks are unnecessary. Stock cranks on LS engines are good to, at or over 1khp. The s/c version will more than likely get the LS9, if that's true, then forged rods are squared away, and maybe GM will step it up to forged pistons to complete the package.

Mythic · 07-22-2008, 10:44 PM

due to cost in the LS9, I wouldn't hold out for an LS9 powered Camaro.
My hopes are pinned to the LSA. We got 1 engine from the Caddy. Now give us the other one . Oh yean, and the manual Caddy's 3.73 drive ratio.
Considering the work that went into the SS (have you seen the rear axle assembly?) I don't see a lot of work to get the LSA into the Camaro.
It uses the same base block adds a blower and a few trinkets. The SS and the CTS-V already have the smae manual transmission. The Caddy just has some nicely aggressive gears.
the LS3 weighs in at 415lbs. I cant see the LSA weighing over 475lbs (the LS7 is 440lbs) assuming a few minor suspension tweaks the LSA powered beast could still be under 4000lbs 3860+60+30(tweaks) 3950lbs that 7.2lb/hp I'd take that and run.

OOOO http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...009a/09car.htm

07-07-2008, 02:33 PM	#1
Cessna510 Gm loyalist Drives: 04 z71 tahoe\99 SS m6 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baxter Springs Ks Posts: 362	Forged btm end for the SS? Ok, so I know if your running and turbo or s\c setup having a forged btm end is vital to support big boost numbers.Any chance we'll be able to get a SS with a forged btm end? I assume that the z28 will have it....right?

07-08-2008, 09:30 AM	#7
radz28 Petro-sexual Drives: Ultra-Grin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia Posts: 12,951 View My Garage	I don't think the SS will come with forged internals because the LS3 in 'Vettes do not. I believe that if there is a higher performance model, it will follow closely in design to an LSA. It would be nice to have the forged pistons the LS9 has, but OH WELL. __________________ "...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather

07-08-2008, 10:49 AM	#8
z28collection waiting for 5th gen Drives: 99 z28 6 speed, 81 z28 auto Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: chapin s.c. Posts: 195	ls bottom end the LS bottom end with its six bolt mains is pretty strong. ive heard of people running as much as a 200 shot of nitrous on stock bottom end, and a fair amount of boost as well so im not worried. __________________ speed kills-drive a ford and live forever http://www.myspace.com/ashleyjfowlkes

07-08-2008, 03:13 PM	#10
radz28 Petro-sexual Drives: Ultra-Grin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia Posts: 12,951 View My Garage	Both prior posts make sense. I know a guy whose running an MS3 in a otherwise stock longblock with a 150-shot and is planning on a 200. If it weren't for his 10-bolt finally taking a dump (and causing the stock 4L60E to break) his bottom end would've been fine. He has it tuned really well though, so I'm sure that helps, but it's my understanding the crank and rods (not so much the rod bolts on early LS1s) are pretty stout and even the pistons will put up with some abuse. __________________ "...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather

07-08-2008, 05:28 PM	#11
The_Stache SoCal Race Team #13 Drives: 2010 1SS:RS:LS3:SW Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,634 View My Garage	Not to put a fine point on it for the base V8 (whatever its called)... No. For the top dog. Nobody outside gm has any real info to indicate one way or the other. __________________ A.K.A - Diarmadhi (old handle) - So much to do.. So little money

07-07-2008, 02:46 PM	#2
454lsxss Drives: 07 Scion tC. for now... Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 122	In my opion, z28 top dog will either have 5-6 pounds boost and no need for forged internals..possibly an even higher top end model with forged and 10 pounds boost?? But to answer your other question I don't think forged internals will be offered for a base model v8 with forged internals...there is no need on a N/A stock motor for them and GM is doing everything they can to pinch pennies here.

07-07-2008, 02:55 PM	#3
Cessna510 Gm loyalist Drives: 04 z71 tahoe\99 SS m6 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baxter Springs Ks Posts: 362	Kinda what I was thinking, but it would be a great foundation for those of us who want a base v8 with s\c dreams.I'd be all over it if it was a base option!

07-07-2008, 02:58 PM	#4
Cessna510 Gm loyalist Drives: 04 z71 tahoe\99 SS m6 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baxter Springs Ks Posts: 362	Not a ford guy, but didn't the last body style cobras have forged internals and come in well under 40g's?

07-07-2008, 05:59 PM	#5
454lsxss Drives: 07 Scion tC. for now... Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 122	The 03'ish year came with forged internals on a 4.6 block. They were able to put in some cheapish internals due to how thick the cylinder walls of the 4.6 are. My friend has one of these with stock internals and has custom Whipple charger on it. Makes 650 to the wheel with new tranny, charger, bolt ons, etc. The stock internals can't go above 19ish pounds boost which is what he is pushing. The only thing that throws me for a spin is the fact that the most they can get out of a v8 with 19lbs boost is 650...guess we can chalk that one up to Ford's primitave tiny v8...[not a ford guy either just like to know about my competition]

07-08-2008, 10:16 PM	#12
gunslinger Drives: 1998 Z28 M6 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lake Forest, CA Posts: 254	I really think that the top dog Camaro will have a cheaper (non-forged) version of the LS9, known as the LSA. It keeps us from making 700HP in a $40K car, but keeps the cost around $40,000 instead of $50,000... I think I can get a set of forged pistons for around $800 from any reputible manufacturer and be $9,000 ahead, with a little bit of time and elbow grease. Don't get me wrong, I would love a forged bottom end from the factory, but no one can dispute how pricy the top-end model will be and with the price of gas, any savings on MSRP can help to bring in more sales.

07-09-2008, 07:45 PM	#14
gunslinger Drives: 1998 Z28 M6 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lake Forest, CA Posts: 254	Yeah it is 60K, but that is a Cadillac, with all the extra goodies and weight to go with it... So I see the Z28 priced around 40-42K...

07-10-2008, 09:22 PM	#17
Xanthos Almost-Original Postwhore Drives: Stick Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 12,664 View My Garage	The magic eight ball says "Outlook not so good" when asked about forged internals. Its been a bit cynical today though, so chances my improve if I ask it again tomorrow. - Xanthos __________________ 1993 Z28 - LT1/M6 Current and Future Modifications

07-11-2008, 08:52 AM	#19
Xanthos Almost-Original Postwhore Drives: Stick Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 12,664 View My Garage	Why thank you - I made it myself. Had a wave of inspiration, or something like that. - Xanthos __________________ 1993 Z28 - LT1/M6 Current and Future Modifications

07-22-2008, 08:19 PM	#20
greysteel_M6 Drives: 00' SS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 29	I agree, the prospects for a forged bottom are very unlikely, but forged cranks are unnecessary. Stock cranks on LS engines are good to, at or over 1khp. The s/c version will more than likely get the LS9, if that's true, then forged rods are squared away, and maybe GM will step it up to forged pistons to complete the package.

07-22-2008, 10:44 PM	#21
Mythic Drives: '03 Monte Carlo SS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: VaBeach VA Posts: 349	due to cost in the LS9, I wouldn't hold out for an LS9 powered Camaro. My hopes are pinned to the LSA. We got 1 engine from the Caddy. Now give us the other one . Oh yean, and the manual Caddy's 3.73 drive ratio. Considering the work that went into the SS (have you seen the rear axle assembly?) I don't see a lot of work to get the LSA into the Camaro. It uses the same base block adds a blower and a few trinkets. The SS and the CTS-V already have the smae manual transmission. The Caddy just has some nicely aggressive gears. the LS3 weighs in at 415lbs. I cant see the LSA weighing over 475lbs (the LS7 is 440lbs) assuming a few minor suspension tweaks the LSA powered beast could still be under 4000lbs 3860+60+30(tweaks) 3950lbs that 7.2lb/hp I'd take that and run. OOOO http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...009a/09car.htm Last edited by Mythic; 07-22-2008 at 10:59 PM.